Health, Good Practises, and Exercise

[jdechko]

Today can be summed up by the following: “Task failed successfully”

Officially, I’m listed as a DNF. It’s hard to pin down exactly what happened but suffice to say that I had to remove myself from the swim.

I got about 100 yards into the swim and just couldn’t get into my rhythm. I hung on to a kayak for a bit to try to calm myself and after continuing on for about another 100 yards I had to call it.

Disappointing, but I could tell I was just going to continue to struggle and it wasn’t worth it. (There are manned kayaks and paddle boards about ever 100 yards and a couple of rescue boats).

After the boat brought the few of us back to the beach, the race director said we could still continue the course, but we wouldn’t be timed. So game on!

T1 (swim to bike transition) went well. Bike shoes, sunglasses, helmet and an energy gel and I was off in about 90 seconds (I forgot to hit the lap key).

Bike course was 14 miles, which I did in about 50 minutes. Lost control about 2 miles in and nearly wrecked, but I was able to save it. About halfway through the ride, I couldn’t get my bottle back in the cage, so I had to pull over and lost about 30 seconds there.

T2 (bike to run) was fine, except for that damn bottle again, which fell off as I dismounted. So I lost time having to go pick it up (but still way less than the 2-minute penalty for littering would have been).

The run was just a matter of keeping my HR under control and keeping an even pace. At 34 minutes and change, it wasn’t my best 5k but that seemed par for the course today.
Total time for the bike/run was 1:29:20 which I’m okay with. Add in a should-have-been 10-ish minute swim and I’d have been thrilled.

Today was always supposed to be a practice session. Maybe that’s why I didn’t persevere on the swim. As it stands, I’m home, having eaten and showered. I’m disappointed, but not angry. Tomorrow, I’ll review the metaphorical game tape, try to break down what went wrong and what went right. Monday, I’ll be right back to training.

I guess in the end that’s why we are all here on this thread. We all have our own goals and it’s important to share our struggles and failures as much as it is our successes. It’s about perseverance in the face of setbacks.

In the wise words of Coach Ted Lasso, it’s better to be together and sad than alone and sad. But tomorrow, be a goldfish!

 

[ipsedixit]

Good for you jdechko.

As with many things health and fitness related, oftentimes the journey and the process is more important than the actual endgame.

 

[44267547]

Nerves can affect tempo. It’s the hard result of any athlete when they’re competing on the day of the event.

Before I was a bodybuilder, I used to actually be a long range runner for years. I remember prepping for a long range run with a friend, and he challenged me to race who can finish first. I prepped for months in advance to beat him, in which I did, but only by .5 of a mile. When I was actually running on the day of competition against him, I definitely could tell my nerves were starting to affect my adrenaline, my breathing was heavier and naturally slowed me down. But the days that I was practicing running, I never experienced any of those affects. It’s a mental game against yourself in some aspects. But once you gain advantage over the tempo, that confidence naturally surfaces and then you kind of have that mentality that ‘You can’t be stopped.’

 

[jdechko]

Definitely. Starting off at too high a tempo can be bad in any sport, but open water swimming is probably one of the worst. I know what to do to *try* to calm down—float on your back, switch strokes, tread water or float on a raft. Unfortunately I just couldn’t get my heart rate down enough to where I was comfortable. Of all the things that went wrong, it definitely wasn’t a lack of ability. That’s honestly the frustrating part. I typically swim about 5000 yards a week, so 500 should have been easy, except yesterday it wasn’t…
One takeaway is that I need to start incorporating more open water into my routine just to regain/build confidence.

 

[44267547]

Reconstructive analysis:

I have a ritual that I do every day when traveling to the gym, and I turn on a podcast in my car that discusses the likes of supplementation, dietary and techniques for maximizing efficiency for weightlifting and then on the way home from my lifting session, I talk out loud in my car about what can I do differently, where I can improve if I hit a plateau, different techniques, working on my form, was my caloric intake on point for that day, ect.

That’s how you improve as an athlete. You have to break down what works and what doesn’t, and what you can improve upon or add to grow. It doesn’t matter how long (Or what age) somebody has been practicing a certain sport or physicality, there’s always room to improve.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Any ultramarathon/thriatlon/spartan runner here?
Question is: do you take any salt/hydration tablet? If so, which one? Are they useful?

 

[jdechko]

Any ultramarathon/thriatlon/spartan runner here?
Question is: do you take any salt/hydration tablet? If so, which one? Are they useful?

Currently I’m just using Gatorade endurance formula and the GU gels for during the races and long workouts. I usually drink Gatorade zero during recovery since it has fewer calories.

GU gels: 125mg sodium / each
Gatorade endurance: 300mg / serving

My goal for December is to carry concentrated Gatorade Endurance on the bike and mix with the water from the course. During the run, they are supposed to have Gatorade endurance.

I like the gels because you’re not carrying the water weight and it’s early to grab a quick sip of water at an aid station.

I’ve also used the nunn hydration tablets before. Nothing really wrong with them, but I just prefer the Gatorade since I think it’s easier to pre-mix.

As far as useful, I don’t think I’ve ever been dehydrated during training or races. No cramps or any side effects from the intensity.

 

[44267547]

I guess I’m asking rhetorically, but my question would be [with no experience being a marathon runner], why would you need these ‘energy’ gels though? Is it more of something like you can’t finish the race and you’re relying on something that will spike the blood sugars? If I recall, Lance Armstrong was interviewed years ago and he mentioned he did eight egg whites before a race and made sure he had enough sodium in his diet up to the race, that’s all he relied on, (minus any PED’s).

Anyways, I guess I’m asking if this is the ‘norm’ for people to carry these gels with them or do people struggle with different levels of endurance at certain points of a race that they _need_ to have these to push that extra mile? Would it be necessary for younger athlete to have these or an older athlete where maybe their stamina is not once what it was?

Lastly, how long have these energy gels been around? My dad used to be a long range ‘competitive’ runner for many years, and he never used anything like this. So of somebody like myself that’s not experienced in marathons, it definitely interest me to understand why these need to exist.

Anyways, I’m asking out loud. (And yes, I do talk to myself as noted above…..😁)

 

[yaxomoxay]

I guess I’m asking rhetorically, but my question would be [with no experience being a marathon runner], why would you need these ‘energy’ gels though? Is it more of something like you can’t finish the race and you’re relying on something that will spike the blood sugars? If I recall, Lance Armstrong was interviewed years ago and he mentioned he did eight egg whites before a race and made sure he had enough sodium in his diet up to the race, that’s all he relied on, (minus any PED’s).

Anyways, I guess I’m asking if this is the ‘norm’ for people to carry these gels with them or do people struggle with different levels of endurance at certain points of a race that they _need_ to have these to push that extra mile? Would it be necessary for younger athlete to have these or an older athlete where maybe their stamina is not once what it was?

Lastly, how long have these energy gels been around? My dad used to be a long range ‘competitive’ runner for many years, and he never used anything like this. So of somebody like myself that’s not experienced in marathons, it definitely interest me to understand why these need to exist.

Anyways, I’m asking out loud. (And yes, I do talk to myself as noted above…..?)

My understanding, it is mostly to avoid cramping and, in the worse case scenarios, rhabdo due to lack of potassium. It's also to prevent muscular fibers from being completely destroyed.

I think there is also a difference between marathons and cycling and ultramarathons/obstacle courses/triathlons. Marathons and cycling have more or less the same pace for the vast majority of the race. Triathlons, obstacle courses, but also ultramarathons have very different types of pacing during the race itself. In the case of obstacle courses there is also sudden muscular effort demands on specific muscles that have not been used for a certain length of time, which can be very dangerous. Imagine you're doing a triathlon or a Spartan, you run for miles, your body is depleted of electrolytes (and dangerously, potassium), and then you need immediate, sudden total upper body strength to climb a few walls or to swim.

This is my understanding, experts will correct me.

 

[jdechko]

@Relentless Power I’ll preface what I’m about to write with the disclaimer that I’m not an expert on nutrition. This is based on my personal experience and what I’ve read.

Take the Ironman Triathlon for example. The estimates I’ve read are that an average, amateur competitor will take about 14 hours, plus or minus, to complete the course and burn approximately 10,000 calories in doing so.

There are energy stores (glycogen, I think) already inside your muscles, but an average individual maybe only has enough for an hour or two. The body can try to make more glycogen from fat, carbohydrates and even protein. Carbohydrates are the easiest to convert, but the body can only absorb 80-ish grams/ hr (again, from what I’ve read). Additionally, you need something that’s easy to consume on the go, won’t screw with your digestive system and isn’t too bulky or heavy.

During the 3.2 mile swim, you really can’t eat anything, but by properly loading before the race start, you could get through with what you’ve already absorbed.

The bike is 112 miles, or about 6 hours at an aggressive amateur pace. Personally, I burn about 700 calories per hour on the bike at that pace. the gels, gel blocks, snicker bars and Gatorade basically tick the essential boxes: carbs, calories, electrolytes and hydration.

Then after all that, you still have to run a complete marathon. (Another 5-600 cal per hour for me). Again, you don’t want to run on a full stomach.

Now, compare that to something like a sprint triathlon, which only takes a couple of hours. If I had finished the swim, it would have been maybe 1:40 for my total time. It was 2 gels (one at the bike start and one at the bike end) and a couple of sips of Gatorade. I burned 1000 calories during that time, and so I didn’t need to replenish nearly as much.

EDIT: gels have been around for a while, but I don’t know how long. But I can imagine that their composition has been understood for a while (sugar, electrolytes, caffeine and amino acids). Just like a thick syrup.

There are aid stations as well that will have some stuff for the athletes. Some people are okay with stopping every so often to take a break. Others will just carry what they want/ need. The other thing though is making sure that whatever the stations have won’t mess up your digestive system.

We’ve come a long way to understanding human endurance from this craziness https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a37039437/1904-olympic-marathon/
(Trust me, it’s a really wild read)

 

[44267547]

After grilling 60lbs of Turkey burgers for the summer, now transitioning to baking. 3lbs of Chicken cutlets and asparagus for the healthy fats. (Used the airfryer for the asparagus.)

 

[44267547]

Yup, another photo!😁

I can’t speak enough good words about the air fryer. If you know anything about salmon cooking indoors, it can leave a very unpleasant odor that lingers, not only was this 14 ounce filet cooked under 28 minutes, but there was absolutely _no_ odor and zero cleanup.

Oh, and I also used the air fryer with the asparagus, which took ~12 minutes total.

 

[jdechko]

I wanted to share a little bit of what I’ve learned about recovery and fatigue.

Even though I didn’t complete my last triathlon, the bike and run were still pretty intense as far as workouts would go. Since then I had gotten back on my training program and I had been nailing my workouts, or so I thought. I had been giving 105-110% in all of my workouts because failure makes us try harder. And I was noticing some steady improvements in the pool and on my runs. I even set a PB on a 5k.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t affording myself adequate time to recover, and that’s affected me over the past 5 days, as I’d accumulated too much exercise debt (or fatigue)

Last Friday, which was the day after the 5k, I did my normal workouts, but by that evening, I was feeling like crap. So much so, that I basically had to spend Saturday and Sunday in bed. Monday is my normal recovery day, which was welcome, and I ended up doing a lighter bike workout rather than a harder run.
Fortunately, being a data nerd like nearly every triathlete I follow, I was able to quantify my experience. I confirmed what my body was telling me with the hard data. I had been overtraining and was feeling the effects of the fatigue. Elevated HR over the weekend tracks with times when I’m sick. Heart rate is now back to normal and fatigue is trending downwards (there’s a formula that TrainingPeaks uses).
I’m also resetting my expectations for workouts. I follow and 80/20 plan, which is 80% low intensity and 20% medium/high intensity. If the workouts say to go slow, I’m definitely going to follow that from now on. I’m also going to pay more attention to my trends in fatigue (there are recovery weeks built into my training plan). I’m just glad to have sorted this out now.

 

[44267547]

I have two points:

1.) Over training is a very real thing. If you’re any type of real athlete, I think we’ve all been there. But the stressors that follow over training will definitely let you know the signals from your body, when your body starts to break down in terms of fatigue, slow recovery post-workout, sleep cycles might be affected, or even your nutrition might be off point.

Back in 2019, I used to weight train five days a week, approximately 1.5 hours per session. I would always take off Saturday/Sundays and then restart the cycle Monday through Friday. What I found out, was that my recovery didn’t seem fully complete, when joints need adequate recovery, and more importantly, is to minimize your training in the shortest amount of time to be in the gym as possible, and maximize your at-home recovery, that should be your goal.

So when I rebounded with my B.B. training post pandemic March 2021 when gyms reopened, I started training four days a week, adding a third rest day, which made a massive difference in terms of rejuvenation for my joints and muscles, and I found out that I could focus more on my nutrition to promote more muscle growth.

Lastly on this point, [and this is something that I think I need to learn], is is just take a random week off from training altogether. I know we always talk about taking one or two recovery days off before retraining again, but I also think there needs to be that ‘reset function’ where you take seven days off no training whatsoever and just focus on your nutrition and sleep.

2.) One thing I think is really important to consider when it comes to recovery or fatigue that is overlooked, is you’re also your age. I feel like that’s a constant adjustment that somebody needs to evaluate depending how hard you train and how long it takes to recover, which seemingly will take longer when you become older.

I assume Jdecko is probably is in his 50’s, naturally your stamina and overall recovery will take considerably longer where you deplete quicker because of age, slower injury rejuvenation, lowered testosterone levels, and overall just your genetics play a role.

*********************

One thing I would like to personally invest for my house in the future, would be a hot tub. Hot/cold therapy both have their advantages, but heat will draw blood flow, which aids in recovery for muscles, tendons and joints, and of course promotes relaxation.

 

[ipsedixit]

I really don’t think there is overtraining as much as there is under-recovery.

 

[44267547]

I really don’t think there is overtraining as much as there is under-recovery.

What you said is purely non-sensical . I’ve never even heard of ‘under recovery’ first off, and if you’re not fully recovered in your training regiment where you train again in XYZ time frame, then you are over training.

Either you’re fully recovered [or] you’re not from whatever your post workout was.

Any intelligent athlete that devotes their life to a specific sport or training style, completely understands overtraining is an absolute real factor. I don’t care if it’s from ice-skating to taekwondo, there’s plenty of written documentation on over training and the after effects, how to adjust the necessary data to prevent that.

 

[jdechko]

I assume Jdecko is probably is in his 50’s, naturally your stamina and overall recovery will take considerably longer where you deplete quicker because of age, slower injury rejuvenation, lowered testosterone levels, and overall just your genetics play a role.

*********************

One thing I would like to personally invest for my house in the future, would be a hot tub. Hot/cold therapy both have their advantages, but heat will draw blood flow, which aids in recovery for muscles, tendons and joints, and of course promotes relaxation.

Holy ****. I’m not offended, but do I really come across as that old? ? I’m not even 40 yet!
but I do take your point. I’m not in my 20’s, and there are days where it definitely takes me longer to shake the rust off.
Furthermore, I definitely try to make time for ice. We also have a lower leg massager. And I can’t understate the importance of a foam roller. I even have a 24” section of 2” PVC for rolling out some kinks.

I really don’t think there is overtraining as much as there is under-recovery.

six to one, half dozen to another, in my opinion.

What you said is purely non-sensical . I’ve never even heard of ‘under recovery’ first off, and if you’re not fully recovered in your training regiment where you train again in XYZ time frame, then you are over training.

Either you’re fully recovered [or] you’re not from whatever your post workout was.

Any intelligent athlete that devotes their life to a specific sport or training style, completely understands overtraining is an absolute real factor. I don’t care if it’s from ice-skating to taekwondo, there’s plenty of written documentation on over training and the after effects, how to adjust the necessary data to prevent that.

Listening to your body is the last line of defense in preventing overtraining. Our bodies are incredible machines, but we are also capable of self-destruction. I present myself as exhibit A. My goal for next year is a full-distance Ironman, so when I talk about pushing to the limit, I definitely keep this in mind.

ideally, though, there is a system of fail-safes. My training plan, although not tailored to me specifically, was done by professionals and has recovery weeks built in and periodic fitness checks to establish workout intensities. Garmin has some analytics that recommend recovery times based on the workouts you just completed, and some overall training load metrics. And TrainingPeaks has load and fatigue metrics. But the data is only useful if you pay attention.

 

[44267547]

Holy ****. I’m not offended, but do I really come across as that old? 😂 I’m not even 40 yet!
but I do take your point. I’m not in my 20’s, and there are days where it definitely takes me longer to shake the rust off.
Furthermore, I definitely try to make time for ice. We also have a lower leg massager. And I can’t understate the importance of a foam roller. I even have a 24” section of 2” PVC for rolling out some kinks.



six to one, half dozen to another, in my opinion.


Listening to your body is the last line of defense in preventing overtraining. Our bodies are incredible machines, but we are also capable of self-destruction. I present myself as exhibit A. My goal for next year is a full-distance Ironman, so when I talk about pushing to the limit, I definitely keep this in mind.

ideally, though, there is a system of fail-safes. My training plan, although not tailored to me specifically, was done by professionals and has recovery weeks built in and periodic fitness checks to establish workout intensities. Garmin has some analytics that recommend recovery times based on the workouts you just completed, and some overall training load metrics. And TrainingPeaks has load and fatigue metrics. But the data is only useful if you pay attention.

Well, I didn’t say my guessing was very good regarding your age. 😁I don’t know why I thought that, but I thought you were in your 50s. I’ll subtract that by 12 years or so.

I find one of the most important things that I do with my workouts, is just stay consistent. That means that not necessarily just with the weight training, but a lot of the stretching and circulation work for the joints before training. I don’t spend too much time stretching, but adequate enough where I know I’m ready to go before my work out. What I don’t understand, is those who walk in the gym and just start pushing heavy weight without stretching. I don’t care if you’re young or old, pre-and post stretching is just crucial to properly warm-up and prevent injury.

To me, it seems like you’ve got the method of working smarter, not harder. And to be honest, I wouldn’t be cut-out to participate in an Iron Man triathlon or anything of that nature, and something like that, takes months (I’d guess even a year for some) of preparation, given how much endurance you need. And I think the biggest challenge you probably face, is you have to train for all these separate events when it comes to swimming, biking, running, etc. so it’s like you have to be metric driven like you mentioned, to see where you placed in each one of those categories, which isn’t just physically challenging, but mentally as well, where you’re probably running a lot figures through your head.


In terms of being responsive to prevent over training, or just how you train in general, I started bodybuilding really late. And I’m glad that I did, because I started at an age of 33 with far more intelligence into this sport studying it versus if I would’ve started when I’m 21, probably would’ve ego-lifted an injured myself to the point where I wouldn’t even be bodybuilding today. Anytime when I’m lifting, I focus on the execution of the form and muscle-mind connection. So overtime, you just develop acute senses to know everything about your body and what you’re experiencing.

So overtime, intelligent athletes I think just learn to be able to read every little signal from their body, versus somebody that just doesn’t have a goal or aimlessly does a physical activity incorrectly.

 

[Huntn]

Since I have cut out breakfast, drink a meal substitute for lunch, then shoot to eat a small meal before 5pm including a reasonable desert, and when seized by a desire to eat something sweet suck on a 15 calorie lifesaver, I have dropped from 225 to 209. My goal was 210, new goal 199!
While I still believe calories intake is the primary factor, 3 workouts a week at the pool/gym is an important part of the routine, but I’ve also been working in the green space behind our house doing my annual battle of the vines. This year I realized I’d better make it a biannual battle of the vibes. Kudzu appeared along with the usual spiny vines.

 

[pshufd]

Since I have cut out breakfast, drink a meal substitute for lunch, then shoot to eat a small meal before 5pm including a reasonable desert, and when seized by a desire to eat something sweet suck on a 15 calorie lifesaver, I have dropped from 225 to 209. My goal was 210, new goal 199! While I still believe calories intake are the primary factor, 3 workouts a week at the pool/gym is an important part of the routine, but I’ve also been working in the green space behind our house doing my annual battle of the vines. This year I realized I’d better make it a biannual battle of the vibes.

Excellent progress.

 

[44267547]

Since I have cut out breakfast, drink a meal substitute for lunch, then shoot to eat a small meal before 5pm including a reasonable desert, and when seized by a desire to eat something sweet suck on a 15 calorie lifesaver, I have dropped from 225 to 209. My goal was 210, new goal 199!
While I still believe calories intake is the primary factor, 3 workouts a week at the pool/gym is an important part of the routine, but I’ve also been working in the green space behind our house doing my annual battle of the vines. This year I realized I’d better make it a biannual battle of the vibes. Kudzu appeared along with the usual spiny vines.

Nice work. I’m curious, while ago you mentioned you were going to ‘cut the kitchen’ out by 7 PM. And now you’re saying you’re trying to eat a small meal by 5, do you consume any other calories past 5? Or is that completely cut out for the day at that time? Also, if you’re at ~199, I’m curious what your height is?

 

[Huntn]

Nice work. I’m curious, while ago you mentioned you were going to ‘cut the kitchen’ out by 7 PM. And now you’re saying you’re trying to eat a small meal by 5, do you consume any other calories past 5? Or is that completely cut out for the day at that time? Also, if you’re at ~199, I’m curious what your height is?

By 5pm is a new standard but I will eat as late as 6-7pm if circumstances prevent me from eating earlier, sometimes I eat as ealy as 4pm, and I am also eating smaller portions. No more full belly feeling, that’s bad.

When I get to 199… my current height is actually 5’9”, but I used to be 5’10”. It was a mental blow to discover I had shrunk, one of the cruelties of aging. When I walk though the airport, I still feel like I am above the average.

 

[pshufd]

By 5pm is a new standard but I will eat as late as 6-7pm if circumstances prevent me from eating earlier, sometimes I eat as ealy as 4pm, and I am also eating smaller portions. No more full belly feeling, that’s bad.

When I get to 199… my current height is actually 5’9”, but I used to be 5’10”. It was a mental blow to discover I had shrunk, one of the cruelties of aging. When I walk though the airport, I still feel like I am above the average.

Have you considered doing pullups? Or just hanging from your arms? It makes a nice stretch.

 

[44267547]

By 5pm is a new standard but I will eat as late as 6-7pm if circumstances prevent me from eating earlier, sometimes I eat as ealy as 4pm, and I am also eating smaller portions. No more full belly feeling, that’s bad.

When I get to 199… my current height is actually 5’9”, but I used to be 5’10”. It was a mental blow to discover I had shrunk, one of the cruelties of aging. When I walk though the airport, I still feel like I am above the average.

They (Nutritionists) say the toughest time of the year for weight gain is the holidays, I disagree with that. Like everything caloric related, is portion control. I still eat six times a day, (specifically for B.B.), but I do it moderately, I don’t over-eat. I do believe in cheat days, as it’s good to have a mental reset, but nothing too extreme either. Even after all that food, I don’t feel bloated at all. (And that’s partially due to genetics with a fast metabolism).

My key component is that I don’t consume anything deep-fried, absolutely no alcohol whatsoever, very little processed sugar and I don’t even consume vegetables that much, I’m pretty much on a carnivore/carb diet with moderate fats [i.e.-asparagus, nut butters, almond oil, ect.]

And I think I shrunk too. I was 5’8 a year ago, now somehow I measured in 5’7. Must be the shoes. 😁

—Just for kicks, here’s my daily meal staging—

Meal 1: 4 whole eggs. One bagel. One banana.

Meal 2: 6.5 ounces of Greek yogurt with chopped banana and 80% dark chocolate chips.

Meal 3: 8 ounces of ground beef and white rice.

Meal 4: 7 ounces of chicken with white rice.

Meal 5: 6 ounces of ground beef mixed with two whole eggs.

Meal 6: 6 ounces of ground beef with 6 ounces of pasta with tomato sauce.

(I also are usually have two pieces of Ezekiel bread with peanut butter mixed somewhere in those meals.)

Water consumption: 1 gallon.

 

[Huntn]

Have you considered doing pullups? Or just hanging from your arms? It makes a nice stretch.

No actually but it is something I could try to include in my other arm exercises. The thing is I’m usually working with 40-60lb, and that is lifting 200 lb.