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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,698
10,999
I hope I can upgrade to M3 (or M3 Pro/Max even) one day because my M1 MacBook Pro cannot even run 2 games simultaneously without substantial frame drops and lags. It's just insane.
With that being said, I am not 100% sure if M3 Pro can handle 2 games or more simultaneously, while all background applications are also running.
 

dredlew

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2014
142
230
Japan
I just don’t understand why the Mac Pro exists. The Mac Studio Ultra seems the smart play. Unless they stop putting the Ultra in the Studio and made better expandability options. That would make sense.
The Mac Pro still makes sense. Aside from the higher-end professionals that need PCI slots for their various hardware, you can also look at it as a longer term investment if you continually upgrade storage. The amount of money I spent on external drive enclosures & drives just to find the perfect solution, I could have put this towards a Mac Pro and more easily upgrade internally and with a faster throughput.

So this year, I will strongly consider a Mac Pro upgrade instead of a Mac Studio. The lack of enough TB/USB-C ports on the Mac Studio is also a strong argument for the Mac Pro. Will I buy the ridiculous wheels? Nope, no I will not. 😂

FYI: this guy makes the same arguments…
 

Rkuda

macrumors regular
May 23, 2016
194
369
Wonder if Tim Apple will deign to release USB-C versions of the magic keyboard and trackpad with one of the remaining Mac updates...
 
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aj_niner

Suspended
Dec 24, 2023
360
373
The Mac Pro still makes sense. Aside from the higher-end professionals that need PCI slots for their various hardware, you can also look at it as a longer term investment if you continually upgrade storage. The amount of money I spent on external drive enclosures & drives just to find the perfect solution, I could have put this towards a Mac Pro and more easily upgrade internally and with a faster throughput.

So this year, I will strongly consider a Mac Pro upgrade instead of a Mac Studio. The lack of enough TB/USB-C ports on the Mac Studio is also a strong argument for the Mac Pro. Will I buy the ridiculous wheels? Nope, no I will not. 😂

FYI: this guy makes the same arguments…
If you shared your Mac Pro M2 Ultra thoughts on the Mac Pro subforum they'd lynch you. 🤣
 
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darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,113
9,767
Atlanta, GA
Is there any reason why the mini can't get the Max chip? Other than Apple wanting people to pay more for the Studio and MBP of course...

But would you be paying more for the Studio?

The 16GB/512GB M2-Pro Mini is $1300
The 32GB/1TB M2-Pro Mini is $1900
The 32GB/1TB M2-Max Studio is $2000
The M2-Max was a $600 upgrade in the MBP
The M3-Max is a $400 upgrade in the MBP

It’s hard to draw a concrete conclusion since we dont know how much the M3 Minis and Studios cost, but an M3-Max Mini would probably be priced similarly to the M3-Max Studio
 
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bradman83

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2020
965
2,392
Buffalo, NY
What if Apple does the right thing and kicks off WWDC with the M4 series, and the Mini, Studio and Pro are the first to get it? The Macbook Pro’s would follow late 2024. We would have gone back to a regular 12-month upgrade schedule and everyone would rejoice. Except those who bought the M2 Ultra, lol.

If the Scary Fast event was indeed a ”****, we need to stop dragging our asses, we are losing to the competition. Send the M3 out even though we don’t have supply for all models and make it a short cycle instead of a very long one due to COVID and supply restraints”. It would explain it.

However, if they rushed it because of.. ?? then this is likely not happening.
If we're talking about 12 month upgrade cycles then the M4 would be due in October/November, 12 months after the M3.

The M3 was delayed because TSMC's 3nm process node was delayed. That's not something Apple can directly control unless they want to release successive iterations on the same process node like what Intel was panned for doing with its 14nm process.

Given that TSMC's 3NE process is ready for production it seems reasonable we could see the M4 this fall, but it will still take several months to update the entire product line.
 
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GalileoSeven

macrumors 6502a
Jan 3, 2015
597
826
As much as I admire the seamlessness of Screen Mirroring my M2 MBA to whichever TV I happen to be sitting in front of, I recently got a wild hair and decided to dig out my old mid-2011 mini and hook it up to the 65" Sony I have in my basement.

Browsing the web while watching a movie or listening to music like this is a hoot and to me, much more preferable. Upgrading the RAM from 2 to 8GB some years back was also a smart move. Nevertheless, the overall age of this box, combined with the fact it's stuck on High Sierra (10.13.6) has me considering a refurbished M2 model from Apple - which would likely drop lower if/when new M3 models are introduced
 
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coachgq

macrumors 6502a
Jun 16, 2009
931
1,853
I’d love an M3 Mac mini. The US Apple Refurbished Store routinely has an M2 Mac mini in a 16/256 config for $680. I’m so tempted.
I have the M2 pro mini 512/16 with an extra 2 TB portable drive. I’m not even concerned about when the m3 is coming out. I plan to keep this for at least 7 years with ASD. Even with video editing, the m2 pro doesn’t even begin to feel slow. Also love having the 4 TB ports.
 
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soyazul

macrumors 6502
May 18, 2015
297
325
Argentina
As much I would love to purchase the Mac Pro, I'm not so sure about buying one due to it being way overpriced for my taste. I have a 2012 Mac Pro desktop and I still have it. I just love that engineering design of 2012 model and the latest Mac Pro design. By the way, I just love the engineering marvels of both of these desktops.
I'm definitely considering buying a Mac Studio. Then develop a custom setup for my desk space for my creative digital studio space. Just gonna wait and see.
M3 based Mac Pro will surprise everyone. So you´ll buy the M3 Xtreme after June
 
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JitteryJimmy

macrumors regular
Apr 12, 2008
192
294
I just don’t understand why the Mac Pro exists. The Mac Studio Ultra seems the smart play. Unless they stop putting the Ultra in the Studio and made better expandability options. That would make sense.

I think there is real potential in the Pro if Apple lets their engineers go a bit off-script. Hopefully Apple will stop paying attention to the vocal YouTubers who want to make it something akin to a home-built "gamer PC" that primarily focus on their own FPS benchmarks, coin mining, and seeing how much gear they can shove inside the housing.
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,113
9,767
Atlanta, GA
I think there is real potential in the Pro if Apple lets their engineers go a bit off-script. Hopefully Apple will stop paying attention to the vocal YouTubers who want to make it something akin to a home-built "gamer PC" that primarily focus on their own FPS benchmarks, coin mining, and seeing how much gear they can shove inside the housing.
I was disappointed in the MacPro because I expected it to have a high-bandwidth connection which would allow for multiple SoCs. While two Ultras SoCs might not be as fast as the rumored Extreme SoC, they would be much faster than a single Ultra SoC.
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,548
7,468
As much I would love to purchase the Mac Pro, I'm not so sure about buying one due to it being way overpriced for my taste.
If you need multiple/high bandwidth PCIe slots for specialist I/O, AV or internal storage -> Mac Pro
If you are happy with 4-6 Thunderbolt ports -> Mac Studio
I just don’t understand why the Mac Pro exists. The Mac Studio Ultra seems the smart play.

Answer: High bandwidth, internal PCIe slots - if you don't need those you don't need a Mac Pro.

Yes, there could be some kind of Mac Studio Thunderbolt card slot case... like one could do with graphics cards before Silicon...

These have been around for ages - from Sonnet and the like - but they're limited because PCIe a single TB3 link only has 4 lanes worth of PCIe 3.0 bandwidth, vs. 24 lanes of PCIe 4 available for the PCIe slots in the Mac Pro. They're also quite expensive.

I know a couple of potential Mac Pro buyers still holding on to a faint hope for some sort of M3 Extreme--the mythical 2 x Ultra.
The article is a bit vague but it sounds like Apple may be heading in a different direction - they're talking about a new Ultra chip that isn't just a doubled-up Max. That wouldn't be entirely surprising, since the M3 series has already changed the way regular/max/ultra works.

M1/M2 had two basic die designs: the "regular" and the "max", with the "pro" effectively being a "max" with half the GPU cores and a media engine "chopped off" (maybe not literally - although the code name was the "jade chop"!)

M3 now has distinct die designs for the "pro" and "max" variants, with the max now having more CPU cores and a higher performance:economy core ratio - so its maybe not so unlikely that the new Ultra will also be a new design (esp. if its using a different process) rather than a doubled-up Max. Since the M3 Max seems to be turning in M2 Ultra-like performance, the M3 Ultra is probably worth waiting for (if you need that level of power) even if it's not an "extreme".

OTOH, the current Mac Pro needs the doubled-up design to get the PCIe lanes (they're mostly from the SSD interface on the second die) - maybe Apple will find another way to skin that cat, or maybe the new "doubled up" chip that the article speculates about will be for the Mac Pro.

They could also go for an asymmetrical design with (say) a Max core fused to a GPU chip, as per NVIDIA's Grace/Hopper.

All speculation of course.

That works for some people but for others like me, it's an extra hassle. I always prefer to have a separate desktop and portable device, but then again I do the vast majority of my work at home, and have much lighter needs on my mobile device.
There's still a call for desktops of course, but the move to Apple Silicon has likely taken a huge bite out of the Mac desktop market. With Intel, there was a significant performance gap between the mobile chips in the MBP and the desktop-class chips in the iMacs. With Apple Silicon, until you get to the highest-end "ultra" chip, the MBPs and Mini/Studio all offer the same range of chips with maybe some minor performance gain due to better cooling on the desktops. So if you want separate desktops and laptops for different workflows, that's fine, but if you want your main workflow "on the move" (e.g. you're working 3 days from home and 2 days in the office - increasingly common) a laptop with desktop-class performance can replace two desktops.

Hence: exit the 27" iMac, enter the Studio Display which is fairly obviously designed as a deluxe MacBook docking station first and foremost (half of the expensive internal gubbins is a huge, slimline power supply to charge a laptop).

I have visited several Apple stores in the past year. Interestingly, I have yet to see anyone looking at a Mac Mini or a Mac Studio. They sit there neglected and all alone. Apple looks like they have lost the desktop business.

My Nan used 30 pieces of anecdotal evidence a day, and she lived to be 96! :)

Seriously - although I don't think its contentious that laptops now dominate PC sales, you can't judge the state of Mac desktops by visiting a few iPhone stores and looking at the (lack of) crowds surrounding... a boring silver/grey box doing the same thing as all the MacBooks. If I were buying a laptop - or even an iMac - I might want to go to a store, look at the display, try the keyboard, feel the weight etc. A Mini or Studio? Nothing to see - just order one online (or walk straight up to the sales desk). Half the people in the store will just be browsing anyway - or in there to buy junior a MacBook Air or iPhone for 'back to school', and the phones, watches and laptops are always the interesting thing to look at.

On the other hand, my local independent Apple dealer has a history as AV specialist selling pro studio equipment - they don't actually have a showroom, just a coffee table and rubber plant for people dropping off stuff for repair - but If I could see their sales figures it is plausible that they'd be shifting a disproportionate number of Studios and Mac Pros compared to a high street Apple store. If asked the day after they'd just got the contract to kit out a local TV studio with 5 Mac Pros the data would be grossly inflated... Then there's all of those bulk orders by government and corporations which you can't know because they's be commercially confidential. Note - I'm not saying that proves anything apart from that you can't work out Mac sales figures from one or two random samples, because each will be biassed in some way or another.

Thats why stats like the ones posted earlier in this thread from CIRP should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Apple have accurate sales stats, but they don't share. Anything else is guesswork extrapolated from surveys - and if the link doesn't explain the methodology of the survey, doesn't give confidence intervals, let alone if it doesn't even specify whether "% sales" mean unit sales or revenue then you might as well roll a dice. No, its not a "snapshot" it's not an "estimate" it's not a "straw poll" - it is just not valid data.

...and, yes, that covers 93.7% of all published "statistics". Go figure.
 

soyazul

macrumors 6502
May 18, 2015
297
325
Argentina
I really want to replace my 27" 5k iMac. Can't go back to an iMac though because their displays don't support external connections. The fact that I have to stop using my current display because target display mode isn't a thing on it anymore is unfortunate and extremely environmentally wasteful.

Thought it would be great to hop on a 16/512 Mini and a Studio Display. But now the Studio Display, which is the same thing in my old iMac, is the same price as the iMac is AND it doesn't have a computer attached to it. The price of a 16/512 Mini and a Studio Display is absurd.

If you want to use another display manufacturer, good luck. There's basically nobody that sells 5K, so you have to go with 4K which looks weird, or switch the scaling to a non-native "looks like 5K" resolution which degrades image quality and clarity.

There's basically no reasonable entry point to the Mac ecosystem that doesn't involve paying crazy high prices compared to other manufacturers that can provide better performance for the same price.
You have 5K monitors at better prices... go for one of them
 

BreuerEditor

macrumors 6502
Jul 1, 2008
317
330
New Jersey
I’ve been holding out for more performance so I can make the jump from my 2019 i9 27” iMac with 128GB of RAM to a MacStudio with M3 Max and updated Studio Display but prefer the darker colors. Also holding out for a darker USB-C Magic Mouse and Keyboard.
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,850
7,143
Spain, Europe
Skipping the M3 chip for the Mac mini until the M4 chip is available would make sense since the Mac mini is (reportedly) the least popular Mac model.

View attachment 2357329
Honestly, I find that graph difficult to believe. Yes, laptops are the best selling Macs and that’s no surprise. But the Mac Pro selling ten times more than the mini or the studio? Honestly… it’s confusing at best.
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,850
7,143
Spain, Europe
That would put a huge strain on engineering, on the supply chain, on manufacturing, and on shipping.

And it’s unnecessary.
Right, especially with the low yields that reportedly the N3B process node has.

I’m so eager to see what Apple has planned for the A18/M4 generation… as the mode shrink between N3B and N3E will be minimal. Maybe a deep architectural change? Maybe a bigger investment in Neural Engine and more efficient GPU? Or maybe they will use the N3P for the M4 family…
 
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ElectricPotato

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2018
756
2,077
Seattle
I'd like a new 5K screen eventually, but I'd want it to be 30", not 27".... I must admit though, I was not happy with a 4K 32" screen.

I second this take on size vs resolution.

4K 27" is fine for crispness and size and can't be beat for affordability and availability. I use mine in 1920x1080 HDPI mode, so UI elements are larger than some people like but it is heaven for my older eyes.

I experimented with screen sizes up to 43" (on a desk at ~18"). Beyond 27", I start seeing pixels at 4K and the extra screen falls out of my visual focus and can even be distracting, like lights in my peripheral vision.
 

gigapocket1

macrumors 68020
Mar 15, 2009
2,256
1,742
That would put a huge strain on engineering, on the supply chain, on manufacturing, and on shipping.

And it’s unnecessary.


M3 MacBook Pros came out 5 months ago…. They could have put these in a studio by now at least.
 
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