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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I feel like Apple is working really hard at trying to get their customers to hate them. Price / Value is diminishing.

More like shareholders get 19, customers get 1. I believe Apple has fallen completely in love with "another quarter of record revenue & profit" and that is put above all else. It shows in so many ways, particularly in all of the nickel & diming. These new M3 Macs look incredible and then you dig in and see cost-saving moves like reducing memory bandwidth (some M3 configs are BELOW M1), reducing performance cores, etc... and shenanigans like spinning how one can now "save $100" on an entry-level MB by spending $300 more.

Give this a watch and keep your mind focused on cost-cutting/profit-maximizing above all else. How many of these are "subtractions" for customers to make more for shareholders? How much is marketing trickery implying at least the same as before but is actually less than M2... and sometimes M1?


Through that "maximize shareholder value" lens from a consumer- not shareholder- perspective, a lot of those points are aggravating. Of course, if one is more shareholder and assume most will buy anyway, hooray for Apple for fattening those margins in tricky ways.

A true consumer should reasonably expect M3 > M2 > M1 > Last Intel in ALL ways. Instead, we're getting shenanigans that make M3 < M1 in select ways... not because it was Apple's only option... but because they CHOSE to build it this way. Why step back from established gains in prior generations? 💰💰💰

Yes, as a for-profit, public company, maximizing shareholder ROI is an obligation... but they would be farrrrrrrr from the first to make that paramount above everything and burn the source of those profits goodwill down to nill. What typically happens is that customers reach their 'enough is enough' breaking point and vote with their wallets as a group. Until then, happy shareholders = happy superiors = bonuses earned = accolades/promotions/etc.

If some of us whine- even loudly- but then pay up anyway, we are simply stoking the very same fire. If we don't like it, we have to stop buying... and many others need to do the same for any corporate Goliath to take notice. Only through painful discovery in revenue downturns can management wake up to the concept that a better balance between shareholder value and customer satisfaction needs to be struck. Consumers- not shareholders- are where 100% of that "record" money is sourced. Delight consumers or they MAY finally choose to vote with their wallets. There is not an endless supply of accumulated goodwill from the "good old days." Halos can tarnish if what makes them shine is not maintained.

Else, those who defend that all is ideal and practically perfect in every way are basically right with each confirmation of "another quarter of record revenue & profit." Loudly whining followed by readily buying does not a customer value gain make.
 
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hagar

macrumors 68000
Jan 19, 2008
1,999
5,040
‘Amateurs’ only need one monitor
‘Pros’ can use two.
That’s a bit harsh. But you do have a point. Most non-pro people don’t even use an external display. If you really need two displays, you most likely also benefit from the Pro or Max power. So it does make sense.
 
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FasterQuieter

macrumors 6502a
Feb 21, 2008
792
1,858
There is so much made of this every time a base M chip is released. Personally, I couldn't care less. I only have 2 eyes after all. How many monitors could I need? For a period years ago I used 2. It was annoying moving windows between screens etc. So instead I bought one massive monitor. That works way better. Also, Spaces on Mac OS basically solved the issue. The 2-finger swipe on my Magic Mouse is easier than turning my head. I can't imaging sitting with 3 or 4 monitors in front of me like I'm NASA or something.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,963
25,958
What's the issue?

Need to drive 3 or 4 external 6K displays? --> Choose the M3 Max option and pay more money.

Need to drive 2 external 6K displays? --> Choose the M3 Pro option and pay less money than the M3 Max option.

Need to drive 1 or 0 external 6K displays? -->> Choose the M3 chip and save a lot of money.


With all the above whining, apparently everyone here needs to drive 3 or 4 external 6K displays. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Don't force people to pay a lot more money when they only need to drive 1 or 0 external 6K displays.

Thankfully, Apple provides options. Simply purchase what you need. Apparently choice is bad from reading the comments up above.
 

Elusi

macrumors regular
Oct 26, 2023
175
369
My work has completely switched out to having a single monitor at every desk. You can get a second but we also pretty much have blanket approval for that at higher end Macbooks. I, honestly, will never go back to a dual-display setup at my home office as ultrawide monitors are just better.
I have used both, being a once enthusiastic buyer of the original 34" LG ultrawide and also from EIZO got sent the admittedly badass current ultrawide monitor to try, and would say that your statement might be true for you but is not objective. I have returned to and will probably always prefer dual monitors.

For example: the Spaces-functionality in MacOS becomes half as useful. You just have one space at a time and have to switch out all your content at the same time always.

That's not to say that I don't understand that IT departments have to adjust policies due to current tech. I just wouldn't state it as "things are now better". The real answer is: "Apple released this product so we had to adjust to the situation".
 

gatorvet96

macrumors regular
Apr 21, 2016
232
650
Talking to some IT folks it seems pretty common that people had 2018 to 2020 Intel airs that while at work they docked to dual screen workstation setups. It used to work, and people enjoyed their small laptops.

Then all of a sudden the latest stuff can’t do it anymore. And there is no good selling point for getting everyone fat and expensive macbook pros other than the display controller. Makes Tim happy but I understand that there’s a consumer PoV that is pissed off.
So they should cater to the 1% of entry level iMac uses that would do that? I am also not talking about notebooks. Though I do feel the same about entry level Macbook Airs.
 

Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
300
272
Sadly Apple are coming in for criticism over multiple monitor restrictions when its the user's incorrect choice that more often limits customers much more than how many monitors a device can run.

To be quite frank, a lot of the multiple monitory frenzy is born out of films depicting multiple monitors and ego drive rather than real needs driven, but as ever there are exceptions, in which case you base your purchaser on that.

If you really need multiple monitors ask yourself whether its a real need or a perceived need.

Then you purchase according to your needs, not according to how many monitors a device may or may not support.

Too much ego involved these days and too much keeping up with what is perceived to be needed rather than what is really necessary for the job in hand.

Whilst many reports suggest multiple monitors improve productivity, they are have a definable conflict of interest, and very rarely to they consider energy and performance considerations of the computer driving the monitors.

A decent article demonstrates the performance deterioration and energy considerations that few other reports even comment on:
 
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antiprotest

macrumors 601
Apr 19, 2010
4,051
14,280
This is truly pathetic. But the Apple defenders will tell you that this amazing, it is by design, and it is iconic.
Apple Defenders have been comparatively silent these two weeks as news of bugs, price increases, disappointing product rollouts surface one after another.

But I am sure they will be back after they manage to work around the bugs and issues on their own Apple devices and re-budget for their Apple services.

Defenders assemble!
 

coachgq

macrumors 6502a
Jun 16, 2009
932
1,855
m2 pro mac mini for the win. Before my mac mini i had an i5 21.5 imac for 11 years. I plan to get this much out of my mac mini. 16gbs ram and external drives should keep me going for a while.
 

ikramerica

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2009
1,560
1,851
The thing that is so absolutely stupid about this is that with an external display hooked up, you can still connect your iPad and run Sidecar on it, connecting it as a 2nd display. That absolutely is more taxing on CPU/GPU than a real 2nd display. This is just the worst kind of Apple BS. I'm an Apple fanboy, but it's things like this that make me want to leave the ecosystem.
But all those other solutions slow things down, use more resources, and that display has limitations on what they display well.

2 total displays for the base M chips is what Apple will allow based on the performance level they want to advertise.
 
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Velli

macrumors 6502a
Feb 1, 2013
871
1,132
This is the one spec on these machines that I’m not going to defend. Weird that they use this limitation to upsell from small Pro to large Pro, instead of having it as a differentiator going from Air to Pro.
 
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fenderbass146

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,460
2,557
Northwest Indiana
‘Amateurs’ only need one monitor
‘Pros’ can use two.
not even true...the new entry level "pro 14" only does one monitor...I'd jump all over that laptop if it had two. I don't need power. I just do IT and networking, but dual external monitors is a requirement. Dual monitors with a docking station is pretty common practice in the business world...and I mean like regular office work, not crazy design stuff. It's pathetic my 2012 Macbook could do dual montiors but not this.
 

psxp

macrumors 6502
Jan 8, 2008
383
449
I wonder if this is a technical or an artificial limitation.
Definitely Apple limiting capabilities.

And here I was hoping to get a M3 15" Air when they are eventually released as I was "sure" they would be supporting more than 1 external monitor.

Boooo Apple..
 
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Trey M

macrumors 6502a
Jul 25, 2011
954
323
USA
It is crazy how little this problem has been talked about through 3 generations now of M-series chips. A ton of people use their Macbook Pros as a pseudo desktop with Thunderbolt docks and the like. I shouldn't have to spend like $3K+ to have 2 144Hz 4K displays. Sometimes their official support specs are understated, so hoping that's the case here, but I'm not aware of any M2 series chip that was able to power 2 4K 144Hz monitors via a single TB stream. /r
 

Velli

macrumors 6502a
Feb 1, 2013
871
1,132
You mean three monitors. Because the M1, M2 and M3 base chips are all capable of running two. In the case of laptops, or iMacs, the built-in display counts as one and then you can run one additional. In the case of the Mini, you can plug it two total.

Here in the echo chamber of this forum you'd think every Mac user out there is looking to connect three external displays. I strongly suspect most people don't care and at most are going to run one bigger display -- and probably not even that.
In my office, 2/3 of people run two 27” displays. I guess you can argue that they should all get large curved displays instead to get around this, but Apple doesn’t sell that product.
 

platinumaqua

macrumors regular
Oct 11, 2021
200
273
What is the technical limitation why the base M chips can’t output to two external displays with internal display off/ in clamshell mode? I remember reading about it but can’t find it anymore
 

Velli

macrumors 6502a
Feb 1, 2013
871
1,132
Who is or wants to buy an entry level iMac to drive more than 2 monitors (the iMac and a second)? Really. This argument is not real-world in the slightest. The general public that buy these base models are not likely even connecting to one external monitor, let alone more than that. Most that use more than 2 monitors are professionals and will buy the Pro or Max M3 anyway. Some people just LOVE to complain.
For iMac, I agree. Even Macbook Air it is defendable. For the entry MBP that is a likely enterprise device, not being able to connect to two large desktop screens with lid closed is plain weird.
 

cheesygrin

macrumors regular
Sep 1, 2008
116
229
Wait, the M2 Pro supports three external displays, but the M3 Pro only supports two? That’s quite a significant downgrade, and limits the usefulness of the next gen Mac mini for those of us with three monitors. Unless they offer a Mac mini with M3 Max, but then might as well get a Mac Studio…

Apple upselling at its worst.
 

JohannesO

macrumors regular
Jul 28, 2022
153
155
Bildschirmfoto 2023-11-02 um 17.21.36.png


Mac Mini M2 PRO Simultaneously supports up to THREE displays:

  • Up to three displays: Two displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz over HDMI
  • Up to two displays: One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
  • One display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI
Thunderbolt 4 digital video output
  • Support for native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
HDMI display video output
  • Support for one display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at 240Hz
 

Elusi

macrumors regular
Oct 26, 2023
175
369
So they should cater to the 1% of entry level iMac uses that would do that? I am also not talking about notebooks. Though I do feel the same about entry level Macbook Airs.
I would agree with you that the iMac probably sees this as the least of its problems. I don't see many iMac-owners complaining about this in the first place, though. It just happens to have the same chip as the products where this is an issue.
 
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