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Glasgow Apple Store Employees to Become First UK Branch to Unionize
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What if they don’t give any Baristas a raise…for years, regardless of their performance? Barista A no longer gives a damn and becomes Barista B. The old Barista B gets sacked and replaced by a new barista. And around we go again. Like the coffee, the misery percolates.
Employers have employer rights. Employees have employee rights. Without unions, where’s the negotiation?
Don’t you know that you can just work hard and “market yourself” and employers will apparently just throw money at you?? Someone should tell all these retail and restaurant employees about this. Eureka, we’ve solved wealth and income inequality. Hard working Walmart cashiers all starting at $20/hr, coming soon.
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You think Slave labour is okay? Your view on business is what drives countries into the ground and causes revolution. Learn your history child.
And we're in total agreement. If everyone in this thread agrees to that the main reason they want to form a union is that they lack the power as individuals to negotiate with Apple as an equal, I have no problems.
For people who has high bargaining power it might benefit them to not join a union and to work for a company where pay is decided individually and often unfair.
Maybe I didn't make my argument clear.
Let's say there are two ways to increase pay, benefits and work quality:
A) Getting a new job at company which offers that
B) Form a union to fight for it
Option A is faster and easier. I think almost anyone would choose option A if they could.
The problem for retail workers is A) doesn't really exist. Which leaves them with either status quo or option B.
For those of us were A) is quite easy, being member of a union or working at a company where salaries are collectively negotiated might reduce our ability for high pay and benefits.
I never needed unions to negotiate my salary and benefits. It's not necessary if you can do a job which is sought after and isn't easily replaceable.
The problem in retail is that you very often are easily replaceable.
There is no fault, but it should be equal and fair pay for a given role for the amount of work done. Having 2 completely identical candidates doing the exact same job but being paid different amount is not ok. A company turning over $386 billion per year ($42.5 billion profit per year, $116 million profit per day) does not need to be shafting retail staff over what amounts to minuscule amounts of turnover.
Congratulations on not discussing your salary, but people do, and the more people do, the more we are made aware of glaring discrepancies never mind the widespread sexism that pollutes businesses around the world with unfair pay. This idea that salaries should be secret seems pretty alien to me. I say that has haven been the employee and employer.
You do X job, you will be paid this figure. If you excel and hit clear targets while doing X job, you can be paid this different figure, a figure that is open and advertised to all employees as an incentive to perform job X well. You will also be given a set percentage increase based on clearly defined years of employment, as well as 1 extra holiday day per year of employment.
But not equal pay for different levels of performance.
It is okay if the performance is different.
What shafting? Apple increased the pay. And because a company makes a lot of revenue doesn’t automatically entitle employees to it.
It’s unprofessional to discuss salary and not brings to light difference in performance.
I would think many companies have compensation ranges and targets even if all employees aren’t aware of them.
It's BS invented by big corps in order to keep employees away from things like this thread's subject, and more.
Couldn't disagree more.
I should, as an individual with my own unique skill sets, experience, etc be able to negotiate against my peers. If I apply for position X and have a history of performance to fall back on I should be able to negotiate a higher wage or better benefits versus other that may have been with the company for a number of years. Now if I do that and on day one start discussing my overall compensation with those peers I immediately cause strife, not a smart move.
In the above example I apply to a union shop, if coming from a non-union shop, regardless of my skills, experience or past performance I start at the bottom of the barrel while potentially lesser peers gain all the benefits simply based on their seniority. No thanks, I'll continue to fight for myself.
Have fun with that in a union shop where out performing other members, especially senior ones, is widely discouraged.
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Why do you think those two things are mutually exclusive?
Some 15 years ago, I worked in some advertising agency, as the only employee on certain position, for a certain salary (got a bit less than I demanded when I got the job, but nothing significant, I was ok with that). Then we got some new demanding clients, management was in the rush, and they hired another guy and gave him bigger salary immediately. He was ok and we have openly discussed our salaries, I got to the management and demanded raise or else I leave. And I got it.
Corporations are always trying to screw you over for money, and if I followed your way of thinking, I would never get my (well deserved) raise.
What in any of my posts makes you think that? Other than discussing wages all of my posts speak to marketing yourself to gain your value. You probably knew, without openly discussing wage, that your company was in a bind for personnel and could leverage that.
I don’t see it as the company looking to screw you over, I see it as why should I pay someone more if I don’t have to? If they don’t ask, why should I just hand money out?
No I didn't. It all happened too fast, within two weeks, and I didn't know the salary that guy was demanding.
My point is - most corporations (Apple in this case) usually react only under pressure. Timmy and all the highest-paid executives and MBAs literally wouldn't notice a few grand decrease in their annual income, yet it makes the company much better in the eyes of public and potential employees, and makes it highly desirable place to work at.
But unfortunately, corporate greed for every single penny squeezed is always stronger.
I’m glad you stood up for yourself and your company recognized your worth but I would challenge you to keep better notes on your industry and what positions like yours can realize.
Religiously, every 2 years I get research on positions like mine and what salaries look like. I also will apply for positions just to test the water. In most cases I don’t really want to leave but if another company offers a significant gain I can either leave or use it as leverage with my current company.
No one will ever promote you better than you and it is your responsibility to do so.
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Not discussing salary is a thing concocted by businesses to protect themselves and themselves only. The brainwashed idea that it is unprofessional is laughable. I also completely hate the idea that you should always do what you can to be better than your colleague so that you get paid more than them, and you should guard that secret until you die incase they get paid the same as you.
Why are we accepting falling in line so that the company doesn't have to have awkward conversations. There is absolutely nothing unprofessional about knowing how much a company pays their staff.
Why are we accepting falling in line so that the company doesn't have to have awkward conversations. There is absolutely nothing unprofessional about knowing how much a company pays their staff.
That's all ok, but has nothing to do with the thing we talked about (openly discussing salaries within company). I gave you clear example that it worked for me as an employee.
As long as majority of people treat employers like somebody who is doing favor to employees in any way, we'll be screwed as humanity. This is simply two-way relationship - exchange of labor for money.
Yes, this is somehow predominant behavior in todays capitalism. I don't want to play gladiator, I tend to have healthy working relations with my colleagues. I've been in few toxic working environments like this and now avoid it like a plague. Competitive corporate BS.
No it might only make a difference to you, you can’t objectively prove this.
Another feel good statement that cannot objectively be proved.
That’s a meme at this point. Unless you believe the 1b customers are blind to apples failings and buy their products anyway.
Sure…if one is making $12 hour it may not make a difference. But if one is in a team of highly paid developers making above $350K discussion of salary probably isn’t that profitable for openness and team building . I do agree there is nothing wrong with knowing the pay scale.
That really is the view of a person who wants bargaining and inequality to remain a secret. The cause of a collective people to need a collective voice (Union)
Your statement of 'being a feel good statement' is something that cannot be objectively proved.