Resolved Macbook Pro 2015 with OSX El Capitan 10.11.4 system wide freeze (Read the details)

[dmnc]

It wasn't my intention to brag. I was just using a fact to illustrate a point. I could've just as easily used the OSX/Leap-A virus as an example. However, I didn't know enough about it the first place (in fact, I just googled about the history of mac virii), which is why I presented my proof-of-concept virus. Also, if you indeed have a master degree in computer science, then it should prove of good use to us here

Now, you say that virii now-a-days are "super sophisticated and run in silence". Doesn't that sound like what we might have here? I'm not saying it definitely absolutely is a virus, just the we be open to the idea that it might be.


This isn't what I've experienced. I bought a brand new 13" Macbook Pro Retina and hadn't experienced this issue until several months after, which is one of the reasons why I'm open to the idea of it being a virus.

If there is a virus is very unlikely for people doing completely different things to get it. That's the first problem of your hypothesis. Furthermore, how can the virus appear in a just installed system? One way would be to infect the firmware or the recovery partition, in any of those cases how can downgrading to a prior version erase the virus? For that to happen there must be a rather big exploit and Apple wouldn't remain silent about it.
Good idea but it makes no sense. Sorry.

 

[Vermifuge]

It wasn't my intention to brag. I was just using a fact to illustrate a point. I could've just as easily used the OSX/Leap-A virus as an example. However, I didn't know enough about it the first place (in fact, I just googled about the history of mac virii), which is why I presented my proof-of-concept virus. Also, if you indeed have a master degree in computer science, then it should prove of good use to us here

Now, you say that virii now-a-days are "super sophisticated and run in silence". Doesn't that sound like what we might have here? I'm not saying it definitely absolutely is a virus, just the we be open to the idea that it might be.

This isn't what I've experienced. I bought a brand new 13" Macbook Pro Retina and hadn't experienced this issue until several months after, which is one of the reasons why I'm open to the idea of it being a virus.

Why are you still going on about this? Can you please keep this thread on topic? You are obviously using this thread as a opportunity to promote your "skills" and be a braggart. The rest of us are attempting to figure out the true nature of the issue. If you are not able to replicate the issue (on a new machine) it only illustrates that you don't understand what is going on here. It is not related to a worm, virus or similar. You are only fear mongering and you should just see your way out of this conversation.

As a QA Engineer I have may Macs at my disposal and have been able the replicate this sites on newly imaged systems. Particularly on my MacBooks. Clean systems.

 

[PeterjMcM]

So, unfortunately op may should update the state to not solved.

 

[GiveMeAnthony]

Why are you still going on about this? Can you please keep this thread on topic? You are obviously using this thread as a opportunity to promote your "skills" and be a braggart. The rest of us are attempting to figure out the true nature of the issue. If you are not able to replicate the issue (on a new machine) it only illustrates that you don't understand what is going on here. It is not related to a worm, virus or similar. You are only fear mongering and you should just see your way out of this conversation.

As a QA Engineer I have may Macs at my disposal and have been able the replicate this sites on newly imaged systems. Particularly on my MacBooks. Clean systems.

Don't talk as if you know my intentions. My intention was to question the issue further. I'm no more a braggart than you are with your surplusage of expensive Macs lying around.

You say your Macs are "newly imaged". What precisely do you mean by this? What process did you go through to make the system clean like it came from an Apple Store? I'm asking because my particular 13" Macbook Pro Retina didn't experience this issue until several months after purchase.

 

[kevinkyoo]

Don't talk as if you know my intentions. My intention was to question the issue further. I'm no more a braggart than you are with your surplusage of expensive Macs lying around.

You say your Macs are "newly imaged". What precisely do you mean by this? What process did you go through to make the system clean like it came from an Apple Store? I'm asking because my particular 13" Macbook Pro Retina didn't experience this issue until several months after purchase.

Pretty sure he means reinstalling a new OSX. My dad also has a 2015 13" rMBP, and he had the same problems. We reinstalled OS X, started brand new, and still had the problems with Safari with nothing installed.

 

[GiveMeAnthony]

If there is a virus is very unlikely for people doing completely different things to get it. That's the first problem of your hypothesis. Furthermore, how can the virus appear in a just installed system? One way would be to infect the firmware or the recovery partition, in any of those cases how can downgrading to a prior version erase the virus? For that to happen there must be a rather big exploit and Apple wouldn't remain silent about it.
Good idea but it makes no sense. Sorry.

The downgraded system doesn't support the new hardware features for which the security patch was designed for, so it wouldn't be able to execute arbitrary kernel code. It may still exist on the system, it just wouldn't be able to do anything. Still, I agree that it would be strange for Apple to remain silent about it.
[doublepost=1464654204][/doublepost]

Pretty sure he means reinstalling a new OSX. My dad also has a 2015 13" rMBP, and he had the same problems. We reinstalled OS X, started brand new, and still had the problems with Safari with nothing installed.

If that's the case, then it could be that something (bug, virus, or otherwise) is preserved.
I'd like see someone try to encrypt their entire disk (recovery partition and all) with an alternative live OS (in other words, not FileVault), making sure to store the encryption key ONLY on a USB stick or external drive (or just delete the encryption key), then resetting the NVRAM and SMC, then turning the system off for 15 minutes to clear data remnance, and finally reflashing the EFI ROM. After that, install OS X onto the system again. Though, I'm not sure how to do that last step when all of this has been done.

 

[Truefan31]

well so far so good for a few days now. watching videos in both chrome/safari has been fine, no freezes. I did just update my ram from 24gb to 32gb, taking out the old 4 gb ram, replacing with two crucial 8gb ram. I don't know if that really did it honestly. Also did a smc reset and nvram reset too. Of course now that i've posted this i'll start getting freezes and restarts lol.

 

[Vermifuge]

Pretty sure he means reinstalling a new OSX. My dad also has a 2015 13" rMBP, and he had the same problems. We reinstalled OS X, started brand new, and still had the problems with Safari with nothing installed.

Correct. In my lab I have a locker full of modern & legacy system used for testing. They are often imaged depending on the project needs.

As you stated... If the EFI, restore partition, boot sector whatever was storing malware, why doesn't the problem occur in older versions (as started participants of this thread) of OS X? At least a few people mentioned reverting to (10.10.X) and a few others have reverted to 10.11.3 to escape this problem. If this is a legitimate workaround then it's unlikely any sort of virus, worm or trojan would be responsible.

This all points to a bug... probably software... possibly hardware.

 

[Antonnn]

I'm retiring from this thread, there's a little over two weeks until the next OS X so I'll probably jump on the beta (yeah I know, I promise I'll do backups)

Good luck everyone and thanks for your time.

 

[m4d345D]

Macbook Pro (Retina, 15-inch Mid 2012)

The update to 10.11.5 did not solve the issue, which i encountered multiple times under 10.11.4. This is the second time the computer freezes and automatically reboots under the said version. As it turned out, in terms of stability, 10.11.5 does nothing other than perpetuate my bitterness.

EDIT: Noticeably, this problem always occur while using safari.

 

[dmnc]

The downgraded system doesn't support the new hardware features for which the security patch was designed for, so it wouldn't be able to execute arbitrary kernel code. It may still exist on the system, it just wouldn't be able to do anything. Still, I agree that it would be strange for Apple to remain silent about it.
[doublepost=1464654204][/doublepost]
If that's the case, then it could be that something (bug, virus, or otherwise) is preserved.
I'd like see someone try to encrypt their entire disk (recovery partition and all) with an alternative live OS (in other words, not FileVault), making sure to store the encryption key ONLY on a USB stick or external drive (or just delete the encryption key), then resetting the NVRAM and SMC, then turning the system off for 15 minutes to clear data remnance, and finally reflashing the EFI ROM. After that, install OS X onto the system again. Though, I'm not sure how to do that last step when all of this has been done.

What? You are suggesting that a vulnerability was introduced with 10.11.4? This is completely off-topic. It's not a virus.

 

[Vermifuge]

What? You are suggesting that a vulnerability was introduced with 10.11.4? This is completely off-topic. It's not a virus.

Ignore him. He's just pushing his own agenda.

 

[edmundostudios]

Hey,

For me the issue was fixed by not using safari and chrome in 10.11.4 safari now seems fine in .5 for past 2 weeks.

I have been in contact and have received feedback from engineers at apple today. They were aware of this issue a while ago obviously before .5 came out. The fix for the specific problem was addressed in 10.11.5 as a confirmation so at this point if you are still having issues you might want to look at getting a hardware replacement or troubleshoot a different problem.

I have read a few posts here with people having "freezes" but not the same problem because the bug froze the user interface requiring the user to manually reset the system using the power button. That is a completely different issue if your system is automatically restarting after freeze, mouse cursor is still moving and trackpad is still clicking then this was never the same problem.

I would be interested to see if 10.11.5 fixed any freezes on iMac users as the hardware is quite different.

 

[Truefan31]

Hey,

For me the issue was fixed by not using safari and chrome in 10.11.4 safari now seems fine in .5 for past 2 weeks.

I have been in contact and have received feedback from engineers at apple today. They were aware of this issue a while ago obviously before .5 came out. The fix for the specific problem was addressed in 10.11.5 as a confirmation so at this point if you are still having issues you might want to look at getting a hardware replacement or troubleshoot a different problem.

I have read a few posts here with people having "freezes" but not the same problem because the bug froze the user interface requiring the user to manually reset the system using the power button. That is a completely different issue if your system is automatically restarting after freeze, mouse cursor is still moving and trackpad is still clicking then this was never the same problem.

I would be interested to see if 10.11.5 fixed any freezes on iMac users as the hardware is quite different.

on 10.11.5 my 2013 imac just froze and restarted while using opera. watching a video on youtube.

 

[edmundostudios]

on 10.11.5 my 2013 imac just froze and restarted while using opera. watching a video on youtube.

Does it restart by its self? This specific issue is an interface freeze meaning the system is still running but UI was bugged and caused the trackpad to turn off. if it restarts by it's self more likely to be a hardware problem due to auto shutdown.

 

[Truefan31]

Does it restart by its self? This specific issue is an interface freeze meaning the system is still running but UI was bugged and caused the trackpad to turn off. if it restarts by it's self more likely to be a hardware problem due to auto shutdown.

Well I've done every diag test I can think of. I do the Apple diag test, no error code ever gets thrown. Smart tools show healthy ssd health. So I'm guessing it's the software. My Mac on Mavericks and Yosemite never did this.

 

[Vermifuge]

Hey,

For me the issue was fixed by not using safari and chrome in 10.11.4 safari now seems fine in .5 for past 2 weeks.

I have been in contact and have received feedback from engineers at apple today. They were aware of this issue a while ago obviously before .5 came out. The fix for the specific problem was addressed in 10.11.5 as a confirmation so at this point if you are still having issues you might want to look at getting a hardware replacement or troubleshoot a different problem.

I have read a few posts here with people having "freezes" but not the same problem because the bug froze the user interface requiring the user to manually reset the system using the power button. That is a completely different issue if your system is automatically restarting after freeze, mouse cursor is still moving and trackpad is still clicking then this was never the same problem.

I would be interested to see if 10.11.5 fixed any freezes on iMac users as the hardware is quite different.

Sorry mate. This isn't a hardware issue. When reverting to 10.11.3 fixes the problem then what you are talking about is a software bug.

When the system hangs (at least on the 15" Pro) the system will usually recover after some time. During this hang the HID devices will not respond until the process that is hanging the system is resolved. At this point the system will resume normal operation and replay any inputed HID device commands (Trackpad gestures, mouse clicks, keyboard input, ETC) that were previously attempted in quick succession. Yes in some cases the hang will take so long, the system will need be restarted (Normally on the 13" MacBooks) Though I have experienced this on my personal 15" Macbook Pro. It's possible the system recover on it's own if left long enough.

A key thing to note is when this happens to me, I can still hear friends talking in TeamSpeak even though I can not respond (Because HID input has been suspended.) when normal operation resumes I'm still connected to the TS server as are all other online applications that have been running.

 

[JesperA]

I would be interested to see if 10.11.5 fixed any freezes on iMac users as the hardware is quite different.

Yes, 10.11.5 still freezes on my iMac

Sorry mate. This isn't a hardware issue. When reverting to 10.11.3 fixes the problem then what you are talking about is a software bug.

When the system hangs (at least on the 15" Pro) the system will usually recover after some time. During this hang the HID devices will not respond until the process that is hanging the system is resolved. At this point the system will resume normal operation and replay any inputed HID device commands (Trackpad gestures, mouse clicks, keyboard input, ETC) that were previously attempted in quick succession. Yes in some cases the hang will take so long, the system will need be restarted (Normally on the 13" MacBooks) Though I have experienced this on my personal 15" Macbook Pro. It's possible the system recover on it's own if left long enough.

A key thing to note is when this happens to me, I can still hear friends talking in TeamSpeak even though I can not respond (Because HID input has been suspended.) when normal operation resumes I'm still connected to the TS server as are all other online applications that have been running.

The bug you are speaking about is another freeze bug, not the freeze bug that this thread is about, the freeze bug that this thread is about does not unfreeze by itself no matter how long you wait (i have been letting my Macs wait up to 8 hour, no unfreeze)

I have also have the bug that you are speaking about that "replay" all the input that was done during the freeze, that freeze bug is behaving completely different than what this thread is about

 

[Vermifuge]

Yes, 10.11.5 still freezes on my iMac
The bug you are speaking about is another freeze bug, not the freeze bug that this thread is about, the freeze bug that this thread is about does not unfreeze by itself no matter how long you wait (i have been letting my Macs wait up to 8 hour, no unfreeze)
I have also have the bug that you are speaking about that "replay" all the input that was done during the freeze, that freeze bug is behaving completely different than what this thread is about

Both manifestations seem to be brought on by Browser use + video playback. Further, this seems to occur in Chrome but more commonly in Safari. Video Playback seems to be a key trigger. Specifically HTML5 (non Flash) video play back. This would explain why it occurs more commonly in Safari, as Chrome has a built in copy of Flash that currently gets priority in video playback. That leads me to believe these issues are NOT mutually exclusive. I.E. two manifestations of the same issues.

 

[Acorn]

Just wanted to add that when my macbook air 13 inch 2013 froze on 10.11.5 it was safari that I had open when it froze.

 

[GiveMeAnthony]

What? You are suggesting that a vulnerability was introduced with 10.11.4? This is completely off-topic. It's not a virus.

Being that the title of this entire thread is Macbook Pro 2015 with OSX El Capitan 10.11.4 system wide freeze (Read the details) then yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. The system freezes started with that version and a security update was made to 10.11.5 which seems to have fixed some rMBPs (including my own).

 

[edmundostudios]

Sorry mate. This isn't a hardware issue. When reverting to 10.11.3 fixes the problem then what you are talking about is a software bug.

When the system hangs (at least on the 15" Pro) the system will usually recover after some time. During this hang the HID devices will not respond until the process that is hanging the system is resolved. At this point the system will resume normal operation and replay any inputed HID device commands (Trackpad gestures, mouse clicks, keyboard input, ETC) that were previously attempted in quick succession. Yes in some cases the hang will take so long, the system will need be restarted (Normally on the 13" MacBooks) Though I have experienced this on my personal 15" Macbook Pro. It's possible the system recover on it's own if left long enough.

A key thing to note is when this happens to me, I can still hear friends talking in TeamSpeak even though I can not respond (Because HID input has been suspended.) when normal operation resumes I'm still connected to the TS server as are all other online applications that have been running.

What you are saying is not wrong, but my point was that this is a completely separate issue which would be better addressed creating a new thread or following one that already exists to help find an actual fix to individual problems users are posting. Otherwise this thread becomes more confusing and less coherent to people trying to troubleshoot this specific bug as it appears to be fixed in 10.11.5.

 

[grahamperrin]

@GiveMeAnthony sysdiagnose is your friend. Have the system prepared to recognise the key chord and for exceptional cases, be prepared to wait a very long time for progress and (hopefully) completion of the sysdiagnose routine.

If you have a second computer with an ssh client, then consider a remote connection to the affected Mac. Mabybe tail things until the problem occurs. You'll get the idea.

If you like, post output from the following:

sudo kextstat | grep -v com.apple

 

[GiveMeAnthony]

@GiveMeAnthony sysdiagnose is your friend. Have the system prepared to recognise the key chord and for exceptional cases, be prepared to wait a very long time for progress and (hopefully) completion of the sysdiagnose routine.

If you have a second computer with an ssh client, then consider a remote connection to the affected Mac. Mabybe tail things until the problem occurs. You'll get the idea.

If you like, post output from the following:

sudo kextstat | grep -v com.apple

Fortunately for me, my computer is no longer affected by the system freezes since upgrading to 10.11.15. Unfortunately however, I don't have another Mac to test on (The 2015 13" rMBP is the first Mac I've ever personally bought. I come from a Linux and BSD background). Though I'm not sure its relevant at this point, I can tell you now that the only third party kernel extensions I have loaded are Radio Silence, Karabiner, and Intel HAXM. In order for me to attempt to diagnose the issue, I'd have to downgrade to 10.11.14, recreate the symptoms, and perhaps try your suggestions.

P.S. As of today I just learned about sysdiagnose, thank you. This tool wasn't available on 10.1 (the last OS X system I used).

 

[tywebb13]

Fortunately for me, my computer is no longer affected by the system freezes since upgrading to 10.11.15. Unfortunately however, I don't have another Mac to test on (The 2015 13" rMBP is the first Mac I've ever personally bought. I come from a Linux and BSD background). Though I'm not sure its relevant at this point, I can tell you now that the only third party kernel extensions I have loaded are Radio Silence, Karabiner, and Intel HAXM. In order for me to attempt to diagnose the issue, I'd have to downgrade to 10.11.14, recreate the symptoms, and perhaps try your suggestions.

P.S. As of today I just learned about sysdiagnose, thank you. This tool wasn't available on 10.1 (the last OS X system I used).

10.11.14 and 10.11.15 seem a bit ambitious. Did you mean 10.11.4 and 10.11.5?

Most people thought we wouldn't get past 10.11.5 for el capitan and were surprised to see new 10.11.6 betas.

10.1 was puma. Was that really your last system or was that a typo?