Lenovo X1 Extreme

[maflynn]

I guess you have better luck and skills than I do.

Luck has nothing to do with it. Time and effort, I'll be the first to admit, i'm not Linux expert and In using PopOS, I found I needed to invest a large amount of time and effort to get certain things working as well as they work in windows. I also had one of my needs unmet, I require the ability to use certain software and it just didn't work the way I wanted to in Linux. I gave up, and maybe when I have time, energy and desire I'll do that.

I've used Linux before and I found you get out what you put in, and investing a lot of effort learning, researching and trying different things pays dividends. I was really happy in how I had fedora running on my old MBP back a few years ago. I even had OS X running in a VM and it was running fairly well.
[doublepost=1558526785][/doublepost]

eeling paint after what was described as light usage is unacceptable

I would agree with that, I wouldn't want to see my laptop peeling

 

[Mendota]

I realise there is more to a laptop than looks - but I also think it reasonable for any customer at that price point to expect decent build quality. Peeling paint after what was described as light usage is unacceptable - blaming the end user achieves little in that scenario. There are other cheaper brands which seem to keep their paint fairly well. As for Apple, I've never owned one and I don't intend to!

Well, I can't disagree with your points. I have one of the blue Surface Laptops and there are no issues with paint on them, and the build quality is excellent, but I don't have the black one so I can't speak for it. I do know that the black iPhones also had issues with the coating. Perhaps shiny black is not the best option. The thing is as someone else stated, one person's idea of light usage might be very different from you or me.
[doublepost=1558558533][/doublepost]

Luck has nothing to do with it. Time and effort, I'll be the first to admit, i'm not Linux expert and In using PopOS, I found I needed to invest a large amount of time and effort to get certain things working as well as they work in windows. I also had one of my needs unmet, I require the ability to use certain software and it just didn't work the way I wanted to in Linux. I gave up, and maybe when I have time, energy and desire I'll do that.

I've used Linux before and I found you get out what you put in, and investing a lot of effort learning, researching and trying different things pays dividends. I was really happy in how I had fedora running on my old MBP back a few years ago. I even had OS X running in a VM and it was running fairly well.
[doublepost=1558526785][/doublepost]
I would agree with that, I wouldn't want to see my laptop peeling

So true, you get out of Linux what you put into it, and it is so rewarding when the effort pays off. But it is not for everyone, and I would never recommend it to someone who wants things to just work.

 

[Queen6]

I'm running PopOS, with two 2K monitors connected via thunderbolt 3 at the moment. AC connected as well. I'm at home. So no noise around me what so ever. Multiple apps opened, doing just some testing, nothing heavy. And the fans haven't turned on ONCE on me the whole day. And I'm not talking just about jet fan noise, I mean no fans at all, not even when I put my ear near the laptop.

So you have two choices at the moment. You either search online for power management under linux for laptops, or you give up on X1E completely. And I do really believe the second choice is the best one for you.

Q; Why PopOS? barring System76's involvement and the Nvida drivers. I've looked at KDE Neon (user edition) with Plasma and like it a lot. I did have it up an running last year and am considering digging out a spare notebook to make a more concerted effort.

W10 is functionally ok for my needs, last I tried macOS it simply wasn't, equally I would prefer to have at least one machine away from the mainstream providers. I do hear a lot of good about PopOS and looked at a fair number of Linux distros 2017/2018 concluding with KDE Neon. Kubuntu is also a consideration again with Plasma, admittedly I need to look deeper as both distros have evolved.

I remember that Ubuntu at the time was shifting from Unity to Gnome, little hazy as I've mostly followed OS X and Windows. My plan in the deep dark past was to run Open Solaris Obviously that went by the wayside thx to Oracle.

I wont install on my primary, probably one of my older secondary's as the current secondary is a 2in1 which adds complexity and battery life is important for it's role. TBH I kind of have the mind set similar to W10, set as you need, backup, use it as a tool and don't overly mess with it for the sake of

DL'ing KDE Neon, although I'm on site I can always have a dabble with the live image...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

Why PopOS?

I can't (and won't) answer for @c0ppo but I opted for PopOS simply because it added a level of polish and features into the OS that enhances the end user experience. I also found that it was a distro that was compatible from the get go with the X1E. Ubuntu, needed some work and was unstable with the initial install. You certainly can add those features yourself to ubuntu.

I also agree, that you're committing yourself to a hardware vendor and there's no guarantee they'll continue with the distro. That was one of my concerns. I've recently wiped PopOS from my drive and I may try another distro. My issue as I noted earlier is that my remote access software does not work on linux - I use that 8 to 10 hours a day. There's little reason to use linux if one my major must haves is unmet.

I've looked at KDE Neon (user edition) with Plasma

I'm leaning towards trying that distro, I may download that into a VM and play with that and see if its worth carving out a couple hundred gig of my SSD to install

W10 is functionally ok for my needs

My thoughts on Linux vs. Windows vs. macOS.
Linux requires a heavier investment in customization and tweaking, either to make the system behave the way I want or just work. There's limitations on apps and drivers

Windows, less tweaking needed, but I can customize as much or as little as I want. For me, it basically works out of the box. Additionally, I have a nice suite of utilities that work nicely and enhance my experience. For instance, I use PhraseExpander to expand text shortcuts.

macOS, offers the best UX but the least in customization. The UI is probably one of the most consistent, and if you're an iOS user, you gain benefits from the integration from the combined usage. MacOS offers the least in flexibility and ability in tweaking. While I used a Mac for years, I always found apps like Office and GotoMyPC didn't work as seamless or as well as their window's counterpart. I managed obviously but I am enjoying the refinement that the windows version brings to the table.

I question why I want to use linux as windows gives me everything, and given that I cannot run GotoMyPC on Linux, Its pretty much sealed that I'll only be dabbling in linux - there's nothing wrong with dabbling but the OS cannot replace windows for me.

 

[grmlin]

PopOS ist great. I love the simplistic approach of the UI and all. How everything is centered around the super key to move around your virtual desktops etc.
I tried KDE, too. Nah, that is not for me. Way too many settings, I just need something that works. But that's clearly a matter of personal taste. If you are into that, it's pretty amazing compared to windows/macOS.

But, when I used PopOS, I immediately hit a wall with the first major update. Some dependency from whatever package I used blocked it. All the errors and warnings mean nothing but frustration to someone new to Linux. I quickly gave up and installed Fedora, just to try something else.

 

[maflynn]

gave up and installed Fedora

Fedora is pretty cutting edge and while I liked it, I found it to require a lot more work and less things seemed to work upon initial install. Upgrading to a new version on Fedora was always a hassle for me. I've generally had good luck with ubuntu when it comes to upgrades, YMMV obviously.

 

[grmlin]

I didn't say installing the latest update of Fedora was a cake-walk lol.
I had to reinstall Linux because I messed up my PopOS installation, and just wanted to see what else Linux has to offer.

 

[maflynn]

I didn't say installing the latest update of Fedora was a cake-walk lol.
I had to reinstall Linux because I messed up my PopOS installation, and just wanted to see what else Linux has to offer.

Yeah, been there done that

 

[Queen6]

I'm leaning towards trying that distro, I may download that into a VM and play with that and see if its worth carving out a couple hundred gig of my SSD to install

KDE Neon is very bare bones, nor exactly a distro. There's a lot that appeals to me and I've tried it before, stumbling block for me previously was lack of some critical software and battery life, mostly due to myself not having enough experience/knowledge. Kubuntu offers a more user friendly distro with the Plasma desktop environment, however it does come populated with applications.

I far prefer the base OS and then I will choose the software payload, this and KDE Neon's tremendous flexibility very much attracts. Both the mainstream OS and many distro's tend to dump endless application on the install image especially the former. KDE Neon you only have what you want on the system. You need to invest time to set up, equally similar to Windows once set up you can leave it be, unless you cant Personally once set up I don't tend change too much as I generally know what I want.

My thoughts on Linux vs. Windows vs. macOS.
Linux requires a heavier investment in customization and tweaking, either to make the system behave the way I want or just work. There's limitations on apps and drivers

Windows, less tweaking needed, but I can customize as much or as little as I want. For me, it basically works out of the box. Additionally, I have a nice suite of utilities that work nicely and enhance my experience. For instance, I use PhraseExpander to expand text shortcuts.

macOS, offers the best UX but the least in customization. The UI is probably one of the most consistent, and if you're an iOS user, you gain benefits from the integration from the combined usage. MacOS offers the least in flexibility and ability in tweaking. While I used a Mac for years, I always found apps like Office and GotoMyPC didn't work as seamless or as well as their window's counterpart. I managed obviously but I am enjoying the refinement that the windows version brings to the table.

I question why I want to use linux as windows gives me everything, and given that I cannot run GotoMyPC on Linux, Its pretty much sealed that I'll only be dabbling in linux - there's nothing wrong with dabbling but the OS cannot replace windows for me.

macOS has simply proved itself inadequate of dealing with heavy workflow, resulting in multiple issues. Windows 10 works, equally needs some management although that's improving. Linux offers the most freedom and at this point in time I think will be good option for my secondary notebook (subject to hardware) To be perfectly frank I'm considering in the long-term to drop the major OS completely. I neither trust Apple or Microsoft although I edge towards the latter as I know more of what I'm dealing with. Apple security is simply another sales and marketing tool, not saying that Apple is bad, just not the champions that they want to project.

Previously I had some dead ends as similar to you there was no software available, however looking again recently several avenues have opened up as the providers now have Linux versions.

As for PopOS being an aspect of System76 is both a positive and negative, I suspect an easier set up, yet somebody else's vision and in time likely ever more linked to their own hardware. Thinking something independent such as KDE Neon is the way forward. Right now mostly catching up on latest distro's as again battery life on a notebook is ever relevant, then one has to all so account for the user experience...

FWIW KDE Neon also supports touch screens, although I have yet to try it.

Q-6

 

[c0ppo]

https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/207119/lenovo-surges-on-healthy-pc-sales

Seems as Lenovo is on the roll.

 

[TSE]

Tbh, I think they're oblivious to the frustration. Also, I'd be surprised to see a redesign this year.

Yeah you were right. I wonder if Apple is switching to two updates a year - one for the CPU and one later in the year to update the GPU like they did last year.

Let's hope for next year on the redesign. I want them to come out with a bigger screen MacBook Pro where the larger footprint will be able to disperse heat better, do away with the touchbar, and change out that keyboard. This has probably been Apple's worst computer design in my lifetime (born in 1993).

 

[pzo]

Do you think new Intel 9th gen cpu will have hardware mitigations agains ZombieLoad so won't have to turn off hyperthreading? Intel shows i7-9750H as both in "Intel64 Family 6 Model 158 Stepping 10" and in "Intel64 Family 6 Model 158 Stepping 13" [1]. Seems like those latest CPU vulnerability can hit performance quite badly up to 25% [2]. Wondering if I should still wait another year otherwise maybe I will barely feel any performance improvement with new laptop upgrade.

[1] https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...ngineering-new-protections-into-hardware.html
[2] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Spec-Melt-L1TF-MDS-Laptop-Run

 

[Apathy Overdose]

It seems like Lenovo doesn't give you that big student/military/teacher discount anymore. Used to be $500+ but now only about $100.

 

[maflynn]

It seems like Lenovo doesn't give you that big student/military/teacher discount anymore. Used to be $500+ but now only about $100.

Perhaps not, but they have frequent sales that typically discount the laptops 30% which is a sizable price cut.

 

[Apathy Overdose]

Perhaps not, but they have frequent sales that typically discount the laptops 30% which is a sizable price cut.

I hope there's one of these sales for the new yoga s940 laptop soon. I think it's their best looking ultrabook and the specs aren't shabby either.

 

[maflynn]

I've noticed some increase fan activity on my laptop and temps have inched up a bit more then they were a month or two ago. Nothing major but i'm seeing temps in the high 50s

I know that ambient temps are partly to cause given that we're in the summer but I think there may be other things impacting the temps.

I'm not sure about the package frequency that's bouncing around quite a bit as show. I have no idea if that's normal, my machine is nearly idle though I have chrome and edge running.

I've made some improvements due to uninstalling the iCloud app and killing the steam app. In the process explorer both were eating up fairly high level of cpu cycles. I'm now seeing temps in the low 50s but I'd like to try to improve that if possible.

[doublepost=1560426822][/doublepost]I think I found the root of the cause.

First, I noticed things settled down a lot when I killed malwarebytes from actively running. Secondly, Changing the slider from better battery to best performance fixed the issue. Now I'm seeing a nearly straight line on the package frequency graph.

I can surmise that by changing the performance, windows stopped trying to limit power so background tasks such as malwarebytes wasn't causing the frequency to bounce around

 

[Queen6]

More you have ticking in the background the higher the idle temp. I use Process Explorer and Autoruns to evaluate and nix all the unwanted. As for my GL703GS I have it set to max performance when plugged in, fans do run however not obnoxiously so, unless the system is pushed.

I ditched Malwarebytes some time back as I think it's not really adding anything. I just back up Windows Defender with manual scans of Emsisoft Emergency Kit Scanner and Kaspersky's KVRT so far zero hits. If I wanted 3r party AV I's opt for Bitdefender.

Q-6

 

[hajime]

Anybody here turned their X1E into a Hackintosh? How is the experience (e.g. reliability, battery life, fan noise, usefulness of Nvidia GPU)? I want to enjoy Mac OS on laptops from other manufacturers.

 

[lcseds]

Anybody here turned their X1E into a Hackintosh? How is the experience (e.g. reliability, battery life, fan noise, usefulness of Nvidia GPU)? I want to enjoy Mac OS on laptops from other manufacturers.

Is this going in circles?

If the factory cooling/performance does not work for you, don't try and cross hardware/software platforms. Can't imagine you would like the experience.

 

[hajime]

Is this going in circles?

If the factory cooling/performance does not work for you, don't try and cross hardware/software platforms. Can't imagine you would like the experience.

Maybe I will go to a mental hospital before I can find the right machine. The new management of Apple really scre*ed me up.

 

[Queen6]

Maybe I will go to a mental hospital before I can find the right machine. The new management of Apple really scre*ed me up.

Like the rest of us you need to adapt and move on, nor is it like there's a shortage of options.

Apple is clearly cutting more ties with Nvidia, reducing the attraction.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

Anybody here turned their X1E into a Hackintosh? How is the experience (e.g. reliability, battery life, fan noise, usefulness of Nvidia GPU)? I want to enjoy Mac OS on laptops from other manufacturers.

Take a deep breath, and just relax. You're getting yourself all twisted up.

First, you have to accept that there are things with the Lenovo laptops that you will not like or want. Secondly, I wouldn't bother trying to hackintosh a laptop, a lot of work for not much gain. I also think its highly unlikely since Lenovo uses nvidia graphics. At this point since you're so focused on macOS, why not get one of the new MBPs? Many of the issues you mention in the MBP forum are not affecting all users and I think are a rarity.

Also, you're over thinking and unwilling to accept the smallest imperfection. As many people have said here laptops are a mixture of compromises. While I don't think people ought to blindly accept defects, you need realize that not one machine will be perfect. The latest MBP seems to have most of what you want, so why not get that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You've mentioned that you have a desktop machine for all of your heavy lifting, so you don't need the likes of a ThinkPad X1E, so look into the ultrabooks that are passively cooled if you still want a windows pc over a Mac.
[doublepost=1561198556][/doublepost]

Like the rest of us you need to adapt and move on, nor is it like there's a shortage of options.

I can only speak about myself but with the plethora of choices, I got something that I long gave up on the mac side - expandability.

Apple is clearly cutting more ties with Nvidia, reducing the attraction.

For many pros, yeah but I will say most consumers walking into the apple store won't know a GPU if it walked up and hit them in the nose.

 

[hajime]

Take a deep breath, and just relax. You're getting yourself all twisted up.

First, you have to accept that there are things with the Lenovo laptops that you will not like or want. Secondly, I wouldn't bother trying to hackintosh a laptop, a lot of work for not much gain. I also think its highly unlikely since Lenovo uses nvidia graphics. At this point since you're so focused on macOS, why not get one of the new MBPs? Many of the issues you mention in the MBP forum are not affecting all users and I think are a rarity.

Also, you're over thinking and unwilling to accept the smallest imperfection. As many people have said here laptops are a mixture of compromises. While I don't think people ought to blindly accept defects, you need realize that not one machine will be perfect. The latest MBP seems to have most of what you want, so why not get that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You've mentioned that you have a desktop machine for all of your heavy lifting, so you don't need the likes of a ThinkPad X1E, so look into the ultrabooks that are passively cooled if you still want a windows pc over a Mac.
[doublepost=1561198556][/doublepost]
I can only speak about myself but with the plethora of choices, I got something that I long gave up on the mac side - expandability.


For many pros, yeah but I will say most consumers walking into the apple store won't know a GPU if it walked up and hit them in the nose.

The iPad OS seems to be able to turn an iPad Pro 12.9" into a reasonably good ultraportable for doing basic office productivity, pdf annotation, giving PowerPoint and pdf presentations in class. Too bad there are many bugs in the beta version so I cannot try now to get a feel on how useful my IPP can become. It could be a machine I could use more often. For the past year, my IPP is just used for youtube video playing and web browsing.

So I wonder if I should get a thicker and heavier machine such as a Thinkpad P53 for CAD and CUDA coding on the road. In that case, I can have an ultra portable IPP, a powerful workstation at home and a powerful laptop for on the go coding. P1 Gen 2 is coming but it is thinner than Gen 1. So, may be worse thermal. X1E Gen 2 will probably have worse thermal as well.

I ordered X1 Yoga Gen 4 but it will take 2 weeks to arrive. During this waiting period, several interesting machines could have been released. It costs even more than a X1E with 8850H and 32GB. I wonder if it is a good investment given that my IPP can do more productivity work with iPad OS.

 

[KarmaRocket]

The Thinkpad P53 will be significantly heavier than the X1E. If you're doing CUDA coding and CAD work you will like the P53's GPU a lot more. You will just have to make sacrifices with weight and battery life.

Keep in mind any machine with a dGPU is going to have fan noise when you start doing more complex work.

The P53 is getting an update soon with RTX Quadros. Might want to wait for that.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/P53/p/22WS2WPWP53

 

[hajime]

The Thinkpad P53 will be significantly heavier than the X1E. If you're doing CUDA coding and CAD work you will like the P53's GPU a lot more. You will just have to make sacrifices with weight and battery life.

Keep in mind any machine with a dGPU is going to have fan noise when you start doing more complex work.

The P53 is getting an update soon with RTX Quadros. Might want to wait for that.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/P53/p/22WS2WPWP53

I am concerned about battery life. If it is like that of Legion series laptops (2-3 hours) that will be a deal breaker as the AC adapter of P52 is heavy already.

P52 seems to have non-intrusive fan noise. Not sure about p53 yet.