Everyone has talked a lot about how the iPhone 12 mini isn’t selling that well. One of the main issues seems to be that Apple sells a pretty small, very good iPhone at $300 less - iPhone SE. With the iPhone 12 mini not selling that well, there is a chance Apple won’t make a mini flagship phone in 2022 and beyond. But where does that leave the SE in the future? Does Apple just update the current SE with new internals, sticking with a popular formula? Do they move to the iPhone 11 or iPhone 12 mini form factors? Do they give up? IPhone SE 2 is a cool little phone that serves a market and will be relevant for a while - I hope they update it as is...
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iPhone SE (2016) IPhone SE 2 seems more popular than iPhone 12 mini - implications?
- Thread starter Adelphos33
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I think its shortsighted to only blame the SE, though it certainly did contribute, there's a bigger story at play IMO. The people who are buying the SE and the mini are different markets IMO. SE is the cheapest phone possible, the mini is a premium device in a small package. The people who are buying the SE aren't necessarily small phone exclusive (though there will be people among them who are). I feel as though the iPhone 11 is a much bigger barrier for success for the 12 mini than the SE. Look at Christmas day activations for the 11. We also have the XR for people even more price conscious.
These are entirely different devices and I doubt the SE2 has any impact on the iPhone 12 mini. Consumers are not cross-shopping between $399 and $699 devices.
What's likely happening is consumers are simply buying the iPhone 12. Apple introduced the mini at $699 as a 5G starting point. It's too much of a compromise to have a 5.4" display in 2021 when the acceptable option for a 6.1" is only $130 more.
The SE2 Plus is likely moving to the XR/11 body. It has the largest economies of scale. It's a chassis that everybody in the world is familiar with. The XR/11 has the largest number of installed base of customers compared to every other iPhone.
- $399 vs. $699
- 4G vs. 5G
- single-lens vs. dual lens
- thick bezel vs. full screen
What's likely happening is consumers are simply buying the iPhone 12. Apple introduced the mini at $699 as a 5G starting point. It's too much of a compromise to have a 5.4" display in 2021 when the acceptable option for a 6.1" is only $130 more.
The SE2 Plus is likely moving to the XR/11 body. It has the largest economies of scale. It's a chassis that everybody in the world is familiar with. The XR/11 has the largest number of installed base of customers compared to every other iPhone.
I think what people forget is that apple was still selling the iPhone 8 up until the release of the SE. Why would everyone go to the SE because of its small form factor, when the 8 was still in sale and had an identical form factor? It wasn't a unique form factor like the mini. What was unique about it, was its low price, combined with a flagship processor and camera improvements, which helped folks with less disposable income get into the eco system and encouraged android switchers.
More like same long-cycle upgraders-market, IMO; the ones that wants the smallest screen possible.
The SE came out first for these people starving for a new device, so they got the SE; and it'll take these people like 3-4 years before they get a new device, not months later just because there's a pro mini.
Couldn't agree more. Some people act as if the SE2 was a renaissance in small phone design that gobbled away iPhone 12 mini sales. In reality, it was a refreshed iPhone 8. The SE2 was introduced the same day the iPhone 8 was discontinued.
Consumers continued to buy SE2 even after the mini was made available. They either bought the $399 SE2 or stepped up to a 6.1"+ device. There was simply no interest in the mini.
I'm not voting in the poll because its premise is unproven (and, I suspect, wrong): what's the basis for saying the SE is more popular than the mini? The fact that the mini is not selling well says nothing about the SE's sales.
Moreover, if the premise is correct and the SE is selling better, I think it's a very reasonable assumption that it would be almost entirely due to the $300 price difference between the devices, so I'm not sure what conclusions one could draw from that other than "you're probably going to sell a lot of the cheapest phone in the lineup."
Moreover, if the premise is correct and the SE is selling better, I think it's a very reasonable assumption that it would be almost entirely due to the $300 price difference between the devices, so I'm not sure what conclusions one could draw from that other than "you're probably going to sell a lot of the cheapest phone in the lineup."
Apple are definitely not going to stop making SE devices thats for sure, in fact they are expanding it (Apple Watch SE). The SE brand sells very well due to its lower cost, and many people are happy with its concept (old design with current internals). You could even argue that in relation to Ipad Pro's, the ipad Air is actually a SE device (uses previous Ipad Pro chassis with modern A chip like the Air 3 and Air 4).
The original iPhone SE was my first ever iPhone back in 2016; great device which helped get me into iPhones at a time when I was a poor student strapped for cash. I think the rumored SE3 will be a huge hit, bigger than either the 2016 or 2020 variants.
Yes im sure the SE3 will be a huge hit, but i just cant fathom how it will look like. Some rumours say it will be an 8 Plus with touch id on the power button, and others point to it being based on the XR/11 chassis. Personally i find the 8 Plus with power button touch id the most intriguing, and will buy one for sure. I do love my SE 2020 though, there is just something about that classic design...
I think the SE is so popular compared to the Mini for two reason. First is price. Secondly, and I think this is the real reason and I wonder if Apple doesn't realize this, but many people refuse to use the gesture system and thus refuse to give up the home button (both for navigation and unlocking the phone).
I know where I work people are buying the 2020 SE in a ratio of probably 4 to 1 compared to the 11 and 12 series. They don't want to give up the home button for navigation simple as that.
I know where I work people are buying the 2020 SE in a ratio of probably 4 to 1 compared to the 11 and 12 series. They don't want to give up the home button for navigation simple as that.
I agree that the (possibly) next SE3 will have a similar body to the XR/11 though if it will have touchID I hope that it will lose the notch (and hope it has the same edges/sides as the 12 lineup)
Not to mention that while the 12 mini was the first 5.4 inch in its lineup, SE2 has been using the same chassis going back around 7 years so yeah people would be familiar to the design and shape of the SE, 12 mini is on another scale
You have to remember the timeline. For a long long time, those of us with the SE were told that our phones were the last of their kind. Everything else would be bigger. This came true when the SE2 came out. I can't remember any rumours from that time mentioning a 12 mini in the pipeline. The SE2 in the 8 shell was going to be the new smallest phone. So I bought one. I think many others did too.
Fast forward to the iPhone 12 launch and suddenly there's a mini one!!
Well I wasn't going to sell my brand new phone for a 12 mini and certainly not when I would have to pay a lot more to get one.
Looking back, I have no regrets at all in buying my SE2 but I think Apple made a mistake in what they offered us small-phone owners and when. They split that market.
Fast forward to the iPhone 12 launch and suddenly there's a mini one!!
Well I wasn't going to sell my brand new phone for a 12 mini and certainly not when I would have to pay a lot more to get one.
Looking back, I have no regrets at all in buying my SE2 but I think Apple made a mistake in what they offered us small-phone owners and when. They split that market.
I never thought of getting the SE or the SE2, but I knew I wanted the Mini when it was released. Maybe slow sales also have to do with some people upgrading to the SE2 and now don’t want to spend even more money on the Mini.
I hope the Mini stays as it really is my favorite iPhone.
I hope the Mini stays as it really is my favorite iPhone.
Touch ID on power button will certainly mean the removal of the notch. The notch cut is expensive because it lowers the yield of LCD.
Those die-hard small phone users were probably aware of the mini. The first news about 5.42" came out in early 2019 from DigiTimes. Then Korean news reports called it in late 2019. Then Kuo.
If you look at the data, the SE2 attracted a lot of Android switchers and it wasn't a coincidence. The $399 price tag was very attractive. Most consumers don't cross shop between $399 and $699 devices.
The mini came in 2nd when I bought a new main phone last year. Went with the Pro because of the better camera. (But not Max since too big in my opinion).
Also, I could afford the Pro while just grimacing some
But for a backup phone, the SE has its benefits over the mini. The cost factor.
Also, I could afford the Pro while just grimacing some
But for a backup phone, the SE has its benefits over the mini. The cost factor.
XR at 499 and iphone 11 at 599 are also to blame more to be honest...
I have the SE 2020 for work but still too small for normal use for me but works well for what I use it for
I have the SE 2020 for work but still too small for normal use for me but works well for what I use it for
Interesting chart. It says there were device activations for iPhone 8 / 8 plus. Where are people buying those?
Also the 12 mini is completely missing. One thought is that they might have clubbed 12 and 12 mini in the same bucket, but they broke out 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max so it wouldn't make sense for 12 mini to be part of 12.
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As to the poll, based on rumors it looks like the next SE would be based off the 11/XR so that's the option I picked, but it's not the option I want. The one I want is an update to the 2016 SE.
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Implications: the driver is low price.
The pricing is totally out of whack for iPhones. Currently Apple has the SE, XR, 11 and 12 Mini all available. Choice is great, but with too much choice, some products are bound to suffer. At $100 more for the regular 12 and $100 less for the 11, the 12 Mini just seems out of place. IMO, they should axe the 11 and reduce the 12 Mini to $600 and XR to $400 and SE to $300.
My choice: none of the above ??♂️
They’re not going to stop making a phone that made up 6% of 100 million iPhones. That’s a LOT of phones.
Secondly, when people go back to normal life (go to work, go to school) and need the portability again, the Mini will seem more enticing. Same goes for the usefulness of FaceID.
Right now, bigger is OK, and everyone wants TouchID.
It will all go back to normal eventually.
They’re not going to stop making a phone that made up 6% of 100 million iPhones. That’s a LOT of phones.
Secondly, when people go back to normal life (go to work, go to school) and need the portability again, the Mini will seem more enticing. Same goes for the usefulness of FaceID.
Right now, bigger is OK, and everyone wants TouchID.
It will all go back to normal eventually.
The 'SE' means for Apple:
'Our lowest priced phone that we can make to give us at least 30% profit - with low support costs for next 5 years.
To achieve this, we'll repurpose cheap to run older assembly lines using cheap to order older lower cost parts (combined with a few new parts that we have ordered at mass scale so that our support costs and iOS technical debt is reduced).
This will result in us using a ~3-5 year old form factor and UX that we'd be comfortable selling - we don't do low end or slow iPhones.'
This almost certainly means that it'll be an iPhone 11 hybrid - when the cost of the first gen FaceID module is negligible for them & when the top end models have shifted to the next gen FaceID unit. So likely March 2022.
However: I wouldn't be surprised if we see a iPhone SE Plus launching this year.
I bet that the SE2 has been a huge success and with the pandemic taking a hit everywhere, people will still be in the market for a nice big screen phone at a lower cost with the latest processor & camera.
One snag is that this would likely sit at the same price point as the XR. However, the XR is starting to get old and slow.
So maybe Apple might feel that a iPhone SE Plus would provide a better bang for your buck & replace the XR.
This would push the FaceID phones up to being a premium feature with higher pricing i.e. the 11 would be the starting point for those wanting the next gen iPhone.
'Our lowest priced phone that we can make to give us at least 30% profit - with low support costs for next 5 years.
To achieve this, we'll repurpose cheap to run older assembly lines using cheap to order older lower cost parts (combined with a few new parts that we have ordered at mass scale so that our support costs and iOS technical debt is reduced).
This will result in us using a ~3-5 year old form factor and UX that we'd be comfortable selling - we don't do low end or slow iPhones.'
This almost certainly means that it'll be an iPhone 11 hybrid - when the cost of the first gen FaceID module is negligible for them & when the top end models have shifted to the next gen FaceID unit. So likely March 2022.
However: I wouldn't be surprised if we see a iPhone SE Plus launching this year.
I bet that the SE2 has been a huge success and with the pandemic taking a hit everywhere, people will still be in the market for a nice big screen phone at a lower cost with the latest processor & camera.
One snag is that this would likely sit at the same price point as the XR. However, the XR is starting to get old and slow.
So maybe Apple might feel that a iPhone SE Plus would provide a better bang for your buck & replace the XR.
This would push the FaceID phones up to being a premium feature with higher pricing i.e. the 11 would be the starting point for those wanting the next gen iPhone.
If the mini and the SE cost the same amount and were just different form factors I’d go for the mini. But it wasn’t worth the extra money for me. I wanted a small phone and the SE fit that requirement as well as my price point.