Lenovo X1 Extreme

[maflynn]

6) dolby atmos speakers

The current X1E uses dolby atmos speakers

• 1) anyone know what kind of improvements we can expect from e.g. i7-9750H over i7-8750H?

• 2) do you know if it should be possible to later update wifi m.2 card in gen 1 to support wifi 6 (802.11ax)?

• 3) does gen 1 allow manually upgrading FHD screen to 4K?

• 4) Are both m.2 slots NVMe in gen1? or one is SATA?

• 5) does gen1 have hardware raid controller or have to use soft raid?

• 6) Based on history: Is new gen 2 base models expected to be more expensive than current prices? media mentions starting price of $1500 so should be cheaper than current starting prices $1650?

• 7) Based on history:Is lenovo running some inventory sales before launching new laptop generations?

1) From what I've read, not a huge difference in performance.
2) I think its too soon, but if I was a betting man, I'd say no.
3) Yes, you can replace the screen yourself. I believe @c0ppo did that.
4) Both memory slots are NVMe
5) No idea
6) I think you may see less discounts/promotions early on which has a indirect impact of making it pricier. Likewise we may see more aggressive discounts on the Gen1 to move inventory.
7) I don't know about prior history, but as I said in bullet six, I think that may be the case.

 

[jrichards1408]

There are actually more differences:
1) 9th intel cpu
2) GTX 1650
3) Wifi 6 (802.11ax)
4) motherboard support up to 4TB SSD instead of 2TB
5) all models have now ShutterThink on camera so don't have to choose between privacy or IR Cam
6) dolby atmos speakers
7) additional options for FHD w/ HDR and 500 nits screen or 4K OLED multitouch screen
8) 4K OLED multitouch seems to be lighter and thinner than previous 4K IPS (1.7kg vs 1.8kg)
[doublepost=1557921262][/doublepost]Wondering if I should wait for gen2 or get gen1 instead. I'm not in the USA but my sis can bring it one to me end of june when she will come to europe (unfortunately gen 2 won't be available until that time )

• 1) anyone know what kind of improvements we can expect from e.g. i7-9750H over i7-8750H?
• 2) do you know if it should be possible to later update wifi m.2 card in gen 1 to support wifi 6 (802.11ax)?
• 3) does gen 1 allow manually upgrading FHD screen to 4K?
• 4) Are both m.2 slots NVMe in gen1? or one is SATA?
• 5) does gen1 have hardware raid controller or have to use soft raid?
  
• 6) Based on history: Is new gen 2 base models expected to be more expensive than current prices? media mentions starting price of $1500 so should be cheaper than current starting prices $1650?
• 7) Based on history:Is lenovo running some inventory sales before launching new laptop generations?

My X1e has 3tb inside...

 

[TSE]

The GTX1650 is surprisingly pretty quick. It's 30% faster than the previous GTX1050Ti which is a pretty big boost. GTX 1060 territory. The 9th generation processors only benchmark about 10% faster which isn't a huge deal.

All in all a pretty good boost in performance for the lower-end performance notebooks. More than expected as the RTX high-end cards are somewhat disappointing. I'm still glad I got my XPS 9570 when I did with aftermarket 32GB RAM & 1 TB Samsung Evo SSD total for ~$1600 after taxes. I'm hoping that when it comes time to purchase a new laptop in 4 / 5 years Apple will have ARM options out that crush the competition in performance / watt & Solidworks will be available for Mac. That's the last piece of software that isn't Mac compatible for me - Boot Camp or Parallels has never been a good solution for professional work.

I think the next redesign of the MacBook Pro is going to be a killer. Apple has a chip on it's shoulder.

 

[LindsayD]

Since I'm in the market for another X1 Extreme I'm now thinking of perhaps holding off until the Gen 2 comes out. I don't expect the price to be higher than the Gen 1, and I don't expect the Gen 1 price to fall significantly either.

I'm always wary of being an early adopter (especially with respect to a faster GPU and possible caveats with that), so I'm hoping some pre-launch reviews will emerge.

 

[maflynn]

Apple has a chip on it's shoulder

Tbh, I think they're oblivious to the frustration. Also, I'd be surprised to see a redesign this year.

 

[lcseds]

Tbh, I think they're oblivious to the frustration. Also, I'd be surprised to see a redesign this year.

I agree. I think that they think they're doing a great job.

You know, innovative, intuitive products at a great value. World class products. In fact they believe it's the best (fill in the blank) they have ever made. We think you'll love it too.

sigh.....hyperbole at it's finest.

Right now there is not one Apple notebook I'm interested in. Not one.

 

[duyxbox]

I love my X1E so far (well, still miss my MBP 15' 2018 though, especially the track pad)
The minor issue I face is whenever I plug in the headphone (3.5mm), the built-in microphone stop working, does anyone here face it before? It's kinda annoying...

 

[SDColorado]

I'm always wary of being an early adopter (especially with respect to a faster GPU and possible caveats with that), so I'm hoping some pre-launch reviews will emerge.

If it is anything like the initial X1E launch, don’t be surprised if that doesn’t happen. While there were the little snips from the CES booth, no real reviews came until about a month or so after release. Many customers already had them in hand, before any tech reviews surfaced. Makes me think Lenovo shipped customer orders prior to press models for reviews?

 

[maflynn]

If it is anything like the initial X1E launch, don’t be surprised if that doesn’t happen.

That's right, I remember now, it took months to finally get reviews in. I'm not sure why

 

[hajime]

That's right, I remember now, it took months to finally get reviews in. I'm not sure why

As I recall, none of the professional reviewers talked about the thermal/noise. If I recall correctly, on youtube, a Korean user gave a review first followed by a Chinese user. The first review that talked about these issues was notebookcheck. Perhaps those professional reviewer including Lisa knew about the jet engine noise but could not talk about it for various reasons. There was a saying that professional reviewers did not receive the review units until weeks after customers received theirs. I don't believe in that.

 

[maflynn]

As I recall, none of the professional reviewers talked about the thermal/noise.

That's because the fan noise is not really a problem for most people.

Perhaps those professional reviewer including Lisa knew about the jet engine noise but could not talk about it for various reasons.

OR there was no issue, my thinkpad has had no "jet engine" noise, though when I put it through its paces, the fans ramp up which is expected.

There was a saying that professional reviewers did not receive the review units until weeks after customers received theirs. I don't believe in that.

Why not? What does that serve them? They get more clicks on products that are freshly released, its actually detrimental to reviewers to wait months. Most likely Lenovo was hedging their bets and not releasing review units until the consumers had it. Or it could have been someone's mistake. What is not the case, is some large scale conspiracy that all reviewers chose to hold off for months to release their reviews.

 

[SDColorado]

Why not? What does that serve them? They get more clicks on products that are freshly released, its actually detrimental to reviewers to wait months. Most likely Lenovo was hedging their bets and not releasing review units until the consumers had it. Or it could have been someone's mistake. What is not the case, is some large scale conspiracy that all reviewers chose to hold off for months to release their reviews.

I tend to think it is the former, that Lenovo was hedging their bets. Heck, they may have even been waiting until they had some returns/exchanges to begin shipping those "used" models off to the press, rather than pre-production in order to get them in the hands of customers who had pre-ordered first.

I agree that there is no large scale conspiracy to hold off on reviews. Some even seemed frustrated to have not gotten one to review yet. I don't think that reviewers were intentionally avoiding reports of "jet engine noise" or the likes either. Many of the reviewers, including Lisa, can be brutal in their reviews.

 

[maflynn]

tend to think it is the former, that Lenovo was hedging their bets.

Yeah, that does make the most plausible sense.

Many of the reviewers, including Lisa, can be brutal in their reviews.

I appreciate hers and Dave2D's reviews because they don't pull punches. I also understand some people did experience more aggressive fan noise, but that issue has largely been resolved. Now when the fans ramp up, its for good reason, i.e., the temps are rising.

 

[SDColorado]

I appreciate hers and Dave2D's reviews because they don't pull punches. I also understand some people did experience more aggressive fan noise, but that issue has largely been resolved. Now when the fans ramp up, its for good reason, i.e., the temps are rising.

I like Dave2D's reviews as well. They are among the more balanced reviewers, who don't go for click bait whether it is fanboyism or criticism but instead take a fair and balanced approach to their reviews.

Unfortunately, it does happen where fans can ramp up due to something going on with the machine. I had an issue when I was trying out the Surface Book 2 where a background update process had hung, causing the machine to ramp up. That was solved by a reset and reinstall of the OS. I also had to return a MacBook Pro because temps were constantly running up to 100C and staying there until reboot. That definitely sounded like a jet engine as well.

But if you are the sort of person bothered by fan noise in general, none of these models are going to be a good solution. It is a bit like being annoyed by the squeaking sound of styrofoam and taking a job in a factory that manufactures it

 

[cubbie5150]

I agree. I think that they think they're doing a great job.

You know, innovative, intuitive products at a great value. World class products. In fact they believe it's the best (fill in the blank) they have ever made. We think you'll love it too.

sigh.....hyperbole at it's finest.

Right now there is not one Apple notebook I'm interested in. Not one.

IMHO, the apologists are doing their favorite brand a huge disservice in stomping-out criticism of Apple. It's the hardcore fans who should be the harshest critics, and forcing the company to be better. YMMV, as made obvious by this board specifically.

 

[SDColorado]

IMHO, the apologists are doing their favorite brand a huge disservice in stomping-out criticism of Apple. It's the hardcore fans who should be the harshest critics, and forcing the company to be better. YMMV, as made obvious by this board specifically.

It isn't just Apple forums though. All of these types of "fan" forums have their die hard supporters for which in the eyes of their fans can do no wrong. It doesn't matter if it is Canon/Nikon/Sony with cameras or BMW/Audi/Mercedes whatever with cars. You will always have the die hard fans and apologists for whom their brand of choice can do no wrong.

But I couldn't agree with you more. The apologist, fanboy, self policy mentality doesn't do anybody any good in trying to get the attention of the company to do better. To much "stop complaining" "buy a PC and leave the forum," "Stop your complaining because I love mine" kinda stuff goes on rather than understanding that the biggest complainers are often the longest and most loyal customers who are disappointed with the current direction and trend.

 

[maflynn]

I'm liking the the 4k antiglare option, I wished Lenovo had that for us Gen 1 owners, but such is life.

While its a hands on, it does provide some nice info early on and we may actually see reviews prior to the units landing in people's hands this time

 

[turbineseaplane]

Great video review..

Good lord - these things just MASSACRE MacBook Pro's in terms of specs, flexibility, versatility - just everything.

I'm sorry, but Apple doesn't even come close to making the best Pro laptops anymore in my opinion.

(I'm sure plenty will show up and disagree with me - all good)

To save someone the breath - yes, the Apple trackpads are probably still best.
That's not much to hang the hat on anymore to be honest.

[doublepost=1558290915][/doublepost]

Right now there is not one Apple notebook I'm interested in. Not one.

Me either.
If you gave me one for free, I'd put it up for sale without even opening it.

(and likely take a bath vs MSRP, straight out of the gate)

 

[c0ppo]

So what does pop_os give you that ubuntu doesn't? I loaded PopOS on an old laptop to try it out and its nice, but its based on ubuntu. I'm more used to ubuntu in some respects, like the doc always being present.

Some dev tools that come preinstalled, nothing major.
But the most important thing is GPU drivers. They come preinstalled with PopOS, and you can manually switch between iGPU or nVidia. Basically, when I'm out of the office, my X1E is always on iGPU. Better battery life.

Besides that, PopOS takes more RAM then Ubuntu. Sounds like a bad thing, but things are a little faster and snappier then on Ubuntu. And since our X1E has more then enough resources, why wouldn't I use them for my own pleasure?

Also what are you doing in Pop and not windows?
-

Nothing I couldn't do in Windows. I use PopOS for Unity3D and Godot game dev. I also use terminal a lot for a lot of reasons. But all of that can be done one Windows as well. But windows... Don't get me started, because there will be another 'my OS is better then your OS' war

3) Yes, you can replace the screen yourself. I believe @c0ppo did that.

Actually, repair service did that one for me. I would do it myself, but couldn't find the panel for purchase anywhere

P.S.
Sorry for the late reply, I was on a 10 day trip.

 

[hajime]

My experience seems to be that under battery, the X1E is dead silent. However, when it is plugged to an AC adapter or under Linux. Then, I don't like it because it starts to get crazy fan noise even I don't push the CPU.

Under Linux, launching the browser and playing non-4K video alone caused noisy fans. Do those who have tried Linux have this experience?

 

[MrGunnyPT]

My experience seems to be that under battery, the X1E is dead silent. However, when it is plugged to an AC adapter or under Linux. Then, I don't like it because it starts to get crazy fan noise even I don't push the CPU.

Under Linux, launching the browser and playing non-4K video alone caused noisy fans. Do those who have tried Linux have this experience?

Same happened with the Dell XPS I believe it's the lack of Intel certain drivers or something? Either way I'm still monitoring the situation.

I'm planning to upgrade to a 15" come next year... I'm still waiting for the Macs or any upcoming laptops support Navi or something.

 

[c0ppo]

Under Linux, launching the browser and playing non-4K video alone caused noisy fans. Do those who have tried Linux have this experience?

Linux is a kernel, not a OS. What is the exact distro you're running?
And even then, Linux has to be optimized and configured after installing whatever distro you like.

Did you undervolt under Linux?
Have you installed TLP and configured it for your device?
And a bunch of similar questions.

I suggest you google up on stuff like that. But bare in mind, you're gonna have to use terminal for stuff like these. If you are unfamiliar or unsure what you're doing, please, first read up on it. Don't just copy/paste commands, since all that will get you is a distro install that doesn't work like it should.

I'm running PopOS, with two 2K monitors connected via thunderbolt 3 at the moment. AC connected as well. I'm at home. So no noise around me what so ever. Multiple apps opened, doing just some testing, nothing heavy. And the fans haven't turned on ONCE on me the whole day. And I'm not talking just about jet fan noise, I mean no fans at all, not even when I put my ear near the laptop.

So you have two choices at the moment. You either search online for power management under linux for laptops, or you give up on X1E completely. And I do really believe the second choice is the best one for you.

 

[Mendota]

@SDColorado - oh dear, those laptops look awful. That should never happen. I've seen other models of thinkpads which are quite old and not subject to this kind of wear - I wonder if the bad paint job is confined to certain models. I would be furious if mine ended up like that.

I saw a 6 month old X1E recently where one of the bottom corners had chipped off (so much for being rugged - or maybe it had been dropped from a great height) and it appeared to be black all the way through. Confusing.

There is more to using and having a Notebook than looks. I know people with the black Surface and had no issues with the finish. They just take care of it. But setting that aside, there are no keyboard, graphic card, paint peeling off the displays, etc. Apple is hardly the "gold standard" these days.
[doublepost=1558478015][/doublepost]

The GTX1650 is surprisingly pretty quick. It's 30% faster than the previous GTX1050Ti which is a pretty big boost. GTX 1060 territory. The 9th generation processors only benchmark about 10% faster which isn't a huge deal.

All in all a pretty good boost in performance for the lower-end performance notebooks. More than expected as the RTX high-end cards are somewhat disappointing. I'm still glad I got my XPS 9570 when I did with aftermarket 32GB RAM & 1 TB Samsung Evo SSD total for ~$1600 after taxes. I'm hoping that when it comes time to purchase a new laptop in 4 / 5 years Apple will have ARM options out that crush the competition in performance / watt & Solidworks will be available for Mac. That's the last piece of software that isn't Mac compatible for me - Boot Camp or Parallels has never been a good solution for professional work.

I think the next redesign of the MacBook Pro is going to be a killer. Apple has a chip on it's shoulder.

I think you are being overly optimistic. We don't have any idea if Apple will be able to produce a fast chip that will support the kind of power that current software needs, and Apple hasn't shown that much interest in the Mac, they have given the impression that IOS devices are their priority. And I am curious as to why you think Solidworks or any of the others companies producing 3D software are suddenly going to embrace Mac. That is a lot of work for a small number of users.
[doublepost=1558480319][/doublepost]

It is a bit like being annoyed by the squeaking sound of styrofoam and taking a job in a factory that manufactures it

Oh God, I can't stand that sound! Sends shivers down my spine just to think of it.

 

[hajime]

Linux is a kernel, not a OS. What is the exact distro you're running?
And even then, Linux has to be optimized and configured after installing whatever distro you like.

Did you undervolt under Linux?
Have you installed TLP and configured it for your device?
And a bunch of similar questions.

I suggest you google up on stuff like that. But bare in mind, you're gonna have to use terminal for stuff like these. If you are unfamiliar or unsure what you're doing, please, first read up on it. Don't just copy/paste commands, since all that will get you is a distro install that doesn't work like it should.

I'm running PopOS, with two 2K monitors connected via thunderbolt 3 at the moment. AC connected as well. I'm at home. So no noise around me what so ever. Multiple apps opened, doing just some testing, nothing heavy. And the fans haven't turned on ONCE on me the whole day. And I'm not talking just about jet fan noise, I mean no fans at all, not even when I put my ear near the laptop.

So you have two choices at the moment. You either search online for power management under linux for laptops, or you give up on X1E completely. And I do really believe the second choice is the best one for you.

I have not done anything to Linux. I am also using PopOS. I guess you have better luck and skills than I do.

 

[LindsayD]

There is more to using and having a Notebook than looks. I know people with the black Surface and had no issues with the finish. They just take care of it. But setting that aside, there are no keyboard, graphic card, paint peeling off the displays, etc. Apple is hardly the "gold standard" these days.

I realise there is more to a laptop than looks - but I also think it reasonable for any customer at that price point to expect decent build quality. Peeling paint after what was described as light usage is unacceptable - blaming the end user achieves little in that scenario. There are other cheaper brands which seem to keep their paint fairly well. As for Apple, I've never owned one and I don't intend to!