iMac redesign? [Merged]

[askunk]

Comet Lake Core i3-10100 Desktop CPU Benchmark Surfaces - Has Hyper threading

Fore years things in the processor market have been a bit, may I say dull? with intel on the consumer desktop processor front. AMD certainly changed that. The latest news is now that Core i3 processor...

www.guru3d.com

Comet Lake S lab samples make their appearance. In line, it seems, with a 51-52 week 2019 production start and a late Feb market appearance.

Apple could have an early batch and present a Mac by January, but I might be just day dreaming.

They will have to redesign the iMac: ditching the HDD the cooling and real estate available are easier to manage, WiFi 6 will need new antennas, BT 5.0 likewise. A new 1080p cam, a Tx chip and maybe FaceID. A true 10bit HDR screen with Dolby Atmos 2.1 system and come on, a mouse that doesn't need to stay tits up when charging.

 

[Pro7913]

I'm thinking we'll only get a spec bump this year actually. But I would expect a redesign with Thunderbolt 4, PCIe 4, USB 4 in 2020 or maybe 2021

TB4 is not even planned yet. PCIe 4 wont be available for several years.

 

[Pro7913]

There isnt any news about the new iMac. They didnt change the design since 2012 and it is disappointing. Since they are releasing updated iMac every 2 years, we probably need to wait for another 2 years.

But they probably need to redesign their iMac series because macOS Catalina's features arent supported such as HDR.

 

[askunk]

But they probably need to redesign their iMac series because macOS Catalina's features arent supported such as HDR.

The iMac 2019 supports HDR. It's the iMP that does not and needs a serious update.

I would put security (T2 chip) ahead of OS requirements, which comes with the ditching of HDDs. Therefore, a redesign.

 

[Sam Marks]

The main barrier for the iMac Pro 2 launch is the new Mac Pro 2019.

Apple will not let a new and updated iMac Pro 2 canibalize the sales of the new Mac Pro.

I see two options: 1. Apple will not continue the iMac Pro line to promote only the Mac Pro, 2. They delay several years more the update of the new iMac Pro 2. I hope that my prediction is wrong, of course.

 

[xgman]

The main barrier for the iMac Pro 2 launch is the new Mac Pro 2019.

Apple will not let a new and updated iMac Pro 2 canibalize the sales of the new Mac Pro.

I see two options: 1. Apple will not continue the iMac Pro line to promote only the Mac Pro, 2. They delay several years more the update of the new iMac Pro 2. I hope that my prediction is wrong, of course.

This is silly. Look at the rest of Apple's product line, and it is clear they are not thinking along these lines.

 

[casperes1996]

TB4 is not even planned yet. PCIe 4 wont be available for several years.

PCIe 4.0 is already available right now on Zen 2 chips.

 

[Sam Marks]

This is silly. Look at the rest of Apple's product line, and it is clear they are not thinking along these lines.

In my opinion, if they update the iMac Pro in 2019 with better specifications than the base current iMac Pro for a lot of users could be interesting to choose the iMac Pro 2 for $5,000 than the base Mac Pro ($11,000 including the screen but with a Radeon 580X, 256GB SSD, 32GB RAM and 8 Core Xenon CPU). Of course, a company with $25,000 to spend in a pro video editing worstation would get the BTO Mac Pro. But there are freelancers or small businesses that would not choose the Mac Pro as a first option.

An example, when Apple updated the iMac in 2019 they included for the top of the range options only the optional Vega 48 (instead of the Vega 56 or the Vega VII, with upgraded cooling system) and only 2 TB ports (instead of 4 as in the rest of the Macs) and no 10Gb Ethernet port (even optional as in the Mac Mini). I think that they designed the 2019 iMac upgrade in order not to compete too close with the 2017 base iMac Pro. But could be only a coincidence.

 

[Pro7913]

PCIe 4.0 is already available right now on Zen 2 chips.

Not Intel and they dont have a plan to support it yet.
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The iMac 2019 supports HDR. It's the iMP that does not and needs a serious update.

I would put security (T2 chip) ahead of OS requirements, which comes with the ditching of HDDs. Therefore, a redesign.

You don't know how HDR works. It requires at least 1000nit of brightness like Apple XDR monitor.

 

[casperes1996]

Not Intel and they dont have a plan to support it yet.

Does not mean PCIe 4.0 is not "available". It most certainly is. And anything is possible with semi-custom. Plus Intel needs to catch up soon so they'll need to move fast. And I bear some hope that Apple will be willing to try an AMD Mac. Wouldn't require very much work to macOS to make it work. Same instruction set. It would work right out of the box, but some tweaking to GCD would be required for optimal performance.

You don't know how HDR works. It requires at least 1000nit of brightness like Apple XDR monitor.

Incorrect. There are three DisplayHDR certifications by the VESA that require less than 1000 nits of brightness. The iMac could qualify for the DisplayHDR 600 cert.

Vesa Certified DisplayHDR™

displayhdr.org

 

[Pro7913]

Does not mean PCIe 4.0 is not "available". It most certainly is. And anything is possible with semi-custom. Plus Intel needs to catch up soon so they'll need to move fast. And I bear some hope that Apple will be willing to try an AMD Mac. Wouldn't require very much work to macOS to make it work. Same instruction set. It would work right out of the box, but some tweaking to GCD would be required for optimal performance.



Incorrect. There are three DisplayHDR certifications by the VESA that require less than 1000 nits of brightness. The iMac could qualify for the DisplayHDR 600 cert.

Vesa Certified DisplayHDR™

displayhdr.org

Mac uses Intel. Why do you care about AMD for? Also, AMD does not able to use TB3 officially.

In order to edit HDR videos, you need at least 1000 nit. 600 nit from iMac wont work. Even iMac has HDR 600, it's not even close to 1000 nit.

 

[casperes1996]

Mac uses Intel. Why do you care about AMD for? Also, AMD does not able to use TB3 officially.

Because currently AMD offers the best chips on the market. Ryzen chips don't just offer more cores at any given price point, Zen2 offers better IPC too. I doubt it'll happen, but it'd be epic (though not EPYC)

In order to edit HDR videos, you need at least 1000 nit. 600 nit from iMac wont work. Even iMac has HDR 600, it's not even close to 1000 nit.

Not the point. HDR600 is still HDR. And you can edit 4K with a 1080p monitor. You should ideally have a reference monitor so you know what your output will actually be like to those who view it on a display capable of showing it fully, but it's possible. Similarly, editing HDR content, you can edit based on your scopes.

 

[Pro7913]

Because currently AMD offers the best chips on the market. Ryzen chips don't just offer more cores at any given price point, Zen2 offers better IPC too. I doubt it'll happen, but it'd be epic (though not EPYC)



Not the point. HDR600 is still HDR. And you can edit 4K with a 1080p monitor. You should ideally have a reference monitor so you know what your output will actually be like to those who view it on a display capable of showing it fully, but it's possible. Similarly, editing HDR content, you can edit based on your scopes.

Then too bad. macOS is heavily optimized for Intel CPU and I really dont think that Apple wishes to change everything. Also, Intel still owns TB3 so if they deny or reject TB3 technology, then Apple is doomed.

Do you even aware that all iMac with 5k monitor shares identical hardware since 2015? I think it is time to change everything by using 1000 nit monitor for true HDR.

 

[askunk]

Because currently AMD offers the best chips on the market. Ryzen chips don't just offer more cores at any given price point, Zen2 offers better IPC too. I doubt it'll happen, but it'd be epic (though not EPYC)

It makes perfect sense. Apple has ditched IBM for Intel for exactly the same reasons, but they didn't have any plan to develop custom silicon on their own, at the time.
Now it would be quite risky to switch supplier, given Intel provide early batches to Apple and custom versions on their chips. Besides, so far AMD has problems in delivering volume on time.
In a year or two, Apple could come out with the first Apple chip for notebooks, and very soon a desktop version. Switching suppliers, motherboards, chipsets and redefining the internal process would just be a cost now.

 

[guzhogi]

Does not mean PCIe 4.0 is not "available". It most certainly is. And anything is possible with semi-custom. Plus Intel needs to catch up soon so they'll need to move fast. And I bear some hope that Apple will be willing to try an AMD Mac. Wouldn't require very much work to macOS to make it work. Same instruction set. It would work right out of the box, but some tweaking to GCD would be required for optimal performance.

And, looks like PCIe 5.0 has been released earlier this year, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. If rumors of Apple making its own desktop ARM CPU, I'm curious to see which version of PCIe & Thunderbolt it would support?

As for iMac specific redesign, I'd like to see smaller bezels & chin, and movable display, ala G4 iMac or Microsoft Surface Pro. I wouldn't mind the iMac Pro's having a touchscreen with Apple Pencil support.

 

[casperes1996]

And, looks like PCIe 5.0 has been released earlier this year, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. If rumors of Apple making its own desktop ARM CPU, I'm curious to see which version of PCIe & Thunderbolt it would support?

Yes, but that's a specification not an implementation. From a spec is official to devices implement it always takes some time. But PCIe 6.0 is in v0.3 already, with predicted readiness for 2021. There have also been leaked specs for an Intel Server socket supporting PCIe 5.0.
Thunderbolt is an Intel specification though. They've loosened the restraints a bit with TB3, but it's still something that requires working with Intel to get working. Though TB3 is all but given to the USB group for next gen USB.

 

[JimmyG]

>snip<
I think it is time to change everything by using 1000 nit monitor for true HDR.

+1 on this sentiment, high time to finally move the needle for HDR content creators with a proper DisplayHDR 1000 or 1400 display for iMac (and MBP, too), IMHO.

 

[askunk]

+1 on this sentiment, high time to finally move the needle for HDR content creators with a proper DisplayHDR 1000 or 1400 display for iMac (and MBP, too), IMHO.

1000 would be bliss. 1400... I doubt it. The XDR is capable of 1000 nits continously, it's bloody expensive and requires a huge cooling system. Not exactly what you are looking for, when you have to thermal manage an AIO.

 

[Moonjumper]

I found this concept of an updated iMac G4. I love it. Not so keen on the touchscreen keyboard, but the computer itself. Amazing!

iMac G4 New Edition

The iMac G4 New Edition is a concept based on the original and iconic iMac G4 designed by J.Ive. This concept wants to imagine the evolution of this product, using materials and technologies, to be integrated into the new ecosystem of Apple products.

www.behance.net

 

[Freida]

The screen looks great but the concept is very unlikely. The design elements are outdated so it will not look like that but something along the lines wouldn't be that bad. I still think though that we will see most/all behind the screen. Unless they create Mac mini like base
Round is not happening though

I found this concept of an updated iMac G4. I love it. Not so keen on the touchscreen keyboard, but the computer itself. Amazing!

iMac G4 New Edition

The iMac G4 New Edition is a concept based on the original and iconic iMac G4 designed by J.Ive. This concept wants to imagine the evolution of this product, using materials and technologies, to be integrated into the new ecosystem of Apple products.

www.behance.net

 

[askunk]

Besides, the thermal management is dreadful, both for the Mac and the screen. It would have only worked with an underclocked G4

 

[Moonjumper]

Besides, the thermal management is dreadful, both for the Mac and the screen. It would have only worked with an underclocked G4

What is wrong with the thermal management of the screen? It is the same in front as the current model, and does not have hot computer components behind. It is no worse than any laptop screen.

The base could have better cooling, but it already looks to have a greater area of venting than the current model.

 

[Steve121178]

It wouldn't take much to give the iMac a modern redesign.

Trim the bezels down, allow people to choose Space Gray as an option, beef up the speakers and we're done.

In terms of specification, for the premium price we pay for iMacs then 256GB drives should really be the base level storage as standard.

 

[askunk]

What is wrong with the thermal management of the screen? It is the same in front as the current model, and does not have hot computer components behind. It is no worse than any laptop screen.

Everybody here expects a brighter screen than a laptop. You wouldn't be able to cool a 1000 nits screen without at least a passive venting system.

 

[Moonjumper]

Everybody here expects a brighter screen than a laptop. You wouldn't be able to cool a 1000 nits screen without at least a passive venting system.

The iMac got a brighter screen last year that raised it to 500 nits. I have my older iMac at only 50% brightness, which is plenty for most uses.

Higher brightness screen for HDR would be nice, but it might not happen because of the cost, although even then, thickness depends on the technology. The new Apple Pro monitor uses Mini-LED backlighting, which generates a lot of heat. Mini-LED is almost certainly too expensive for an iMac. Look at many HDR TVs and you will see only the bottom half is thick to cool the electronics. They would be thicker all the way up if it was to cool the screen itself.