When you mention 'Timmy' it immediately reminded me of Tiny Tim in The Christmas Carol. The irony, of an employer being so rich (Scrooge) and the the other being so poor. But what can I say, it’s the American Way to support corporate greed.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Glasgow Apple Store Employees to Become First UK Branch to Unionize
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I couldn't disagree more. What you negotiate is your business and yours alone. Granted if you want to spout off about your compensation that is your business but if you happen to warrant a better package than your coworkers then you are causing strife. Just because you deserved a higher rate doesn't mean they did and management will rightly take notice to you disrupting the team.
I don't know what to do with this.... if you have more experience, education, skills, etc than a coworker do you not deserve better compensation? If you do not promote yourself to management who will? If you don't fight for you no one will.... unless of course you want to pay a union to do it for you. Then you can kiss some of your compensation goodbye.
It's not a secret, it is a simple matter of what you personally bring to the organization and how it may, or may not, differ from others you work with. You may have better skills than a coworker and they may have better skills than you.
Why should we accept being treated, and compensated, like heads of cattle and all the same? If you bring skills to the table you should benefit from them. Would you willing accept a lower rate of pay just because everyone else is less experiences or less educated than you? That would be silly?
Also, I don't view it as the company having to have awkward conversations, the company pays each individual their worth. If another wants to complain then they get told how they fell short or maybe they get a raise. Maybe it is that you that feels awkward approaching management about how you deserve better compensation?
I would agree there is nothing wrong with a salary range for a position being known. There is no reason for peers to know exactly what the other makes.
Ok, so you have an instance where it both benefited you and worked out, I'm happy for you but I have also seen that example cause an absolute **** show.
Employers will always have that slight bit of power as they hire you and pay you.
Are you not able to have a healthy working relationship with your colleagues without discussing compensation? I've had some people ask and I politely say "sorry but my compensation is something personal that I would prefer not to discuss".
Example for you all that think companies exist to give you more.....
You sell your car privately to an individual for $12k, the next day you see 4 cars of equal quality for sale for $10k, will you call the person you sold it to and refund them the $2k?
Or
You buy a car for 12k and then next day see 4 cars of equal condition for 10k, do you call the person you bought your car from and ask for a $2k refund?
The answer to both is no, the market can change from day to day.
Last edited:
I would never want to pay someone to negotiate on my behalf, ever. Especially someone who is not negotiateing for me versus a collective or if it means I will be compensated the exact same as those I might out perform or have more experience or skills than. Now if I am a mediocre/subpar employee with nothing special to offer then I can see the appeal of a union so I can ride the coattails of my coworkers.
Last edited:
Do you get holidays off, or Recreation Leave or Sick Leave? Did you negotiate ALL of these yourself? These are ALL because of Unions. Even if you are able to bargain these, then it is because Unions started these things as negotiable items. But whatever.
Yawn, the history lessons are getting tiresome. I am well aware of the past benefits of the workers rights movement.
Today, unions are nothing but another corrupt power structure.
Based on what? Talk about a pathetic bias…
So you negate the benefits provided to you from history because you don’t like what it says. Now there’s a solid argument. 😂
Wait, what? I didn't negate anything, I am well aware of, and acknowledge, the benefits gained from unions and the workers rights movement of the past. I simply don't see what benefits are gained today.
Based on what? A very simple internet search......
Report shows corruption continues to plague labor unions
Union FactsCrime and Corruption - Union Facts
Nearly fifty years after John F. Kennedy first condemned corrupt leadership in the American labor movement, it is still plagued by rampant corruption, embezzlement, racketeering and influence from numerous organized crime organizations
Culture of Corruption: ex-UAW leader gets 28-month sentence
Former United Auto Workers president Gary Jones was sentenced to 28 months in prison for scheming to embezzle hundreds of thousands of dollars in union dues
Unions on the Waterfront: Why is Big Labor Prone to Corruption?
(Labor Watch, June 2010 PDF here) Corruption is usually the main topic of news stories about American labor unions. Why? One problem is structural. Labor law gives unions monopoly power. Collective bargaining gives…
Solidarity for Sale: Corruption in Labor Unions
Unions today are as corrupt as ever says Robert Fitch, author of "Solidarity for Sale." He writes about recent scandals in which union leaders accept company checks to restrict their organizing.
www.npr.org
Ten Charged in Carpenters Union Corruption Case
How the Unions Have Corrupted the Social and Economic Fabric of America
Until we can eradicate the dishonest and corrupt unions while keeping the honest ones, municipalities in particular will continue to suffer, as will the rest of the workers and American economy.
Trying to claim that unions are not overrun with corruption is pathetic bias. Even the last article from the Huffington Post of all places questions the need for union in the modern day. If you don't read any of the others read that one. Also, not saying that corporations aren't filled with corruption too but to claim unions are the savior and free from sin is laughable.
Last edited:
But conversely to what they’re saying, those ranges are often difficult to find out or are at least not openly advertised and rarely detail specific performance metrics regarding what performance nets what pay. When it is, it’s almost exclusively related to positions in sales.
Let’s ignore the fact that good unions exist as well as bad. Sounds like it’s time for workers to reform the bad unions just like workers reformed business and labor last century. And while and after those union reforms are implemented, workers can fight for further changes in the worker/employer relationship. Who says that a 40 hour work week with no guaranteed vacation is where workers have to stop making demands? Workers could rightfully push for a 30-35 hour work week and guaranteed vacation time.Wait, what? I didn't negate anything, I am well aware of, and acknowledge, the benefits gained from unions and the workers rights movement of the past. I simply don't see what benefits are gained today.
Based on what? A very simple internet search......
Report shows corruption continues to plague labor unions
www.washingtonpolicy.org
Union FactsCrime and Corruption - Union Facts
Nearly fifty years after John F. Kennedy first condemned corrupt leadership in the American labor movement, it is still plagued by rampant corruption, embezzlement, racketeering and influence from numerous organized crime organizationswww.unionfacts.com
Culture of Corruption: ex-UAW leader gets 28-month sentence
Former United Auto Workers president Gary Jones was sentenced to 28 months in prison for scheming to embezzle hundreds of thousands of dollars in union duesabcnews.go.com
Unions on the Waterfront: Why is Big Labor Prone to Corruption?
(Labor Watch, June 2010 PDF here) Corruption is usually the main topic of news stories about American labor unions. Why? One problem is structural. Labor law gives unions monopoly power. Collective bargaining gives…capitalresearch.org
Solidarity for Sale: Corruption in Labor Unions
Unions today are as corrupt as ever says Robert Fitch, author of "Solidarity for Sale." He writes about recent scandals in which union leaders accept company checks to restrict their organizing.
Ten Charged in Carpenters Union Corruption Case
archives.fbi.gov
How the Unions Have Corrupted the Social and Economic Fabric of America
Until we can eradicate the dishonest and corrupt unions while keeping the honest ones, municipalities in particular will continue to suffer, as will the rest of the workers and American economy.www.huffpost.com
Trying to claim that unions are not overrun with corruption is pathetic bias. Even the last article from the Huffington Post of all places questions the need for union in the modern day. If you don't read any of the others read that one. Also, not saying that corporations aren't filled with corruption too but to claim unions are the savior and free from sin is laughable.
A curated google bias shows nothing. You state that Unions are Nothing But…. I only have show a single example to the contrary to show what you are saying is incorrect. And I can categorically state that my Police Union is anything but corrupt. Accountability is what it is ALL about and the Unions hold Employers to account, and you have clearly stated your claim that Employers should not be held accountable. I wholeheartedly agree that there are corrupt unions, as well as even more corrupt businesses (my opinion) because as we know, power leads to corruption in every aspect of our world.
Basically, a union helps those who are not able to singly argue a case, but it doesn’t mean the idea of unionism is wrong even if you can cite one or two cases where they have done the wrong thing. Should I do the same for corrupt businesses? Feel free to have the last word (I know you want to) but I’ve moved on.
Despite our disagreement on this topic I thank you for what you do.
Please provide citation for that statement, I NEVER said employers (corporations) should not be held accountable for wrongdoings. I absolutely believe that corporations should be held accountable but I do not believe unions do that. IMHO unions today do not meaningfully move the needle other than to defend problem employees. My personal experience with them has been nothing but headaches. I listed a few of them here, all real experiences and I have more:
Another:
One of my best friends worked in IT at a pharmaceutical company containing some union elements, the one of interest in this story would be the receiving dock. My friends team was anxiously awaiting the delivery of a new server and once they heard it was delivered he and a coworker when looking for it. When they located the server they tried to claim it so they could get started on their project but they were stopped and told if they took one more step with that server the union would file a grievance because they were "stealing" a union job. The server was delivered to their department 2 days later. How did that help the "collective"?
Another:
My uncle started a new job at a brewery (union shop) in the distribution department, he was a non-union supervisor, which handled staging and loading of outbound product. On his first night his crew came back from break 5 minutes late, he kinda laughed it off as "hazing" the new boss. He mentioned to them that break time is 15m and they were expected back on time. During the next work period the entire team basically did nothing, purposefully worked super slow until the next break time. At the next break they again came back 5 minutes late and when my uncle didn't say anything work returned to normal. I'm sure the break times were carefully negotiated, why would these fine union workers flaunt their agreement?
Another:
Every single time you see the big inflatable rat in front of a construction site that chose non-union labor. Don't non-union folks have the right to work as well? They went through the same bid process and won, leave it be.
Agreed, except for the "more" qualifier you had to use. Lets just leave it at power leads to corruption and we can agree.
P.S. - Where is Jimmy buried?
Last edited:
Then evidence it. If it happens all the time you should be able to locate some evidence or proof youknow, like the way it always has worked ‘the person making a claim, evidences it.’
Instead, right now it’s just a larp story you made up, and is irrelevant in the context of this post.
Thanks for solving this ages old problem; what we need to do is remind the poor that they only exist to exchange thier labor for the bare minimums provided by the richest companies in human history. And remind them that if they can’t find work with a livable wage then they should ‘market themselves better’ and find (where isn’t my problem) a better job.
/s shouldn’t be necessary but some of you don’t get sarcasm at all.
Blaming the poor seems to be a national pastime of the states and frankly it’s distasteful at best and sociopathic at worst.
DuckDuckGo
Evidence provided. The rat even has a name "scabby". First link is pictures, second link is articles.
Last edited:
Both links are the same actually.
DuckDuckGo
duckduckgo.com
Evidence provided. The rat even has a name "scabby". First link is pictures, second link is articles.
No they aren't, just visually, give them a click. Anyway proof provided so A) I didn't make it up as you claimed, twice, and B) You can see several references to occurrences and so many that they even named the rat.
Last edited:
Way back in 2000-05 I was in a food workers union as a meat cutter for processing plant. That union was pretty much useless. I would never ever join another one. And if my coworkers ever wanted to form one and they succeeded I'd rather quit than pay into that giant waste of money and corruption. Get a real career so you don't have to feel like you need a union. I ended an attempt to unionize at different job. Because the staff that wanted it were entitled lazy. Half of them were cheating at their work. Couple were fired after they were audited with them cheating their output. When the attempted unionization was getting nowhere I convinced enough people to say no. Ofc it was too late. They basically shut down that operation due to who knows what reason months later. But in the end it worked out better for most as we all ended up at better paying jobs. And eventually careers. Entry level jobs are not meant to be careers. FFS. And worse of all it was temp agency employees that tried this. Like why would you try to unionize a temp agency when your contract is based on every 6-12 months. That just makes no sense. Back in the 1900's it made sense. It was dangerous to work then and they didn't care if you got hurt or were poorly paid. Unions make far less sense in the 21st century. There's too much competition to pay utter crap. ANd safety is now handled by Gov't for the most part. Rare to have any obscene hazardous working conditions.
Maybe in China. It's harder to get away with that here in the US. Given how litigious we are. Sure some will try to get away with it. Till they get caught or sued.
I mean for dangerous work conditions. Which is one of the main points of unionizing back in the beginning of unions.
I have no idea. I don't think you'd have any grounds to do that. lol. It's a free market at will employment in the US in most states that I'm aware. So if you want better pay find another job that appreciates your worth or demonstrate to management you bring value and justify the increased pay. If management tells you to bugger off then your options are to stay and suck it up or move on to bigger and brighter things. It's an employees market right now allegedly. And certainly in the tech sector and other industries I feel like it is. With rampant inflation and the Feds now raising interest, this might slow things down and equalize everything in the coming months. So IDK. That's the lessons I take away from my experience.
I'm not anti-Union in general. Just for me in my experience I don't see the value. Not every union is crap obviously. But the value a union brings in the 21st century I feel is less so than in years past. And someone posted an article explaining as such. I mostly agree. Fire, Law, Electricians, unions for example. I hear are great unions.
I'm not anti-Union in general. Just for me in my experience I don't see the value. Not every union is crap obviously. But the value a union brings in the 21st century I feel is less so than in years past. And someone posted an article explaining as such. I mostly agree. Fire, Law, Electricians, unions for example. I hear are great unions.