MacOS 12/13/14 - Carbon Copy Cloner 6 - Users Thread

[dai-leung]

When I restored from a CCC snapshot, inside "task filter", under my account, there is a "Library" folder. There is no such folder on the data volume, CCC backup or on Time Machine backup.

Could someone please help to explain what is this Library folder?

 

[trifero]

When I restored from a CCC snapshot, inside "task filter", under my account, there is a "Library" folder. There is no such folder on the data volume, CCC backup or on Time Machine backup.

Could someone please help to explain what is this Library folder?
View attachment 2360245

The basic, needed, primigenial folder of almost every OS, besides the one of the system. It was always there, though maybe you could´t see it.

 

[dai-leung]

primigenial folder of almost every OS, besides the one of the system. It was always there

trifero, thanks! You are correct, I found this hidden "primigenial" "Library" folder. Any idea, what is the purpose of this folder? (I opened the folder, but didn't understand the purpose of all the files).

you can clone directly the OCLP installation if you have it, no need to make a clean install and then use Migration Assistant. Just the same, revert root patches and clone it. Once booted, reapply root patches.

I am highly interested in your post, but I don't have the technical background to understand what you said. Would it be possible to give more explanations and give more details?

 

[trifero]

trifero, thanks! You are correct, I found this hidden "primigenial" "Library" folder. Any idea, what is the purpose of this folder? (I opened the folder, but didn't understand the purpose of all the files).


I am highly interested in your post, but I don't have the technical background to understand what you said. Would it be possible to give more explanations and give more details?

Really, my friend, I tried to explain it as easy as possible for me. Maybe someone on this thread can don irt better?

 

[dai-leung]

How to restore to an old snapshot, but keep the current and latest files? Perhaps, the answer is obvious to everyone, but not to me for a long time.

I have been doing many restore mac experiments. Sometime, after an experiment and after sometime had passed, I then found out the mac would not work correctly(for example, MS Word wouldn't work right). I then had to restore the mac from a snapshot that was several weeks old. By then I had created and modified many files. When I restored to the old snapshot, all these files would be lost. So I had to painstakingly and laboriously find out what these files were and copied them to an external drive before restore.

I was watching CCC's youtube video on how to restore files. I then realized there is an very easy way to do this. It is to restore to the old snapshot at which state the mac was working correctly, but then use the task filter to exclude the /users folder. The /users contains all the current files of all the users on this mac. I don't care about the users' files on the old snapshot. (old bottle with new wine?).

One thing I don't understand is the hidden "Library" folder in the /users which trifero was kind to let me know how to find it. But I still don't know the consequence of excluding it from restore.

CCC truly is remarkable and multi-potent and is the only software that allows me to do the above, and easily.

 

[dai-leung]

Really, my friend, I tried to explain it as easy as possible for me

trifero, the problem is not you, perhaps, I am just hopelessly behind.

 

[trifero]

trifero, the problem is not you, perhaps, I am just hopelessly behind.

No! It´s just that I am terrible at explaining things! Its so easy , reallly.

 

[Realityck]

When I restored from a CCC snapshot, inside "task filter", under my account, there is a "Library" folder. There is no such folder on the data volume, CCC backup or on Time Machine backup.

Could someone please help to explain what is this Library folder?
View attachment 2360245

You are just seeing a hidden system files related folder in CCC's volume hierarchy. CCC shows all hidden folders that MacOS hides by default.

• Click on Finder Icon > select the Go tab in top-menu bar and click on Go to Folder… option in the drop-down menu.
• In Go to Folder window, type ~/Library, and click on the Go button.
• This will immediately take you to the Library Folder on your Mac.
• In addition to the Library Folder located at top-level, macOS creates an additional Library Folder for every User Account on the computer.
• The User Level Library Folder on Mac contains multiple system files that store settings, preferences and other data for various Apps and Programs on the Mac.

 

[dai-leung]

Realityck, like I said I am not trained in computer, if I said any wrong, please forgive or igore me. I am here to learn.

I am glad you responded so I have a chance to find out if what I had done is correct.

Below is the scenario:
On day1 I took a snapshot (day1). Then from day1 to day 10(today), I did some experiment on the mac, also each day I created a new file, file(dayX). On day10, I took a snapshot(day10), but found out that the mac is not working correctly. So I go to CCC, and try to restore from snapshot(day1) before the experiment began and I know that at that time the mac was working correctly.

But If I indeed restore to sanpshot(day1), I would have lost file1 to file 10, that is all the files created (or modified) in these 10 days, during which time, I might have delete files or applications. But I only care about my files on days10 because I know for certainty that they are current and are what I want. But for apps and system, I know the one on day1 worked correctly and I have no problem with it.

I figure that snapshot(day10) contains all the files of snapshot(day1) + file1+....+file10. All these files are contained in /users (obviously movie, pictures, etc. For simplicity, I ignore them for now.). That is day10=day1+delta.

Thus, If I restore to snapshot(day1), I would get all the system files +applications that were working before the experiment. However, if I keep /users(day10), I would get all the /users(day1)+ file1+..+file10. That is all my current files.

Thus, I should restore to snapshot(day1) and exclude /users, [the latter means keep /usrs(day10)]. I had done this experiment several times. The oldest sanpshot is Jan 10, which had CCC6 (I am using CCC7 with your and gilby101's help) and but with all my current files (Mar 17) as expected.

Am I correct?

Also I don't understand what you mean by "bootable snapshot" Would you share your thought?

 

[dai-leung]

The User Level Library Folder on Mac contains multiple system files that store settings, preferences and other data for various Apps and Programs on the Mac.

Realityck, thank you! I am digesting what you said to understand the significance of what I am trying to do.

 

[Realityck]

Realityck, like I said I am not trained in computer, if I said any wrong, please forgive or igore me. I am here to learn.

I am glad you responded so I have a chance to find out if what I had done is correct.

Below is the scenario:
On day1 I took a snapshot (day1). Then from day1 to day 10(today), I did some experiment on the mac, also each day I created a new file, file(dayX). On day10, I took a snapshot(day10), but found out that the mac is not working correctly. So I go to CCC, and try to restore from snapshot(day1) before the experiment began and I know that at that time the mac was working correctly.

But If I indeed restore to sanpshot(day1), I would have lost file1 to file 10, that is all the files created (or modified) in these 10 days, during which time, I might have delete files or applications. But I only care about my files on days10 because I know for certainty that they are current and are what I want. But for apps and system, I know the one on day1 worked correctly and I have no problem with it.

I figure that snapshot(day10) contains all the files of snapshot(day1) + file1+....+file10. All these files are contained in /users (obviously movie, pictures, etc. For simplicity, I ignore them for now.). That is day10=day1+delta.

Thus, If I restore to snapshot(day1), I would get all the system files +applications that were working before the experiment. However, if I keep /users(day10), I would get all the /users(day1)+ file1+..+file10. That is all my current files.

Thus, I should restore to snapshot(day1) and exclude /users, [the latter means keep /usrs(day10)]. I had done this experiment several times. The oldest sanpshot is Jan 10, which had CCC6 (I am using CCC7 with your and gilby101's help) and but with all my current files (Mar 17) as expected.

Am I correct?

Also I don't understand what you mean by "bootable snapshot" Would you share your thought?

What is a snapshot, and how does it work?

How are snapshots made, and what do they contain? How are they sized, and can they grow? How can you copy a snapshot, or remove a file from one?

eclecticlight.co

Each APFS volume consists of file system metadata, where it keeps the directories and other information it uses, and all the data that makes up its contents. Within the container, there’s one set of file system metadata for each volume, and the content data is then mixed with that for all the other volumes within that container.

As the name suggests, a snapshot is a capture of one volume at an instant in time. Making that snapshot is very quick and simple: for a moment, that volume’s file system metadata is frozen and duplicated to create an identical copy, which is saved as the snapshot.

Bootable implies that the snap shot can be used to boot up from eternally from the Mac internal SSD using power up options on a AS Mac as an example. CCC when using the legacy bootable cloning mode, does a APFS replication of everything on a APFS volume such as the four volumes that your Mac uses. You see this when looking at Disk Utility at a SSD with show all devices. (Preboot, recovery, system, data)

 

[dai-leung]

Thanks for responding! After I made the Chimera (day1 apps+ system with day10 /users), I could take a snapshot(chimera) again that will be a bona fide snapshot. Will this ease your concern?

 

[Realityck]

Thanks for responding! After I made the Chimera (day1 apps+ system with day10 /users), I could take a snapshot(chimera) again that will be a bona fide snapshot. Will this ease your concern?

It was your comment about trying to decide to exclude hidden /library hierarchy without knowing its importance that I questioned. I only want it to work OK in the end.

 

[dai-leung]

It was your comment about trying to decide to exclude hidden /library hierarchy without knowing its importance that I questioned.

Indeed, with limited technical knowledge, I am quite confused and am two minds about wether exclude is the correct decision and which you rightly questioned.

The case for exclude: the fact that it is located inside /users and is hidden, it would indicate that the original designer wants this folder to go with /users.

The case for not-exclude: is what you said previously "The User Level Library Folder on Mac contains multiple system files that store settings, preferences and other data for various Apps and Programs on the Mac."

Well, one thing for sure, the answer is beyond me.

 

[gilby101]

Well, one thing for sure, the answer is beyond me.

It is not that hard.

In the event of a disaster, do you want to be able to fully restore your system? If yes, don't exclude anything beyond what CCC excludes by default.

If you don't care about ease of system recovery, just backup the files you want to keep - e.g. your documents.

I think you might be better off using Time Machine which is much simpler to configure and is fully capable of restoring your system. CCC gives more choices, but that means more opportunity for getting it wrong.

 

[dai-leung]

gilby101, thanks for your advice! Just wondering if there is any flaw in the argument presented.

 

[trifero]

As I said, I don´t use snapshots on CCC. When i need it, I restore always a full backup. It´s rocket solid.

 

[Minghold]

Is this just me, or is this a CCC bug/functionality issue?

I have a CCC backups of Photos libraries with "Respect macOS Exclusions" enabled in the Task Filter. But CCC ignores the com_apple_backup_excludeItem extended attribute which is set on some of the folders and subfolders inside the library. Instead it backs up everything in the library. This seems unnecessary.

In comparison TM does not backup those folders. And restores of a Photos library create a usable Photos library where the excluded folders get recreated.

CCC has been getting a C- grade at performing its "one job" for quite some time, and that mediocrity extends back to the El Capitan days. (A common, still unaddressed, problem is why a clone will, some goodly percentage of them time, consume much more ram at rest, and run th ed machine hotter, than the original. E.g. a High Sierra clone wanting 6gb at-rest memory on an 8gb system.

 

[Realityck]

CCC has been getting a C- grade at performing its "one job" for quite some time, and that mediocrity extends back to the El Capitan days. (A common, still unaddressed, problem is why a clone will, some goodly percentage of them time, consume much more ram at rest, and run th ed machine hotter, than the original. E.g. a High Sierra clone wanting 6gb at-rest memory on an 8gb system.

Is this on an old intel 8GB Mac as you mention High Sierra with CCC5? I am not seeing any real increase doing a APFS replication legacy clone via CCC6 or CCC7 beta. Yes you use a little bit of memory but nothing much observed using a 16 GB M1 iMac. Temp is constant 37C/38C during the time I used a T7 SSD connected.

 

[Minghold]

Is this on an old intel 8GB Mac as you mention High Sierra with CCC5?

I've had this weird memory-consumption bug occur with CCC4 and CCC5, and with El Cap, High Sierra, and Mojave systems. (The only way I've been able to address it is, upon occurrence, use GetBackupPro3 to clone the same boot partition to the same target (which picks up some lingering stray invisible files that are apparently important to whatever machine configuration is in question), restarting-to-target (whereupon I often notice that GBP3 also often fails at its "one job" by leaving generic document icons), then clone as before a third time with CCC, after which everything finally works. Usually.

And, in keeping with my pet conspiracy theory that these various boot-drive backup utilites are being muscled to deliver sub-par or AWOL performance to machines that Apple wishes to forcibly obsolesce, CCC6 dropped the ability to clone HFS+ boot volumes. WTF would they remove that, you'd reasonably ask.

 

[dai-leung]

It was your comment about trying to decide to exclude hidden /library hierarchy without knowing its importance that I questioned. I only want it to work OK in the end.

The User Level Library Folder on Mac contains multiple system files that store settings, preferences and other data for various Apps and Programs on the Mac.

I had been thinking what you said. It seems to me that the correct way to restore to an older snapshot but keep the current files is not to exclude the “User Level Library Folder”. The reason is exactly what you said, “The User Level Library Folder on Mac contains multiple system files that store settings, preferences and other data for various Apps and Programs on the Mac.” The older snapshot’s apps may have a different version, thus should use its own “User Level Library Folder”.

Thus when using CCC to restore from an older snapshot but keep the current user files, after hitting “restore” on the desired older snapshot, go to task filter, exclude /users folder, but within /users folder unselect the “User Level Library Folder”, that is do not exclude this folder from restore.

This is equivalent of having an older CCC backups, which we know is working flawlessly, but suddenly, some of the Mac’s apps are not working correctly, but all the user’s files are fine. Thus, we want to restore to the older backup, but replace its user’s files with the current user’s files.There is no need to consider the files that had been created or modified or new apps that were installed from the time of the older backup to present.

 

[dai-leung]

Turning safetynet into another feature?

I was doing some folder to folder copying experiments and noticed that if the safetynet is turned on, on the destination, if a file is replaced, a safetynet folder will be created and the replaced file will be placed under a folder marked with date and time. However, when backing up the data volume to the CCC backup drive and when safety is turned on, it does not work that way. Insaread, CCC takes a snapshot of the destination drive and the above mentioned folder level safetynet to store replaced files disappeared.

In CCC7, I understand that CCC is trying to discourage the use of safetynet by encouraging the backup drive to be “exclusivley” used for CCC backup thus making safetynet unnecessary. Perhaps, the safetynet could turn into providing a different feature. If turning on safetynet can now provide a folder level safetynet for replaced files in /users instead of taking a snapshot of the destination, it may be an interesting optional feature. This feature can archive all the replaced files under the same folder as opposed to finding the replaced files in a snapshot.

 

[Ben J.]

About using CCC to sync a local folder and a folder on the internet.

I do it with folders on my Google Drive. I have installed Googledrive helper and it shows as a menu bar item. It works very similar to iCloud drive, in that it stores a copy of its contents in a 'hidden' folder in your Library folder. Both with icloud drive and Google drive, you can delete its content at any time to recover some disk space by right-clicking and selecting remove download, the cloud storage will not be affected, and anytime you make changes, this library folder will reflect the new state of files/folders in the cloud.

So, I can create a task in CCC to sync a folder on my HD with a folder on my Google drive by selecting as 'destination' the folder or subfolder in:
Users/benj/Library/CloudStorage/GoogleDrive-benj@gmail.com/My disk/foldername on my HD.

After having run the task, Google drive helper will immediately update the contents in Google drive in the cloud. I might remove the download after that - the cloud folder will not be affected.

So, I have a set of folders and sub folders on my mac, that I can sync with folders on Google drive by using CCC. I'm sure iCloud drive can be used in a very similar way.

 

[Ben J.]

About creating a bootable backup.

I've had my main drive backed up to a bootable disk since I started using CCC a long time ago. One very big advantage with that is that it lets you restore your disk to a previous state by booting from it. It's not possible to restore a disk when you're booted from it. Also, running CCC on the backup drive, it will only restore the modified files, so it's done in seconds. So, say you install some software that completely messes up your mac, you simply boot from the backup disk, restore your main disk to a snapshot just before the incident, reboot from your restored disk, and everything is the way it was - in a minute or two.

It's been a while now, but I'm pretty sure I've used three different ways of creating the bootable backup disk:
1. Using the 'Legacy bootable installer' function in CCC.
2. Using the regular macOS installer to create a new macOS installation on the volume, then selecting 'Macintosh - Data' as the destination for the CCC backup task.
3. Using the regular macOS installer to create a new macOS installation on a volume already containing CCC backup(s)/snapshots of the 'Macintosh - Data' volume. It's smart enough to create the volume group and keep the existing Data volume.

This is all using macOS up to Ventura 13.6 and CCC 6.
IHTH.

 

[dai-leung]

say you install some software that completely messes up your mac, you simply boot from the backup disk, restore your main disk to a snapshot just before the incident, reboot from your restored disk, and everything is the way it was

Your post is above my level so I am trying to digest and learned. If above is the desired result, what is the different if I simply use the CCC backup non bootable volume, and restored from the same snapshot， then re-start the Mac?

2. Using the regular macOS installer to create a new macOS installation on the volume, then selecting 'Macintosh - Data' as the destination for the CCC backup task.
3. Using the regular macOS installer to create a new macOS installation on the a volume already containing CCC backup(s)/snapshots of the 'Macintosh - Data' volume. It's smart enough to create the volume group and keep the existing Data volume.

Don’t follow how to do these two, possible to supply more details?