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Is gaming officially dead on Macs?
- Thread starter Yamcha
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What difference between Apple TV and Apple gaming console? Plus, how likely are they going to repeat the Pippin. Lets hope it's something useful like AR (hands-free personal HUD) rather than VR.
Just out of curiosity, are you looking forward to Snowrunners, Layers of Fear and Fort Solis?
No, we're not thinking about it wrong. The headset can be used to play games, but it won't be strictly a console (well, for some it might be). As I wrote a long time ago, the console could be the AppleTV and the entry market is Japan. The Japanese buy "consoles" for few games. We have a few decades of history showing that, with consoles that most in the "West" or younger gamers have never heard of. Few games, yet top-sellers in Japan while not selling very well if at all in other markets. Apple have tried to partner with those who could swing sales, primarily in Japan. Nintendo, Capcom and Kojima (curious how long that lasts, the guy is jumping on every bandwagon for funding that passes. Put down enough cash and he will dance at your birthday party). If they can manage to make the Japanese buy a future version of an AppleTV with Max SoC, chances other markets follow are much larger. But in order for that to happen, they need more games on the already established systems now (Macs). In theory, nothing keeps one to run macOS games on AppleTV if they buff the SoC. How that will go... time will tell.
I find it strange that you make the claim that the Japanese only buy a "few" games, when they are the third largest market in the world for digital gaming revenues ($22.9 billion/year, 75.62 million players according to a 2021 report) Going back to the NES/Famicom (NES name in Japan), the Japanese and US markets have largely been parallel in terms of console releases. While there have been differences in naming and physical appearance between the markets (PC Engine/TurboGrafx 16, SNES/Super Famicom for example), the development side has been paralleled for quite some time now. As far as the different games issue is concerned, a lot of that is cultural and related to Japanese culture having a different value hierarchy from many other countries. The Japanese audience has always been a big fan of the RPG genre, and it is still the most popular genre across Mobile, console, and PC gaming:
There are also many US-developed games that do not do well in Japan for the same reasons some of those Japanese titles fare poorly outside of Japan. Gaming is a huge business in Japan, and while some of it is shifting to mobile, it's not decreasing by any means. Here is another chart showing Japanese preferences compared to the rest of the world:
If that being the case then D4 should fare amazingly well there. Japan is such an interesting case study to how particular gaming play styles have not been impacted to the same extent by the mobile craze here in the states. Their gaming in all forms is big time as you say. Same for fancy audio/video setups and mass merchandize of media in huge stores. Yes want the best home speakers and TVs Japan makes the USA look awful as far as selection.
The Mx is a big difference. Others have speculated the "headset" BOM includes multiple M2 processors. That revelation is what caused me to wonder about what is Apple is really up to here.
Moreover, let us consider a couple other things. Apple has added an entire segment to their business model developing AppleTV+ content. They outsource the content creation to studios but they curate it and direct the funding. So, with this infrastructure now in place, could Apple reinvent how gaming content is created and begin to create gaming content the same way? And if they do, do they also use their content distribution infrastructure to reinvent how that content is delivered? We might be in for a much more significant product introduction than I had anticipated.
You really believe that? Because as far an Apple arcade and ATV4K its been a joke so far. Even if they put a super AS SoC inside and up the performance of the ATV it's not going places until they get away from the gaming services they currently use.
If the games they are likely to show off this WWDC we’re Apple Arcade exclusive and ran on both the Mac and AppleTV that would be a pretty big deal.You really believe that? Because as far an Apple arcade and ATV4K its been a joke so far. Even if they put a super AS SoC inside and up the performance of the ATV it's not going places until they get away from the gaming services they currently use.
I am not sure the XR part will have huge play in that just yet though. And I cannot say for sure Apple could come up with some new way to make game content that isn’t already done in Unity/Unreal Engine.
After reading all the lovely fan related issues online of many gaming laptops and my dislike of fan noise I took the easy route ultimately just to use an inexpensive 30x0 PC gaming desktop and 1440 display in the end. The advice was good.
If there was going to be something amazing at WWDC it would be likely be let bygones be bygones and show off the unreal engine 5.2 as applicable to some Mac ports in development. Thats about as much as we can hope for. As least this last year we saw the one Capcom example come out in October.
Please read again what I wrote:
They buy dedicated consoles, when only few games are available for the specific console. I never said they buy few games in general. That shows with consoles like the Marty Towns from Fujitsu, the PC Engine (no it's not a PC) or the Super Grafx from NEC, the Neo Geo from SNK, the 3DO from Panasonic and so on. Those did all rather well in Japan, despite the lack of games, while one could call them a failure in other markets such as US/EU.
To have Epic onstage would be big, that isn't likely to happen. Though developers using UE would be fine as they would be focused on the game, not the engine.If there was going to be something amazing at WWDC it would be likely be let bygones be bygones and show off the unreal engine 5.2 as applicable to some Mac ports in development. Thats about as much as we can hope for. As least this last year we saw the one Capcom example come out in October.
Again, as the third largest gaming market in the world, where are you getting this "few games are available" idea? There are a LOT of games for consoles in Japan that will never reach market outside the Asian markets. PC Engine lasted only around a year longer than its NA variant (TurboGrafx 16), so it hardly had a long shelf life either. 3DO ran into a lot of the same issues as Neo Geo, mainly the (at the time) extremely high pricing for consoles and games. At least Neo Geo found a footing on the arcade side of things, while the same can't be said for the 3DO or PCE/TG16.
I never said few games are available IN GENERAL. I said FEW GAMES FOR SPECIFIC CONSOLES! Please read this again, and again until you understand.
I NEVER said few games FOR ALL THE CONSOLES AVAILABLE IN JAPAN! NEVER! There have been several offsprings variants/successors of the PC Engine for over a decade, all somewhat successful in Japan with few games available (FOR THIS SYSTEM! IN COMPARISON TO OTHER MAINSTREAM SYSTEMS! NOT FOR OTHER MAINSTREAM SYSTEMS like Sega and Nintendo).
SNK originally came from the arcade with the MVS and then ventured into the home market with the AES. The 3DO and others were never intended to be arcade machines. The arcade games that used 3DO hardware were a result of Panasonics licensing the hardware to other manufacturers, among them LG and Sanyo. These were never general arcade machines either.
The Japanese have a habit of buying into games and buy the required hardware with it if necessary. That is a good thing for Apple and a potential more powerful AppleTV. They can even throw in the MLB, which the Japanese love.
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Maybe your sense of humor isn’t as easy for the rest of us to grok as you might think? Emojis help.
There's no need for humour or emojis in this. That's how the Japanese market works and always worked in the past as everyone who's ever worked in the market knows. Throw out something they want and they'll buy the required hardware. Consoles, MUSE HD, D-VHS and many other things. People even ran out and bought 8k TVs and additional equipment for very limited content, simply because they wanted that specific content. People in Japan will run out and buy AppleTVs for very few games they want.
Admittedly that was NHK prematurely promoting 8K to reclaim some lost manhood by Japan falling to wayside with the avalanche of 4K TV tech industry. Still have exceedingly little 8K content to watch except whats available via specific satellite in Japan last I read. I see some trying to show they can upscale games to 8K but not really anything to crow about. It was very much the necessary technology and infrastructure for 8K to leapfrog was MIA and still is primary because of content/media as well as 8K consumer cameras are far from the norm. Remember all the jokes about 16K coming soon too?
The global Mac community is not much different with seeing something thrown out and then buying what needed to run it. Yes guilty as charged.
Yes, but it works in Japan. I also have some 8k material, but I've been involved in the industry in the past, so I'm an easy target. Teranex video processors for $100k+ in the past? Check. I'm not blaming people in Japan in any way. Just pointing out that the market works differently there outside of... let's call it a cult (Apple). 8K isn't necessary in terms of pure resolution, I'd take proper µLED or RGB laser projection (hello Barco and Christie) over 8k resolution any day.Admittedly that was NHK prematurely promoting 8K to reclaim some lost manhood by Japan falling to wayside with the avalanche of 4K TV industry. Still have exceedingly little 8K content to watch except whats available via specific satellite in Japan last I read. I see some trying to show they can upscale games to 8K but not really anything to crow about.
The global Mac community is not much different with seeing something thrown out and then buying what needed to run it. Yes guilty as charged.
If Apple can manage to acquire enough games on current platforms, then entering the Japanese "console" market with an AppleTV will make sense for them. They will find customers there in the beginning and if they can establish that market, maybe somewhere else as well. I won't be jumping on that train for multi-platform titles, because I don't care on what system I play it in contrast to the Japanese market where Sony and Nintendo are loved while the other ones don't get the same treatment. If Apple can manage to bring something exclusively to the AppleTV that I want and that isn't available for macOS, then I'm there and ready. I doubt that will happen though and even if it's a macOS exclusive, I'd rather hook up a Mac to the TV and use a wireless gamepad.
You changed your advocacy from earlier posts. Perhaps if your initial statements were clearer, there would not have been any perceived confusion.
Admittedly that was NHK prematurely promoting 8K to reclaim some lost manhood by Japan falling to wayside with the avalanche of 4K TV tech industry. Still have exceedingly little 8K content to watch except whats available via specific satellite in Japan last I read. I see some trying to show they can upscale games to 8K but not really anything to crow about. It was very much the necessary technology and infrastructure for 8K to leapfrog was MIA and still is primary because of content/media as well as 8K consumer cameras are far from the norm. Remember all the jokes about 16K coming soon too?
The global Mac community is not much different with seeing something thrown out and then buying what needed to run it. Yes guilty as charged.
The first thing shown on 8K in Japan was 2001: A Space Odyssey, and that was mainly because of it being shot originally on 70mm, which lends itself well to 8k resolution.
Yes I remember what they queued up initially for appeasing 8K watchers, Lawerence oF Arabia, My Fair Lady.
Still its was an example of technology vs media before its time as with the current 2 1/2 year old Apple Silicon transition. It's way better then when this all first started in Nov 2020 with macOS 11.6. Really Rosetta 2 runs Mac intel games at acceptable speeds on M1. But as the Oct 2022 Capcom example shows we gone some of the distance towards AS Macs being viable, just its underwhelming example considering how many now own IMHO more than capable Macs. I just hope this WWDC 2023 we finally see more examples shown in advance.
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I am sure a lot of people from the 1994 to 1996 days remember Marathon the original, it would be interesting if for once Apple did invest in a port to help sell AS Macs. As it is now its PC's and consoles supported.
- Marathon (1994)
- Marathon II: Durandal (1995)
- Marathon Infinity (1996)
