HomeKit How to change primary Home Hub?

[Feek]

Purely anecdotal.

I have six HomePod minis and two original HomePods here. I also have three AppleTVs, an HD, a 4K (first gen) and a 4K (second gen).

I don't want the AppleTVs being hubs for my home so I've disabled them.

All was well until I decided to go on an energy saving bash and as part of that, at night, the power sockets behind my TV get switched off at night. That includes one of the original HomePods.

My system always seemed to pick that particular HomePod to be the primary one in my home. Almost every time it was switched on, the system would switch to it as the hub and then when it was turned off at the end of the evening, the system would get a bit confused for a few seconds as it changed. The following evening, it'd be turned back on and very often would become the primary again. My smart home didn't seem to like this and I'd find automations might not work, switches could take a long time to respond and sensors would show offline.

I really didn't want this to happen. It was becoming a right pain.

All my HomePods use reserved IP addresses (192.168.1.101 through 192.168.1.108) and that particular one had the lowest address of them all. Following the post I saw in this thread last week, I moved them all around so that the HomePod I switch off every night has the highest reserved address out of the lot.

In the week since I did that, I've not had a single instance of that HomePod being made the controller. Whenever I've checked, it's always been the one with the lowest address and I've gone back to having a good, reliable home where everything works as expected and nice and quickly.

Like I said, it's anecdotal evidence because we don't know the exact logic behind how the primary home hub is selected but all I can say is that this has worked for me.

 

[bbednarz]

You seem to be very knowledgable so maybe you can help me out. As far as hubs go, I have two OG HomePods set as a stereo pair, two HomePod Minis not set as a stereo pair, and three Apple TVs. I have various HomeKit accessories throughout my home and several automations that run daily. One of my automations involves turning on two lamps using WeMo Mini smart plugs. Once in a while I'll notice the lamps didn't turn on. Eventually I found that this happened when my OG HomePods were the hub. So when the lamps didn't turn on I turn them on manually in the Home app and the response is laggy, taking about 3-5 seconds to respond and turn the lamp on. The solution that works for me is to restart the OG HomePods which then has another device take over as the hub. After that the WeMos respond instantly and the lamps turn on. The next day the automation works as intended. Then, a couple weeks or so later it happens again and the process repeats. I have an eero network set up in my house. What settings can I check or change in my eeros that would stop this from happening?

This is the perfect response to people that just point and scream that its the network. And notice they never even replied to try to clarify what they meant, because they have no idea what they meant.

Reddit is the same way. Someone will post for help or a complaint and then you get a pile of people coming in blaming the network. They cant tell you WHAT is wrong, just that it must be your network even thought every other device connected to the network is working fine. Must be a network issue when only the HomePods have issues!

 

[TonyC28]

This is the perfect response to people that just point and scream that its the network. And notice they never even replied to try to clarify what they meant, because they have no idea what they meant.

Reddit is the same way. Someone will post for help or a complaint and then you get a pile of people coming in blaming the network. They cant tell you WHAT is wrong, just that it must be your network even thought every other device connected to the network is working fine. Must be a network issue when only the HomePods have issues!

People get locked into thinking “my devices are fine so if yours are messed up it must be your network.” Our devices may be the same, but the trillions of combinations of settings between mine and yours are probably a touch different.

 

[sparky672]

Our devices may be the same, but the trillions of combinations of settings between mine and yours are probably a touch different.

And the expectation that a system needs to be designed and engineered robust enough to fully account for normal variations is NOT unreasonable.

 

[Itinj24]

So after a solid two weeks of having a solid HomeKit setup, one of my OG HomePods wasn’t having any of that. Told the AppleTV to step aside and took over the responsibilities and duties as the active hub. Well whaddya know? Basic automations (an accessory is controlled, turn on this accessory) stopped working. Lights taking five+ seconds to turn on instead of near instantaneous, Siri playing stupid, cameras going offline etc….

Everything in my house, and I mean everything was working perfectly up until this HomePod took over. How did I know to check if the Hub switched? Because nothing was performing as it should be.

This is an issue with my network? Nah, I refuse to believe that. Even if it was, why in the heck would this HomePod take over and screw everything up when it was working perfectly before that? To be clear, this HomePod was working perfectly as a HomePod before it became the active hub.

For the love of the heavens, Apple, please let us select our active hub!!!

Side note, does anyone have any clue why some hubs have an arrow that looks like you can select it to enter a sub menu but doesn’t do anything? See pic below 👇

 

[sparky672]

This is an issue with my network? Nah, I refuse to believe that. Even if it was, why in the heck would this HomePod take over and screw everything up when it was working perfectly before that? To be clear, this HomePod was working perfectly as a HomePod before it became the active hub.

Would be great for the Network experts to come back to explain this.

Furthermore... after weeks of daily reboots in order to maintain a connection between my Schlage and Apple TV, what possible explanation could there be for it working all day after a router/Apple TV reboot and then stop working overnight?

 

[DaniMol]

In my experience HomeKit automatically selects the ‘connected’ hub based on local IP address: The one with the lowest IP address will become the ‘connected’ one. If that one switches off, the one with the then lowest IP address will become the new ‘connected’ one until the other one switches back on.
So if you want to have a certain device to be the dominant hub, manually set its IP address to the lowest number you can give it (192.168.1.2 or something similar).
In the other case, if you want a certain device not to become the ‘connected’ hub, manually give it the highest IP address you can give it, say 192.168.1.254
You can do this both in the devices themselves or in your router.

It’s been a while since I posted this, and I found out there’s a little more to add to the story.

It has been working flawlessly for me until.. I upgraded my network from having 3 Apple AirPort routers and 2 network switches to 3 mesh routers (and the switches remained).
In both cases these routers are interconnected through Ethernet cables.

My living room Apple TV (the one I want as controlling hub) is connected to a network switch by Ethernet cable, and the switch is connected to my main router.
The office Apple TV (the one I want to never become the controlling hub) is connected to a secondary router by Ethernet cable.
And the bedroom Apple TV (which I also don’t want as controlling hub) is connected to the other secondary router through WiFi.

After my network mesh upgrade my IP address theory stopped working as expected and my office Apple TV became the controlling hub, despite having the highest IP address.. and sometimes the bedroom Apple TV became the controlling hub, despite having the highest IP address -1.

That got me thinking…

Compared to the old situation the only difference between the three Apple TVs is that the living room one is connected through a switch and the other 2 are connected directly to a mesh router, and these 2 routers are seen as one big router apparently.
In the old situation the secondary routers were seen as switches I believe.

So I tested this theory by adding an extra switch between the secondary router in the office and the Apple TV and bingo. No more controlling hub in the office.

But now the bedroom one became the controlling hub every time, until.. the living room Apple TV got a tvOS update and the other two were still on an older version.
I quickly disabled auto updates on both the other Apple TVs and my living room Apple TV is the permanent controlling hub again.
When I restart the living room Apple TV, the office Apple TV becomes the controlling hub, but as soon as the living room one has booted it immediately jumps right back. Every single time.

So in short, in my understanding these 3 things seem to be the deterring factors in making a device the controlling hub:

1: The device which has the highest tvOS version installed

If all devices have the same version installed:

2: The device with the least amount of network switches between the incoming internet connection and the device itself

If all devices are connected through the same amount of network switches:

3: The device with the lowest local IP address

I hope this helps. It did for me

 

[Neil Harrison]

It’s been a while since I posted this, and I found out there’s a little more to add to the story.

It has been working flawlessly for me until.. I upgraded my network from having 3 Apple AirPort routers and 2 network switches to 3 mesh routers (and the switches remained).
In both cases these routers are interconnected through Ethernet cables.

My living room Apple TV (the one I want as controlling hub) is connected to a network switch by Ethernet cable, and the switch is connected to my main router.
The office Apple TV (the one I want to never become the controlling hub) is connected to a secondary router by Ethernet cable.
And the bedroom Apple TV (which I also don’t want as controlling hub) is connected to the other secondary router through WiFi.

After my network mesh upgrade my IP address theory stopped working as expected and my office Apple TV became the controlling hub, despite having the highest IP address.. and sometimes the bedroom Apple TV became the controlling hub, despite having the highest IP address -1.

That got me thinking…

Compared to the old situation the only difference between the three Apple TVs is that the living room one is connected through a switch and the other 2 are connected directly to a mesh router, and these 2 routers are seen as one big router apparently.
In the old situation the secondary routers were seen as switches I believe.

So I tested this theory by adding an extra switch between the secondary router in the office and the Apple TV and bingo. No more controlling hub in the office.

But now the bedroom one became the controlling hub every time, until.. the living room Apple TV got a tvOS update and the other two were still on an older version.
I quickly disabled auto updates on both the other Apple TVs and my living room Apple TV is the permanent controlling hub again.
When I restart the living room Apple TV, the office Apple TV becomes the controlling hub, but as soon as the living room one has booted it immediately jumps right back. Every single time.

So in short, in my understanding these 3 things seem to be the deterring factors in making a device the controlling hub:

1: The device which has the highest tvOS version installed

If all devices have the same version installed:

2: The device with the least amount of network switches between the incoming internet connection and the device itself

If all devices are connected through the same amount of network switches:

3: The device with the lowest local IP address

I hope this helps. It did for me

So if I create the hubs with static IP's set the Apple TV to xxx.xx.xx.15 and the others higher for example ?

 

[DaniMol]

So if I create the hubs with static IP's set the Apple TV to xxx.xx.xx.15 and the others higher for example ?

In my experience yes, but only when all tvOS versions are the same and when they all connect to the same physical router. The IP address is the last determining factor

 

[Debauch]

After yesterday’s update my Apple TV is running the oldest OS so now my HomePods default to being hub and, look at that. This never happens when my AppleTV is hub.

I hate you Apple. Not being able to pick a primary hub is stupid.

 

[iTim314]

After yesterday’s update my Apple TV is running the oldest OS so now my HomePods default to being hub and, look at that. This never happens when my AppleTV is hub.

I hate you Apple. Not being able to pick a primary hub is stupid.

View attachment 2309580

Same here. Apple insists my HomePod mini with the weakest wireless reception be my hub instead of the AppleTV 4K that's connected to a gigabit switch via ethernet. New day, same problem.

 

[DaniMol]

Same here. Apple insists my HomePod mini with the weakest wireless reception be my hub instead of the AppleTV 4K that's connected to a gigabit switch via ethernet. New day, same problem.

Tried switching off auto updates for HomePod OS (or whatever that’s called) and leave it stuck on an older OS version vs. your Apple TV? I’m not familiar with HomePods, but this method does seem to do the trick on my two older HD Apple TVs which I will not update anymore and my 4K Apple TV running the latest version of tvOS.

 

[iTim314]

Tried switching off auto updates for HomePod OS (or whatever that’s called) and leave it stuck on an older OS version vs. your Apple TV? I’m not familiar with HomePods, but this method does seem to do the trick on my two older HD Apple TVs which I will not update anymore and my 4K Apple TV running the latest version of tvOS.

That will work once a couple of tvOS updates are released. Sadly it doesn't help presently.

 

[hardwickj]

Stumbled upon this thread after trying to get my Apple TV (connected w/ 1gb ethernet) to operate as the connected hub. For no obvious reason, HomeKit really wants my HomePods to be the connected hub, despite them having far worse connectivity health.

To begin, HomeKit wanted to use my HomePod mini, despite having absolutely awful connectivity:

Where as my Apple TV...

So I ran a latency test on them both to compare them. First the HomePod:

Then the AppleTV:

Clearly, the Apple TV has better connectivity. Ok, so I remotely disconnect the living room HomePod from my network...wait for the HomeKit to do its reshuffle, and.....it picks my Office HomePod as the hub. I run a test on that...

It has dramatically worse connectivity. That's stupid. Ok, maybe it's pure chance what it picks, so I remotely disconnect all of my HomePods from the network. HomeKit eventually settles on my AppleTV as the hub. Great! I unblock all my HomePods from the network, watch as only one of them successfully reconnects (my Office HomePod, the one with awful connectivity), and suddenly, HomeKit decides it wants to make that one the hub again. WTF?!

Like, there is zero question as to which device has the best connectivity. What the hell is happening here?

 

[hardwickj]

I created issue FB13397540 with Feedback Assistant. I'd suggest everyone part of this thread create an issue, and feel free to reference mine. That's the only way I've found to get any action on non-critical bugs, and even then it's unlikely to get any action unless mass-reported.

 

[b17777]

I wonder if it chooses on what's best for the thread network instead of the WiFi connection ?
I've got two Apple TV's, one hardwired, one WiFi and three HomePod minis. I always kept the hardwired my hub, but after the last update that didn't include software for the ATV's, I've just let them do whatever they want and I haven't really had any issues with anything.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

There has to be something that everyone is missing and the answer cannot be "Apple is just stupid".

1. Apple TV's can have Home Hub disabled, but HomePod cannot. If you use it, its a Home Hub, end of story.
2. You cannot set priority of Home Hubs, because presumably this is not something you're supposed to have to manage. It's supposed to be some form of High Availability configuration where Home access remains available at all times as long as one potential Home Hub is available.
3. In theory, the Home Hub primary should not matter, as all of the qualifying devices should be equally capable of being a Home Hub at any time.

The wrench in this design is that some people's anecdotal experiences suggest that HomePods suck at being Home Hubs in terms of speed of response. And for some inexplicable reason, they cannot be opted out. Were it the other way around and the HomePod could be opted out but not the Apple TV, it appears that this ongoing problem wouldn't be a problem.

So why is it the way it is? Why has Apple done absolutely nothing to address this? Something is missing from this puzzle.

 

[dotme]

1. Apple TV's can have Home Hub disabled, but HomePod cannot. If you use it, its a Home Hub, end of story.

If you're on the New Architecture, I believe Apple TVs can't opt out of being a Home Hub any more. One of the reasons I still haven't upgraded my architecture. I have 14 HomePods, and I don't need ANY more HomeKit hubs.

HomeKit doesn't feel polished, and it's been around for years. The color picker was an abomination for several years, the AirPlay target interface in control center has volume controls that are hard to adjust and stacking causes targets to move position while you're trying to adjust them.

I do think the Hub selection issue is a big problem. HP Mini's are basically Apple Watches, which aren't very powerful and yet are supposed to be able to manage multiple video streams. Get up to 14 HomePods and you're playing whack a mole trying to figure out why an automation didn't run on time...

I wish they'd just make a dedicated Hub and call it good. Like Lutron, Hue, Aqara etc. A dedicated hub could run all automations, and just use AppleTVs and HomePods to relay Thread and BTLE as needed. Would be so much simpler to troubleshoot, you could put it on a UPS if you wanted (I'm not doing that with 14 HomePods) and it could be ethernet-connected.

HomeKit at Apple isn't a money-maker, and maybe that's why at times it feels like it gets little love.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

If you're on the New Architecture, I believe Apple TVs can't opt out of being a Home Hub any more. One of the reasons I still haven't upgraded my architecture. I have 14 HomePods, and I don't need ANY more HomeKit hubs.

HomeKit doesn't feel polished, and it's been around for years. The color picker was an abomination for several years, the AirPlay target interface in control center has volume controls that are hard to adjust and stacking causes targets to move position while you're trying to adjust them.

I do think the Hub selection issue is a big problem. HP Mini's are basically Apple Watches, which aren't very powerful and yet are supposed to be able to manage multiple video streams. Get up to 14 HomePods and you're playing whack a mole trying to figure out why an automation didn't run on time...

I wish they'd just make a dedicated Hub and call it good. Like Lutron, Hue, Aqara etc. A dedicated hub could run all automations, and just use AppleTVs and HomePods to relay Thread and BTLE as needed. Would be so much simpler to troubleshoot, you could put it on a UPS if you wanted (I'm not doing that with 14 HomePods) and it could be ethernet-connected.

HomeKit at Apple isn't a money-maker, and maybe that's why at times it feels like it gets little love.

But then we get posts like this where the person has 14 HomePods on one network AND hasn't updated to the new architecture because they think they know better. I don't know what to say to you, frankly.

 

[dotme]

But then we get posts like this where the person has 14 HomePods on one network AND hasn't updated to the new architecture because they think they know better. I don't know what to say to you, frankly.

I like whole house audio. Is that a problem? Why the snark?

 

[AlastorKatriona]

I like whole house audio. Is that a problem? Why the snark?

Maybe? You don't think having way more than the normal amount of HomePods on a network could possibly be a variable in your scenario? Of course it is.

And then...not updating to the new architecture because you think you're smarter than Apple, and then still complaining about inexplicable problems...there isn't anything else to say there.

 

[dotme]

With respect, what's unusual about wanting stereo audio in 7 rooms in your home? Yes I could have gone Sonos for that, but I loved how the OGs sounded and that was originally why I bought them. Because I have a few Apple TVs too, and I can currently exclude them from being hubs as well, it does make things a little simpler.

New Architecture forces those Apple TVs to be hubs too (My understanding is the option to disable disappears) and I just feel I already have an excessive number of hubs.

I was agreeing with you... if I could disable hub functionality on my HomePods that would be great. Old or New Architecture, there's still a nominated hub running automations and out-of-home control. Not much change really.

Personal attacks about who's smarter, me or some corporation, aren't really helpful. I never made claims there, just sharing what my setup was and how I wished that hub nominations could be managed.

 

[Neil Harrison]

Stumbled upon this thread after trying to get my Apple TV (connected w/ 1gb ethernet) to operate as the connected hub. For no obvious reason, HomeKit really wants my HomePods to be the connected hub, despite them having far worse connectivity health.

To begin, HomeKit wanted to use my HomePod mini, despite having absolutely awful connectivity:
View attachment 2315312

Where as my Apple TV...

View attachment 2315313

So I ran a latency test on them both to compare them. First the HomePod:

View attachment 2315316

Then the AppleTV:

View attachment 2315318


Clearly, the Apple TV has better connectivity. Ok, so I remotely disconnect the living room HomePod from my network...wait for the HomeKit to do its reshuffle, and.....it picks my Office HomePod as the hub. I run a test on that...

View attachment 2315319


It has dramatically worse connectivity. That's stupid. Ok, maybe it's pure chance what it picks, so I remotely disconnect all of my HomePods from the network. HomeKit eventually settles on my AppleTV as the hub. Great! I unblock all my HomePods from the network, watch as only one of them successfully reconnects (my Office HomePod, the one with awful connectivity), and suddenly, HomeKit decides it wants to make that one the hub again. WTF?!

Like, there is zero question as to which device has the best connectivity. What the hell is happening here?

How did you run the latency test? If you don’t mind me asking?

I ask as you have UniFi AP, I run UniFi SW for my aps

 

[Debauch]

There has to be something that everyone is missing and the answer cannot be "Apple is just stupid".

1. Apple TV's can have Home Hub disabled, but HomePod cannot. If you use it, its a Home Hub, end of story.
2. You cannot set priority of Home Hubs, because presumably this is not something you're supposed to have to manage. It's supposed to be some form of High Availability configuration where Home access remains available at all times as long as one potential Home Hub is available.
3. In theory, the Home Hub primary should not matter, as all of the qualifying devices should be equally capable of being a Home Hub at any time.

The wrench in this design is that some people's anecdotal experiences suggest that HomePods suck at being Home Hubs in terms of speed of response. And for some inexplicable reason, they cannot be opted out. Were it the other way around and the HomePod could be opted out but not the Apple TV, it appears that this ongoing problem wouldn't be a problem.

So why is it the way it is? Why has Apple done absolutely nothing to address this? Something is missing from this puzzle.

Quality post right here. Starts out by invalidating other’s experiences with HomeKit then proceed with “presumably”, “in theory”, and “supposed to”.

Yes, in theory you’re not supposed to have to manage home hubs but here we are … HomePods with weak network connections are becoming home hubs and HomeKit networks are becoming unresponsive.

 

[Itinj24]

Maybe? You don't think having way more than the normal amount of HomePods on a network could possibly be a variable in your scenario? Of course it is.

And then...not updating to the new architecture because you think you're smarter than Apple, and then still complaining about inexplicable problems...there isn't anything else to say there.

What exactly is the “normal” amount of HomePods? You do know that not all houses are built exactly the same. Some have more rooms than others. Some have more levels than others. Some have a garage and some don’t, etc… and I’m way below the allotted amount of clients for my multi node, hardwired network.

I have 17 HomePods in total. Where is the documentation from Apple that says what a normal amount is for my home? Did they place an imaginary or undocumented cap on the number of HomePods I can have? Because if there is a cap, I’d be really pissed if Apple let me continue to purchase HomePods without documentation informing me that I may have too many. By the way, the new architecture, which I’m on, has brought its own slew of issues which weren’t present before.

Please explain to me again why HomePods are the only devices that are causing problems on my network. Thanks.

Just from reading your posts, I would bet you have no experience with this stuff and are here as an Apple apologist just to stir the pot. Yes, I will call the Apple HomePod team stupid. With every update comes a variety of new bugs including breaking stuff that used to work. This is the only Apple device out of 14 (this total includes 1/8 AppleTVs and 1/17 HomePods) devices that causes me grief daily. I paid a lot of money for this stuff so I can criticize when it doesn’t work as advertised. I don’t give a crap what they do in the engineering lab or how they do it. I’m a consumer. My only concern is if the product I paid a high premium for works the way it’s being marketed. Well, it’s not… They produce, I pay. End of story.