iPhone SE (2016) IPhone SE 2 seems more popular than iPhone 12 mini - implications?

[rui no onna]

Those die-hard small phone users were probably aware of the mini. The first news about 5.42" came out in early 2019 from DigiTimes. Then Korean news reports called it in late 2019. Then Kuo.

If you look at the data, the SE2 attracted a lot of Android switchers and it wasn't a coincidence. The $399 price tag was very attractive. Most consumers don't cross shop between $399 and $699 devices.

Aware, certainly. Battery was already super bad on our iPhone SE1 and 7 though and OLED is iffy since I get migraines so I bought the SE2 asap. Just could afford to wait any longer. Prior to the SE2's release, I was prepared to buy the iPhone 8. Blessing in disguise, it was never in stock at Apple's refurb store and I didn't fancy paying MSRP nor tying myself to a 30-month contract just to get it discounted.

Even if the 12 mini and SE2 were both $399, I'd still get the SE2. With that said, the lower price would've made it easier to buy the 12 mini sooner for use as a "testing" device (for 5G and OLED/PWM).

 

[JW313]

Where is the vote option for: There will be another mini and another after that because Apple doesn't spend the R&D for years, manufacture a new form factor just to stop making it after 3 months of "lackluster" sales?

 

[mattopotamus]

Lots of good post here. While there is a vocal minority (myself included) that prefer a powerhouse small phone, the average consumer sees small as compromise and budget. There is no doubt the SE2 cuts into the mini sales. I really hope Apple doesn't nix the mini line. I could see them trying to bridge the gap and go with a single phone in the $450-$550 range that carries over features from both the SE and mini. On the other hand, Apple could be totally happy with the mini sales. 5% of iPhone's is still high volume.

 

[JW313]

Lots of good post here. While there is a vocal minority (myself included) that prefer a powerhouse small phone, the average consumer sees small as compromise and budget. There is no doubt the SE2 cuts into the mini sales. I really hope Apple doesn't nix the mini line. I could see them trying to bridge the gap and go with a single phone in the $450-$550 range that carries over features from both the SE and mini. On the other hand, Apple could be totally happy with the mini sales. 5% of iPhone's is still high volume.

There is a better chance the mini comes back for a couple more years than gets nixed after one.

 

[mattopotamus]

There is a better chance the mini comes back for a couple more years than gets nixed after one.

I definitely do not think it gets nixed after 1 year simply because the iPhone 13 will probably use the same shell, and they probably have a lot of iPhone mini casings left. Hell, that is the real reason we go the original SE. Apple had tons of 5S casings left over.

 

[QCassidy352]

I definitely do not think it gets nixed after 1 year simply because the iPhone 13 will probably use the same shell, and they probably have a lot of iPhone mini casings left. Hell, that is the real reason we go the original SE. Apple had tons of 5S casings left over.

I seriously doubt that's right. That would suggest apple is really REALLY bad at supply chain, but supply chain is kinda Tim's thing.

 

[JPack]

I definitely do not think it gets nixed after 1 year simply because the iPhone 13 will probably use the same shell, and they probably have a lot of iPhone mini casings left. Hell, that is the real reason we go the original SE. Apple had tons of 5S casings left over.

Will people please stop peddling that myth?

The SE doesn't even use the same chassis as the 5s. The rear housing is not interchangeable.

Apple is well known to use JIT manufacturing.

 

[ian87w]

The mini is an obvious path for the next SE, and opening up an SE Max/Plus size by reusing the regular 12 design.

It might even simplify Apple’s iPhone lineup as the screen sizes will be more consistent.

Eg. mini-sized SE, SE Plus 6.1”, regular iPhone mini, regular iPhone 6.1”, Pro 6.1”, Pro max. Would look nice and consistent.

SE can be differentiated by keeping it at 4G, LCD, and TouchID, with the rest of iPhone lineup having 5G, OLED, and FaceID.

 

[JPack]

The mini is an obvious path for the next SE, and opening up an SE Max/Plus size by reusing the regular 12 design.

It might even simplify Apple’s iPhone lineup as the screen sizes will be more consistent.

Eg. mini-sized SE, SE Plus 6.1”, regular iPhone mini, regular iPhone 6.1”, Pro 6.1”, Pro max. Would look nice and consistent.

SE can be differentiated by keeping it at 4G, LCD, and TouchID, with the rest of iPhone lineup having 5G, OLED, and FaceID.

Without the sales number, I don't see how the 5.4" is an obvious path for a future SE. The SE relies on economies of scale which the mini doesn't have.

 

[ian87w]

Without the sales number, I don't see how the 5.4" is an obvious path for a future SE. The SE relies on economies of scale which the mini doesn't have.

But the tooling and design does, as it is practically just a smaller version of the 12. It shares basically a lot of things. Pare down the components, and the cost would go down. And I’m not saying this will happen this year, maybe in 2022 or 2023, at least after the 12 series stepped down to be the mid range options.

 

[Caesars]

Everyone keeps speculating that the SE and MINI are 2 different markets of customers, I disagree completely. I do not have any objective evidence (i doubt any of us do) however subjectively I feel like customers just don’t realize the differences in the phones.

If apple hadn’t just released the SE the MINI may have sold more IMHO, it seems like the 2 phones are splitting an already small market of consumers who want a small device. The SE is like a home run based on just the price alone, you introduce the size aspect of it and a it’s like having a runner on first and hitting a home run.

Now split the small % of clients who want a small phone amongst two phones/options while one cost 50% less, i think we see the outcome.

 

[ian87w]

Everyone keeps speculating that the SE and MINI are 2 different markets of customers, I disagree completely. I do not have any objective evidence (i doubt any of us do) however subjectively I feel like customers just don’t realize the differences in the phones.

If apple hadn’t just released the SE the MINI may have sold more IMHO, it seems like the 2 phones are splitting an already small market of consumers who want a small device. The SE is like a home run based on just the price alone, you introduce the size aspect of it and a it’s like having a runner on first and hitting a home run.

Now split the small % of clients who want a small phone amongst two phones/options while one cost 50% less, i think we see the outcome.

LOL. A $400 and $700 phones are not targeting the same customers.
The sales have spoken, most people want a larger screen, and 6” or so is becoming the sweet spot. It has been shown time and again as the XR, 11, and now 12, being the best seller despite existence of smaller iPhones during their respective releases (8, Xs, mini).

The SE’s attraction is plain simple, $400. It’s a $400 iPhone. The majority of people buying the SE probably cares more about the fact that it’s a $400 iPhone, not about the screen size.

 

[JPack]

But the tooling and design does, as it is practically just a smaller version of the 12. It shares basically a lot of things. Pare down the components, and the cost would go down. And I’m not saying this will happen this year, maybe in 2022 or 2023, at least after the 12 series stepped down to be the mid range options.

It's often more expensive to make something smaller. For example, the iPhone 12 mini uses a stacked logic board. The XR doesn't. The speakers and Taptic Engine are unique to iPhone 12 mini. In 2022-2023, consumers will want even larger iPhones. Personally, I don't ever see the mini taking on the SE role. It's the XR that's likely to carry the torch.

 

[rui no onna]

Everyone keeps speculating that the SE and MINI are 2 different markets of customers, I disagree completely. I do not have any objective evidence (i doubt any of us do) however subjectively I feel like customers just don’t realize the differences in the phones.

If apple hadn’t just released the SE the MINI may have sold more IMHO, it seems like the 2 phones are splitting an already small market of consumers who want a small device. The SE is like a home run based on just the price alone, you introduce the size aspect of it and a it’s like having a runner on first and hitting a home run.

Now split the small % of clients who want a small phone amongst two phones/options while one cost 50% less, i think we see the outcome.

True, I expect there's certainly overlap in the market. If the 12 mini came out first, it's what we would've gotten to replace our old phones (2x iPhone 7 + 1x iPhone SE1).

We wanted smallish iPhones and $749 has been what I traditionally paid to get the next storage tier anyway. Heck, pretty sure I paid $849 for my 7 (256GB). Of course, why pay more money for the 12 mini when the SE2 will accomplish the same thing in the desired form factor?

 

[JPack]

Everyone keeps speculating that the SE and MINI are 2 different markets of customers, I disagree completely. I do not have any objective evidence (i doubt any of us do) however subjectively I feel like customers just don’t realize the differences in the phones.

If apple hadn’t just released the SE the MINI may have sold more IMHO, it seems like the 2 phones are splitting an already small market of consumers who want a small device. The SE is like a home run based on just the price alone, you introduce the size aspect of it and a it’s like having a runner on first and hitting a home run.

Now split the small % of clients who want a small phone amongst two phones/options while one cost 50% less, i think we see the outcome.

Then you haven't been paying attention. It's not even speculation. Tim Cook literally said, "The iPhone SE, it’s also clear that from the early data, we’re seeing a higher switcher number than we did in the previous year, which we feel very good about."

The SE is known to attract Android switchers, which are price sensitive. It wasn't a coincidence Android customers jumped on board when the $399 iPhone SE was launched.

There's no difference between a $399 and $699 customer? You might as well tell me pre-paid wireless customers and post-paid customers are the same.

 

[v386]

True, I expect there's certainly overlap in the market. If the 12 mini came out first, it's what we would've gotten to replace our old phones (2x iPhone 7 + 1x iPhone SE1).

We wanted smallish iPhones and $749 has been what I traditionally paid to get the next storage tier anyway. Heck, pretty sure I paid $849 for my 7 (256GB). Of course, why pay more money for the 12 mini when the SE2 will accomplish the same thing in the desired form factor?

I’m a mini buyer, the SE2 is simply too large and heavy. The mini is larger and heavier than I would like but not cripplingly so. I would be willing to pay double for a small phone compared to standard iphone 12, size and weight are paramount and within reason price is no object. Similarly left with a choice of no small phone version I will go without entirely rather than buy a large phone to replace the small one. I own an iphone 11 as well, I use it for work purposes but am not willing to carry it with me. For the type of consumer I represent, not offering a small phone means no sale at all. If the numbers don’t support the costs, just raise the price to preserve the margin and make it look spiffy, market it as super premium at a $2000 price point.

 

[ian87w]

It's often more expensive to make something smaller. For example, the iPhone 12 mini uses a stacked logic board. The XR doesn't. The speakers and Taptic Engine are unique to iPhone 12 mini. In 2022-2023, consumers will want even larger iPhones. Personally, I don't ever see the mini taking on the SE role. It's the XR that's likely to carry the torch.

That's a possibility as well. Prior to the 12 mini being a reality, I speculated that the next SE will be the XR with updated internals, albeit making it into the largest SE ever.

We'll see. We can see both. An SE mini and an SE Plus.

 

[rui no onna]

I’m a mini buyer, the SE2 is simply too large and heavy. The mini is larger and heavier than I would like but not cripplingly so. I would be willing to pay double for a small phone compared to standard iphone 12, size and weight are paramount and within reason price is no object. Similarly left with a choice of no small phone version I will go without entirely rather than buy a large phone to replace the small one. I own an iphone 11 as well, I use it for work purposes but am not willing to carry it with me. For the type of consumer I represent, not offering a small phone means no sale at all. If the numbers don’t support the costs, just raise the price to preserve the margin and make it look spiffy, market it as super premium at a $2000 price point.

As has been mentioned before, that's probably a niche within a niche.

I wouldn't buy either if there were no devices that suit me (e.g. Xr/Xs and 11 series). Last year though, both SE2 and 12 mini were acceptable options.

 

[TechLord]

Android budget phones are much larger than most phones apple offer. You've got budget offerings like the Samsung A71 with a 6.7 inch display, one plus nord display 6.4 inch etc. A larger SE model based off the XR or 11 would do well to bring even more budget orientated android switchers who find past SE offerings too small.

 

[LFC2020]

Price is the biggest factor, here in Australia you can get the SE for $679 (should be a bit cheaper) the mini starts at $1,199 at that price it isn’t screaming out buy me to a lot of people.

If it was $749 I’d even consider buying one to run iOS beta software lol.

 

[LFC2020]

Android budget phones are much larger than most phones apple offer.

They also lag like crazy, even die hard android fans say stay away from budget android phones.

 

[TechLord]

They also lag like crazy, even die hard android fans say stay away from budget android phones.

No doubt, they have cheap budget processors and are full of bloatware and adds. But for budget android users who don't want a small phone, an SE 3 plus could be a real killer. The SE 2 already did great with android fans, I imagine the SE 3 plus will blow it out of the water.

 

[LFC2020]

No doubt, they have cheap budget processors and are full of bloatware and adds. But for budget android users who don't want a small phone, an SE 3 plus could be a real killer. The SE 2 already did great with android fans, I imagine the SE 3 plus will blow it out of the water.

SE plus is rumored to drop this year ? the end of android is fast approaching.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I think the SE is so popular compared to the Mini for two reason. First is price. Secondly, and I think this is the real reason and I wonder if Apple doesn't realize this, but many people refuse to use the gesture system and thus refuse to give up the home button (both for navigation and unlocking the phone).

I know where I work people are buying the 2020 SE in a ratio of probably 4 to 1 compared to the 11 and 12 series. They don't want to give up the home button for navigation simple as that.

The gesture system isn't bad, but it doesn't compare with touchID.

I had a 12 mini, and it didn't meet my requirements; My eyes are susceptible to the low PWM flicker they have on the phone, so I returned it. I didn't go back to my X, or get an 11, I went back to an original SE. I prefer the small form factor and touchID over faceID. I prefer the home button to the gesture navigation. Had the screen been acceptable, I would have kept the 12 mini, but as it is, it was just full of compromises - faceID and battery life being the primary ones. I plan on getting a 13 mini (assuming Apple makes one) assuming that battery life will be better with a better 5g chipset and (hopefully) in-screen touchID.

 

[LFC2020]

The gesture system isn't bad, but it doesn't compare with touchID

Really, I find the gesture system quicker and it feels more natural to use, love Face ID as well pick up your phone and you’re in, don’t even have to think about it. Wet, dirty, dry, fingers are a thing of the past with Face ID ?