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iMac'd

macrumors member
Nov 18, 2021
75
16
I'm about 7 months into transitioning from Win. 10 to Mac Monterey and with the exceptions of liking "Notes" and "Voice recorder" makes editing slightly easier - I have otherwise found the Apple to be inferior in almost every aspect e.g. browsers opening with no place to browse; any change in network requiring a re-set of NVRam plus a re-start; having to go into a drop down menu to "Quit" rather than just click on an X; not having a forward delete key on the nicely sized but not ergonomic (near flat) Magic keyboard - nor any option that I've found to re-assign some NEVER used key such as the vertical/forward slash key below it. There were much worse issues initially which were clearly at Apples end - the like of which I've never encountered with any product e.g. false and misleading error type messages.

It's been exhausting; maybe I'll find the energy to look further into screen navigation one day; the last (generally acclaimed) video I watched had two errors in the first 10 minutes. I suspect those who apparently sincerely think that Mac OS is superior generally haven't used it for 15 -20 years and have little or no idea. The lack of any black bezel option on the 24" iMacs is a clear indication that Apple marketing have largely given up on the serious user market; similarly the lack of a fwd delete key generally suggest a market where users don't edit.
 

countermoon

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2021
119
47
I'm about 7 months into transitioning from Win. 10 to Mac Monterey and with the exceptions of liking "Notes" and "Voice recorder" makes editing slightly easier - I have otherwise found the Apple to be inferior in almost every aspect e.g. browsers opening with no place to browse; any change in network requiring a re-set of NVRam plus a re-start; having to go into a drop down menu to "Quit" rather than just click on an X; not having a forward delete key on the nicely sized but not ergonomic (near flat) Magic keyboard - nor any option that I've found to re-assign some NEVER used key such as the vertical/forward slash key below it. There were much worse issues initially which were clearly at Apples end - the like of which I've never encountered with any product e.g. false and misleading error type messages.

It's been exhausting; maybe I'll find the energy to look further into screen navigation one day; the last (generally acclaimed) video I watched had two errors in the first 10 minutes. I suspect those who apparently sincerely think that Mac OS is superior generally haven't used it for 15 -20 years and have little or no idea. The lack of any black bezel option on the 24" iMacs is a clear indication that Apple marketing have largely given up on the serious user market; similarly the lack of a fwd delete key generally suggest a market where users don't edit.
This is a frivolous response. "browsers opening with no place to browse" What?

You're forgetting the biggest reason to avoid Windows. It was designed by a serial killer.
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,073
2,653
e.g. browsers opening with no place to browse;
What does that even mean?
any change in network requiring a re-set of NVRam plus a re-start;
Huh? Maybe your Mac is broken, I've never reset NVRam or even restarted when making changes to network settings.
having to go into a drop down menu to "Quit" rather than just click on an X;
Command-q? Why bother taking the hands of keyboard, move a mouse when all it needs is a shortcut?
not having a forward delete key on the nicely sized but not ergonomic (near flat) Magic keyboard
fn-delete?
nor any option that I've found to re-assign some NEVER used key such as the vertical/forward slash key below it.
Keyboard shortcuts in System Settings?
There were much worse issues initially which were clearly at Apples end
After reading the above, I kinda doubt it. Sounds more like a PEBKAC problem.
I suspect those who apparently sincerely think that Mac OS is superior generally haven't used it for 15 -20 years and have little or no idea.
You mean like someone who can't figure out a keyboard shortcut or thinks it's normal to reboot when making a change to network settings? Oh wait, never mind.
 

countermoon

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2021
119
47
"I suspect those who apparently sincerely think that Mac OS is superior generally haven't used it for 15 -20 years and have little or no idea."

I've used the MacOs my whole life, back to the 1980s. I've used Windows since 3.1. I've used Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Zorin. I programmed in BASIC when I was a kid. So I'm not exactly an amateur.
 

MayaUser

macrumors 68030
Nov 22, 2021
2,893
6,204
What does that even mean?

Huh? Maybe your Mac is broken, I've never reset NVRam or even restarted when making changes to network settings.

Command-q? Why bother taking the hands of keyboard, move a mouse when all it needs is a shortcut?

fn-delete?

Keyboard shortcuts in System Settings?

After reading the above, I kinda doubt it. Sounds more like a PEBKAC problem.

You mean like someone who can't figure out a keyboard shortcut or thinks it's normal to reboot when making a change to network settings? Oh wait, never mind.
its clear those are coming from a long time windows user that tried a day macOS
Since he doesnt know those basics its clear he didnt give macOS a chance for more than a day or two , compared probably with years on windows side
So yea, very fair from his point of view
 
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ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,685
1,058
I'm about 7 months into transitioning from Win. 10 to Mac Monterey and with the exceptions of liking "Notes" and "Voice recorder" makes editing slightly easier - I have otherwise found the Apple to be inferior in almost every aspect e.g. browsers opening with no place to browse; any change in network requiring a re-set of NVRam plus a re-start; having to go into a drop down menu to "Quit" rather than just click on an X; not having a forward delete key on the nicely sized but not ergonomic (near flat) Magic keyboard - nor any option that I've found to re-assign some NEVER used key such as the vertical/forward slash key below it. There were much worse issues initially which were clearly at Apples end - the like of which I've never encountered with any product e.g. false and misleading error type messages.

Aside from the additional option of Safari, MacOS has the same browsers Windows does. I don't know what "browsers opening with no place to browse even means". I have no idea what "false and misleading error type messages" you are referring to.

I don't use an Apple keyboard on my Mac (I prefer a mechanical keyboard). However, I do use the "vertical/forward slash key" every day on both Windows 10 and MacOS but especially on Windows.
For forward delete just use Control-D (Home is Control-A & End is ControlE).

It's been exhausting; maybe I'll find the energy to look further into screen navigation one day; the last (generally acclaimed) video I watched had two errors in the first 10 minutes. I suspect those who apparently sincerely think that Mac OS is superior generally haven't used it for 15 -20 years and have little or no idea. The lack of any black bezel option on the 24" iMacs is a clear indication that Apple marketing have largely given up on the serious user market; similarly the lack of a fwd delete key generally suggest a market where users don't edit.

I have used Windows since Windows 1.0 back in 1998 and have used MacOS for over a decade. I have never reset the NVRam on any Mac I own or have owned.

As for Windows I can't believe that after over 30 years it still has drive letters and .bat files. I am annoyed every day by the inability to delete files another application has open. It still looks like an incoherent mess compared to MacOS.

If you really want black bezels just by the Studio Display and either a Mac Mini or a Mac Studio.
 

iMac'd

macrumors member
Nov 18, 2021
75
16
This is a frivolous response. "browsers opening with no place to browse" What?

You're forgetting the biggest reason to avoid Windows. It was designed by a serial killer.
This is quite common and doesn't seem to be any sort of "fault" - there was nothing but a menu bar with "Chrome" or "Safari" and nothing under any of the nine menu items except/unless there was a URL under Bookmarks or History; it was one of my first shocks with Mac OS when I opened Safari and there was no place to "browse". Migration assistant had however worked well and my bookmarks had come over from my Windows device. I can't replicate the opening of a browser with no area to input a URL but it occurs about once a week; presumably relating to what or how I have closed it previously; its not an intolerable issue - just part of the oddity of Mac OS from my standpoint; maybe hours of study would reveal how this occurs.

The "network change" more specifically was after using a mobile phone as a "hotspot"; I found some advice that stated that losing internet access was common with Mac's and offered 8 solutions; none worked other than temporarily (resetting NV Ram etc.) fortunately another site listed 13 options and I think it was no. 12 that suggested deleting various files somewhere in the system - which I did and I can currently alternate networks.

Waking the device from sleep using the keyboard seems randomly available - even less so on my basic Windows laptop - so maybe this is a complex tech. issue.
 
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LinusR

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2011
332
515
This is quite common and doesn't seem to be any sort of "fault" - there was nothing but a menu bar with "Chrome" or "Safari" and nothing under any of the nine menu items except/unless there was a URL under Bookmarks or History; it was one of my first shocks with Mac OS when I opened Safari and there was no place to "browse". Migration assistant had however worked well and my bookmarks had come over from my Windows device. I can't replicate the opening of a browser with no area to input a URL but it occurs about once a week; presumably relating to what or how I have closed it previously; its not an intolerable issue - just part of the oddity of Mac OS from my standpoint; maybe hours of study would reveal how this occurs.

I’m having a hard time to believe that you actually tried. Literally the first entry in the “File” option in the menu bar is “New Window” in Safari.
 

iMac'd

macrumors member
Nov 18, 2021
75
16
What does that even mean? I can't imagine it as a fault on my device; with Monterey OS recently installed I opened Safari and there was just a menu bar and no apparent option to put in a URL; this led me to try and install Chrome which failed repeatedly so I thought I'd better get an Apple ID and download it from the App. Store. Getting an Apple ID was the most complex IT project I've ever attempted. "It takes two minutes" many might say and so might I now; but I had a particular circumstance that ran into multiple false information from Apple; when I edit the horror story I might include it on this forum; if Apple haven't fixed it following my Feedback it may be reproducible by anyone interested.

Huh? Maybe your Mac is broken, I've never reset NVRam or even restarted when making changes to network settings. Have you used a mobile phone as a "Hotspot?"

Command-q? Why bother taking the hands of keyboard, move a mouse when all it needs is a shortcut?

fn-delete? Two keys for one of the most used functions i.e. like having to press two buttons well apart to turn a light off.

Keyboard shortcuts in System Settings? The only possibility I found was to purchase some app. that would allow that re-assignment and I think it was an expensive package.

After reading the above, I kinda doubt it. Sounds more like a PEBKAC problem.

You mean like someone who can't figure out a keyboard shortcut or thinks it's normal to reboot when making a change to network settings? Oh wait, never mind.
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,413
7,018
Serbia
Windows has everything and more than every OS out there.
It's easy to use and EVERY PROGRAM/APP works on Windows.

So many apps I use daily don't work on Windows.

nope I don't have that but I have an OS that gets my job done in a fast and easy way and Windows is freedom
unlike macOS where everything is so restrictive.

In what way is Windows less restrictive than macOS? In my experience it is the opposite.


Hey, you do you - you have every right to prefer Windows to macOS - but why post it here? Is this supposed to mean anything to the rest of us? I mean, if I tell you that I wouldn't go back to Windows on my personal computer if I got payed to use it - would that mean anything to you? No? Exactly.

Enjoy what you like, it's really ok :)
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,413
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I suspect those who apparently sincerely think that Mac OS is superior generally haven't used it for 15 -20 years and have little or no idea. The lack of any black bezel option on the 24" iMacs is a clear indication that Apple marketing have largely given up on the serious user market; similarly the lack of a fwd delete key generally suggest a market where users don't edit.

I use Windows 11 on my work computer daily and I know it quite well. I sincerely think that macOS is superior. It's not even close.

And are you seriously basing your idea that Apple has given up on "serious user market" (whatever that is) because their 24" iMacs have white bezels? Wow.

I love it how unsecure PC users can get, that they have to say these things like "Macs aren't for sErIoUs work". That's really something.
 
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exoticSpice

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Jan 9, 2022
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So many apps I use daily don't work on Windows.



In what way is Windows less restrictive than macOS? In my experience it is the opposite.


Hey, you do you - you have every right to prefer Windows to macOS - but why post it here? Is this supposed to mean anything to the rest of us? I mean, if I tell you that I wouldn't go back to Windows on my personal computer if I got payed to use it - would that mean anything to you? No? Exactly.

Enjoy what you like, it's really ok :)
Try installing a wifi driver in macOS 12 if you want use a better wifi dongle than what Apple's inbuilt wifi provides. It's very hard because macOS always blocks the installation even if you enable the driver in Security Pref.

macOS does not allow the use of Nvidia cards and Apple does not support Nvidia thru eGPUs. I can use my RTX 3070 in Windows under bootcamp but cannot in macOS.

Windows does not that far when installing apps that are not signed by Microsoft. In macOS if I was to install an app not signed by Apple I have to out my way to accept in System Pref and then I have to go to security panel. Apple can make it easy and have that option when opening the app but they don't do that.
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,413
7,018
Serbia
This is quite common and doesn't seem to be any sort of "fault" - there was nothing but a menu bar with "Chrome" or "Safari" and nothing under any of the nine menu items except/unless there was a URL under Bookmarks or History; it was one of my first shocks with Mac OS when I opened Safari and there was no place to "browse".

Erm.... what?

What do you mean "there's no place to browse"? Are you saying you're not seeing the Address Bar? What kind of weird Safari are you using?


I found some advice that stated that losing internet access was common with Mac's


Lol, what?


Waking the device from sleep using the keyboard seems randomly available - even less so on my basic Windows laptop - so maybe this is a complex tech. issue.

Randomly available?

Again - what?
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,413
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Serbia
Try installing a wifi driver in macOS 12 if you want use a better wifi dongle than what Apple's inbuilt wifi provides. It's very hard because macOS always blocks the installation even if you enable the driver in Security Pref.

Why in Thor's name would I want to do that?

But ok, if you need that, and it doesn't work - I don't know. I never used a wifi dongle with any of my Macs.


macOS does not allow the use of Nvidia cards and Apple does not support Nvidia thru eGPUs. I can use my RTX 3070 in Windows under bootcamp but cannot in macOS.

Well, ok, obviously you have a specific need where Windows is better suited. It's also better for gaming. It's worse for a lot of other things. Depends on what you need/want.


Windows does not that far when installing apps that are not signed by Microsoft.

Yeah, Windows is not really secure - what you gonna do.
 
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LinusR

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2011
332
515
@iMac’d
What does that even mean? I can't imagine it as a fault on my device; with Monterey OS recently installed I opened Safari and there was just a menu bar and no apparent option to put in a URL; this led me to try and install Chrome which failed repeatedly so I thought I'd better get an Apple ID and download it from the App. Store. Getting an Apple ID was the most complex IT project I've ever attempted. "It takes two minutes" many might say and so might I now; but I had a particular circumstance that ran into multiple false information from Apple; when I edit the horror story I might include it on this forum; if Apple haven't fixed it following my Feedback it may be reproducible by anyone interested.

Huh? Maybe your Mac is broken, I've never reset NVRam or even restarted when making changes to network settings. Have you used a mobile phone as a "Hotspot?"

Command-q? Why bother taking the hands of keyboard, move a mouse when all it needs is a shortcut?

fn-delete? Two keys for one of the most used functions i.e. like having to press two buttons well apart to turn a light off.

Keyboard shortcuts in System Settings? The only possibility I found was to purchase some app. that would allow that re-assignment and I think it was an expensive package.

After reading the above, I kinda doubt it. Sounds more like a PEBKAC problem.

You mean like someone who can't figure out a keyboard shortcut or thinks it's normal to reboot when making a change to network settings? Oh wait, never mind.

There’s very little detail in everything you’re writing. What was difficult about settgin up an Apple ID? how did the Chrome install fail? I’m using Mobile Hotspot daily and it works flawlessly every time (anecdotal, yes, but it shows that your blanket statement is not true).

And for Safari/Chrome: Command-N is your friend.
 
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exoticSpice

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Yeah, Windows is not really secure - what you gonna do.
macOS also offers the ability to run unsigned apps but you have go through hoops in system pref to do so.

unsigned apps does not mean they are bad. Majority of time they are open source apps like Blender or Qbittorrent so I don't know what you mean by Windows being not secure.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
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Windows 11 Home: requires internet connectivity and Microsoft online account on first time set up. Need workarounds to avoid that. And seems like even the Pro version will follow the same faith.
MacOS: doesn't require internet connectivity nor Apple ID on first time setup, I can immediately create local admin account.

By that virtue alone, macOS has become "better" in my book. An OS shouldn't be requiring any online accounts for basic functionality, let alone first time setup. Nobody else do this other than Microsoft. Even Android doesn't require Google account for first time setup. WTF was Microsoft thinking?
 
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exoticSpice

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Windows 11 Home: requires internet connectivity and Microsoft online account on first time set up. Need workarounds to avoid that. And seems like even the Pro version will follow the same faith.
MacOS: doesn't require internet connectivity nor Apple ID on first time setup, I can immediately create local admin account.

By that virtue alone, macOS has become "better" in my book. An OS shouldn't be requiring any online accounts for basic functionality, let alone first time setup. Nobody else do this other than Microsoft. Even Android doesn't require Google account for first time setup. WTF was Microsoft thinking?
It's not a big deal it. Just create a fake MS account and then sign out of it. Then after proceed to make a local account in Settings.

Well in iOS you are forced to use an Apple ID you want to use new download/native iOS apps. I don't see Android, windows having that requirement.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
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It's not a big deal it. Just create a fake MS account and then sign out of it. Then after proceed to make a local account in Settings.

Well in iOS you are forced to use an Apple ID you want to use new download/native iOS apps. I don't see Android, windows having that requirement.
Not a big deal? It is a big deal as may things will be associated with that account. On most OEMs, you get a free Office where the license will be tied to the online account you used. If you are faking it, it will create a lot more hassles in the future as that fake account can be compromised without you knowing and it has ties to the machine. In short, it's BS. It shouldn't even be a requirement for first time setup.

I cannot believe people are willing to be hassled like that.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
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Not a big deal? It is a big deal as may things will be associated with that account. On most OEMs, you get a free Office where the license will be tied to the online account you used. If you are faking it, it will create a lot more hassles in the future as that fake account can be compromised without you knowing and it has ties to the machine. In short, it's BS. It shouldn't even be a requirement for first time setup.

I cannot believe people are willing to be hassled like that.
Yeah ok. Forced Microsoft account at login is bad and horrible.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors G3
Oct 27, 2009
8,780
10,844
It's not a big deal it. Just create a fake MS account and then sign out of it. Then after proceed to make a local account in Settings.

Well in iOS you are forced to use an Apple ID you want to use new download/native iOS apps. I don't see Android, windows having that requirement.

You can setup without internet connection, and create local account option will appear. MS is good at hiding options.
 
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