Lenovo X1 Extreme

[KarmaRocket]

I think maybe you should wait for the Surface Book 3. Maybe it will have the balance of dGPU power and battery life. I know you're very sensitive to fan noise, I'm pretty sure no laptop will satisfy you in that regard. Or maybe wait for Intel Ice Lake's 10nm and Nvidia/AMD coming out with 7nm GPUs. You might need to make some compromises.

 

[DarthVader!]

wait for the Surface Book 3.

Any rumors on when MS will be updating their Surface Line?

 

[KarmaRocket]

Any rumors on when MS will be updating their Surface Line?

Haven' heard of any rumors, though Microsoft seems to be on a 2 year upgrade cycle with the Surface Book line. Upgrades are due this year. I wouldn't count the CPU refreshes as an update. They have been known to do minor CPU and performance base updates in the past. They usually do announcements in the fall around October or so.

Hoping we possibly get Ice Lake CPU and they somehow manage to get RTX 2060 in the base. I would most likely purchase that even though I'd prefer a machine I can upgrade RAM and storage myself.

 

[maflynn]

though Microsoft seems to be on a 2 year upgrade cycle with the Surface Book line.

So a Surface Go update is out of the question for 2019 (other then a tweak to the cpu?)

 

[KarmaRocket]

So a Surface Go update is out of the question for 2019 (other then a tweak to the cpu?)

Not sure about the Surface Go, since it's relatively a new product in the Surface line. Just going by the release schedule of the previous Surface Books. I think Surface Go will be an interesting device if they can get an Ice Lake CPU in there. The graphics upgrade alone will benefit it immensely. Or maybe an AMD APU. Would be an interesting device compared to an iPad Pro.

A friend of mine has the Surface Go and loves it. Uses it for light coding, writing and plays some games on it.

 

[maflynn]

I think Surface Go will be an interesting device if they can get an Ice Lake CPU in there

I wouldn't mind a higher resolution screen with smaller bezels, but you bring up a good point. Since that tablet is a gen 1 that just came out last year, we'll probably not see any updates to the screen. Processor maybe this fall perhaps, maybe not. You're right MS does seem a bit slow in refreshing its computer lines. I'm debating whether a Go, or a Surface Pro type tablet would be a good companion device for me. I'm trying out my iPad right now, and its lack of desktop apps is a hindrance but maybe not a show stopper. I'm kind of leaning towards just using that due to the fact its a better tablet in tablet mode, but the Go is better with a mouse and keyboard.

 

[maflynn]

On a different topic, I noticed the lower right hand corner has the finish coming off, I think it was rubbing up against my old Apple cinema display and the edges of that display are quite sharp. i'm a little bummed but it is what it is. I'm not looking to call lenovo on this and I'll live with it

 

[hajime]

On a different topic, I noticed the lower right hand corner has the finish coming off, I think it was rubbing up against my old Apple cinema display and the edges of that display are quite sharp. i'm a little bummed but it is what it is. I'm not looking to call lenovo on this and I'll live with it

I think I have read posts from users complaining about this problem.

 

[maflynn]

I think I have read posts from users complaining about this problem.

yep, I think there was some mention in this thread and on reddit. Like I said, it is what it is, and other laptops are not immune from wear and tear

 

[hajime]

yep, I think there was some mention in this thread and on reddit. Like I said, it is what it is, and other laptops are not immune from wear and tear

Besides the fan noise, I don't feel comfortable with the surface of the X1E. I think you can buy the case and swap it yourself or via Lenovo technician later.

 

[maflynn]

I think you can buy the case and swap it yourself or via Lenovo technician later.

i have no desire or motivation to do that. Like I said, I'll just live with it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[jrichards1408]

Just got this crash on my X1

 

[LindsayD]

Do any of your drivers need updating? That's the first thing I check. Otherwise, it might be due to the undervolt (if you were doing something intensive at the time).

 

[jrichards1408]

Do any of your drivers need updating? That's the first thing I check. Otherwise, it might be due to the undervolt (if you were doing something intensive at the time).

I'll check if anything needs updating. I have never had a crash before on this laptop

 

[maflynn]

I'll check if anything needs updating. I have never had a crash before on this laptop

It may just be a one off and not a portend of the future

 

[LindsayD]

Given that under-volting is an important topic in these discussions, I’d like some advice please on a recent issue I’m having with XTU. It ran successfully on the X1E, on my L390Y, and on my Aero. I’ve just updated my Aero chipset drivers as well as the Gigabyte Control Center. I’ve discovered the latter automatically installs the latest version of XTU.

I needed to make a change within XTU but when pressing ‘apply’ I was given a warning message along the lines of ‘watchdog feature is not enabled, will not be able to restore your machine to a stable state’. Previously, if you overdid your changes it would simply blue screen and restart the laptop thanks to the watchdog feature. But now it seems that you would not be able to restart your machine if it crashed following any changes?

I have obviously searched for this online and it's not uncommon, but I haven’t found any satisfactory answers. Reinstalling XTU as Admin made no difference. Is anyone else suffering from this?

 

[maflynn]

‘watchdog feature is not enabled, will not be able to restore your machine to a stable state’. Previously, if you overdid your changes it would simply blue screen and restart the laptop thanks to the watchdog feature. But now it seems that you would not be able to restart your machine if it crashed following any changes?

I had to google watchdog, and it seems to be a safety feature that if your system becomes unresponsive due to user configuration it reboots (maybe giving you a safeboot option?)

this is one reason why I prefer Throttlestop, it only changes the settings when the app starts up (And I don't have the app auto-start). I could be wrong but XTU changes things that are more permanent and if something goes wrong its harder to get back - evidently, mores so if the system doesn't have watchdog.

All in all, I'd be a bit more hesitant to mess with XTU, but that's just me

 

[LindsayD]

Yes, the watchdog feature is the failsafe. I've no idea why I've now lost it. I'm hoping I can somehow get it back.

I've tried Throttlestop but for some reason having it installed prevented me from opening the Aero Control Center (no idea why, I didn't have XTU installed at the same time). The control center app is something I use quite a lot so I've had to go back to XTU.

So if you did a clean install of the OS on your computer and if prior to that you forgot to set your XTU parameters back to defaults, would the XTU settings nevertheless persist?

 

[maflynn]

I wonder if the Aero ever had it installed in the first place?

Edit: I'd try reaching out to support and asking them, since XTU came installed/was provided with the Aero

 

[LindsayD]

Yes, it came installed with the Aero control center (but you can deinstall it as normal). And it worked fine, until I upgraded to the latest version of the control centre.

I'll try to ask them - try being the operative word (so far I can't find a way to phone or email Gigabyte). It's a problem a few people seem to have irrespective of brand, but I'm yet to see a discussion which contains a solution. I was curious as to whether anybody here had encountered the same at any point.

 

[Queen6]

XTU's service is common on many gaming notebook to provide info for control centre's. Personally I use ThrottleStop as it's more flexible and stable, however I delay auto starting by two minutes in Task Scheduler to avoid any issue.

If I stop the XTU service, my observation is that any OEM centre fails to show CPU frequency. Undervolting needs to be verified across all power settings and loads including battery or it may result in a Blue Screen. I generally run my ROG GL703GS at a balanced -140mV (Core & Cache), although it will go as deep as -170mV, potentially more with a reduced undervolt to the Cache.

Problem with the full XTU is that's it's overly sensitive and Watchdog kicks in far too easily resulting in any undervolt being replaced with default CPU voltage settings with no advisement to the user.

@LindsayD Removing the XTU service is potentially the reason why the Gigabyte Control Center failed to open, as it's likely reliant on the XTU service for CPU data points. Unless the notebook has an unlocked CPU it shouldn't have requirement for the full blown XTU.

Q-6

 

[LindsayD]

@LindsayD Removing the XTU service is potentially the reason why the Gigabyte Control Center failed to open, as it's likely reliant on the XTU service for CPU data points. Unless the notebook has an unlocked CPU it shouldn't have requirement for the full blown XTU.

Q-6

Thank you for that - interesting. So I may not be able to use Throttlestop and GCC concurently, since that would require that I remove XTU, and GCC may need XTU to function. My options then are to live without GCC and its fan profiles, or keep GCC and hope for the best with the missing XTU watchdog feature (I cannot for the life of me think why such an important feature would be removed with the update).

From what @maflynn says, it looks like XTU might write changes to the BIOS, and they remain after deinstallation. So to fully get rid of XTU I'm guessing I would need to re-set my BIOS to default values after deinstallation. And in so doing I'd probably lose whatever settings the manufacturer had set in the BIOS unless they're baked in.

 

[Queen6]

Thank you for that - interesting. So I may not be able to use Throttlestop and GCC concurently, since that would require that I remove XTU, and GCC may need XTU to function. My options then are to live without GCC and its fan profiles, or keep GCC and hope for the best with the missing XTU watchdog feature (I cannot for the life of me think why such an important feature would be removed with the update).

From what @maflynn says, it looks like XTU might write changes to the BIOS, and they remain after deinstallation. So to fully get rid of XTU I'm guessing I would need to re-set my BIOS to default values after deinstallation. And in so doing I'd probably lose whatever settings the manufacturer had set in the BIOS unless they're baked in.

What I think is you may need to do is reset the system (system image back-up?). This way you will get back the XTU service and Acpi driver, without full XTU application and be able to run TS. Unless the CPU is unlocked XTU should just be a limited service that reads out the CPU registers core frequency etc. to present info in GCC. Killing the service/driver with Acer & Asus notebooks results in respective control centres not being able to present CPU frequency, nothing else.

The full XTU app does write to BIOS as far as I'm aware, while TS is just an app which I prefer. Without Watchdog XTU could be a problem again as it's interacting with BIOS. If you set XTU back to default, so that it's not applying any undervolt or other power settings, then configure TS to delay start-up (I opt for 2 minutes) the system still should be ok I believe. The conflict occurs when both applications are attempting to apply individual settings to CPU registers.

I don't see any reason why resetting BIOS to default will be of issue as the default state should be dictated by the OEM for optimal start-up. The OEM my have included the full XTU to apply an undervolt, although I would rather expect such actions would set up in BIOS advanced settings, frequently walled off from the user.

Here you can see the stock XTU service and Acpi driver running concurrently with ThrottleStop, well start-up thx to Autoruns. There's no need to uninstall or remove, the problem is the full XTU application if set up to effect change to CPU registers/BIOS as it will conflict with TS.


I've observed this with Acer, Asus and MSI notebooks and yet to have any issue by running TS with a deferred start-up. Personally I tend to avoid the full XTU as it simply tends to cloud the situation, nor have I found it to be 100% reliable, as it's error routines are triggered far to easily, resulting in a reset to default.

TS is more dangerous for those that don't read and should always be started as a deferred, equally it's aimed at more advanced, adventurous users with a solid community behind it and a Dev who cares. Same is true of XTU, although Intel is more cautious of the user creating a non recoverable error, likely again as potentially XTU is writing to BIOS.

Little thought and work with the right settings ThrottleStop is a killer, must have application for notebooks with a powerful CPU; 8th Gen Hex core 8750H, on stock paste

Q-6

 

[LindsayD]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply @Queen6, it’s very helpful to have this discussion. Yesterday I did try to roll my system back to an earlier restore point (I make full system backup images for the desktop but always overlook the laptops). As with past attempts to use restore points over the years it was a complete failure and resulted in endless blue screens and start-up loops. I was able to roll forward to where I had been two days ago, so I gave up on that.

It appears that the version of XTU which accompanies GCC is the full version, at least when compared to how it looks on my other laptop. What is quite interesting is that when I deleted both GCC and XTU in order to cleanly reinstall GCC, XTU installed with my previous undervolt settings intact. It somehow remembered them. But still no watchdog feature.

My understanding is that Watchdog is apparently a BIOS feature. So XTU will only include it if that option is active/available in the BIOS. Here is where it gets interesting - when I last looked in my BIOS a couple of weeks ago (just out of interest, I have never changed any settings there) it was a nice fancy Gigabyte interface with graphics, dials, and a lot of options. When I looked in the BIOS yesterday it looked completely different and is now a bland grey and blue skeleton interface. I can only conclude that reinstalling a newer version of GCC introduced this change (I have not flashed the bios lately). So I’m also concluding that Gigabyte have deliberately disabled Watchdog by default through this latest GCC update. XTU was never visible in GCC itself, I only discovered it came bundled a couple of days ago when I was rummaging around in the folder. Anyway, it also appears that with the latest control centre update gigabyte’s XTU profiles are gone, which could in turn explain why my XTU undervolt now ‘sticks’ on reboot. All of this is guesswork because I’m certainly no expert.

With respect to XTU writing to the BIOS, since I can no longer see any such settings in the BIOS I have no idea what is or isn’t being applied, or maybe it’s hidden.

I’ve also noticed that XTU can appear to have set everything back to zero on reboots (if you look at it immediately on starting) but if you give it a couple of minutes it recovers the settings. On my Lenovo it’s more random – sometimes it keeps the settings and sometimes it doesn’t.

As things stand right now, it appears I can’t run TS and still have GCC installed. I did send a couple of questions to Gigabyte support yesterday so will await an answer.

 

[maflynn]

When I looked in the BIOS yesterday it looked completely different and is now a bland grey and blue skeleton interface.

is it possible that a bios update was included?

What version of the bios is there now?

Maybe contact support over this?