MKBHD on Vision Pro

[Rogifan]

Todd Anglin (@toddanglin) on Threads

Resonates. MKBHD on Vision Pro: “My trajectory of usage. When I first picked it up, I used it every day, multiple times per day…then I would use it a little bit less everyday. Now I don’t use it everyday. There’s just not that many apps…right now, there’s not a lot [I can do].”

www.threads.net

What apps or functionality are people hoping/expecting to come to Vision Pro that will make them want to use it on a regular basis?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Same trajectory as basically every other VR headset for all but hardcore sim gamers or those with some other specific use case

(I know AVP fans don't want to hear it -- but this was very predictable)

To keep an AVP "around" for the occasional entertainment usage, it needs to get under $1k, and even then I think we are still talking about a toy for rich people

 

[fs454]

I'm always a bit confused when the argument is "there's just not that many apps" - it's such an unimaginative perspective. I'm getting the same use out of this as I am my Mac but with more flexibility in some areas. This with a keyboard is very productive at a desk and is a really cool way to do general computing stuff. I've got my bank apps in here, my home security stuff in here, my work collab stuff in here, Keynote works great to work on decks in here. I'm watching more movies and TV than I've ever watched because of this thing, on massive beautiful screens that are the size of my entire living room or bedroom ceiling. I'm spending hours on FaceTime with my other buddies and colleagues who have these, trading out sharing what we're seeing through our eyes via view sharing, brainstorming use cases, watching my buddy edit via his eyes on his Mac with virtual display, watching him be able to physically point at the timeline or video frame to help illustrate something, doing proof of concept commercial video shoot blocking by placing 3D objects with beautifulthings.xyz. Doing laundry, doing the dishes, cooking up some eggs and bacon, all while being able to watch a persistent piece of content in my peripheral as I do so. Playing battleship with a buddy in Game Room with our personas, and gawking at detail of the board and explosions when the missiles hit. Relaxing in the environments, or shutting out a distracting real-world to focus in on writing something or whatever you may be working on.

This thing is a really compelling computer in its own right, with a unique strength of being able to work well outside a plastic (or metal if you spring for $1500 Apple monitors) rectangle sitting on your desk. It's a new way to do everything, it sparks creativity, makes working fun again, and opens up the possibilities of what you can do in an unconventional space. I can sit on my deck, look out at the forest and have more real estate than just a tiny laptop rectangle.

"THERES NO APPS, FEED ME MORE STUFF TO DO" is a take I'd expect from a random YouTube comment, not MKBHD. But I suppose he's a busy guy and doesn't have time to slow down and appreciate this for more than the whiz-bang front-end hype experiences that may or may not exist today. More games and stuff would be nice and are coming, but there's plenty going on right now.


And for the "BUT I CAN DO THIS ON MY PHONE/TABLET/LAPTOP" people - generally being able to watch content or interact with something without having to hold a weighty metal rectangle up in my hands, whether it be in bed, in the kitchen, at my desk, on the couch, on a plane, wherever - is an amazing quality of life upgrade that feels like you just gained an extra hand.

 

[zakarhino]

Same trajectory as basically every other VR headset for all but hardcore sim gamers or those with some other specific use case

(I know AVP fans don't want to hear it -- but this was very predictable)

To keep an AVP "around" for the occasional entertainment usage, it needs to get under $1k, and even then I think we are still talking about a toy for rich people

That and it needs to be 10x more comfortable, not just weight wise but also FOV. Basically it has to reach a point where you can forget you're wearing a headset. Watching movies in the dark Mount Hood environment is awesome but the tradeoffs are not worth it when the upcoming OLED iPads will provide a similar HDR experience.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Watching movies in the dark Mount Hood environment is awesome but the tradeoffs are not worth it when the upcoming OLED iPads will provide a similar HDR experience.

...or the 77" OLED TV you could get for 50-80% the price of AVP

 

[fs454]

That and it needs to be 10x more comfortable, not just weight wise but also FOV. Basically it has to reach a point where you can forget you're wearing a headset. Watching movies in the dark Mount Hood environment is awesome but the tradeoffs are not worth it when the upcoming OLED iPads will provide a similar HDR experience.

Do you have an AVP? There is no comparison to a little 11 inch 4:3 display with two thirds of the display being black bars for a 2.35 aspect movie held in your hand compared to something that effectively convinces your brain you're sitting in a movie theater. I get there's glare, but I don't know how these experiences are even remotely comparable.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Do you have an AVP? There is no comparison to a little 11 inch 4:3 display with two thirds of the display being black bars for a 2.35 aspect movie held in your hand compared to something that effectively convinces your brain you're sitting in a movie theater. I get there's glare, but I don't know how these experiences are even remotely comparable.

That doesn't negate his comment about comfort, especially if talking about wearing AVP for the length of a movie

 

[fs454]

...or the 77" OLED TV you could get for 50-80% the price of AVP

I'll take a little glare to be able to bring an arguably comparable OLED display to any position in my home, or on a plane, or on my ceiling in bed, at any size and any native aspect ratio without black bars. A big ugly 45-pound plastic rectangle that's stuck in one particular place for its entire lifespan is objectively less useful than one that can be brought anywhere and takes up zero space.

 

[fs454]

That doesn't negate his comment about comfort, especially if talking about wearing AVP for the length of a movie

I have zero issues with comfort after finding the right light seal and realizing how the Solo Knit is supposed to be used to facilitate even contact across the entire cushion. The three others I regularly work alongside who have these feel the same. 2 hours is nothing.

 

[Night Spring]

"THERES NO APPS, FEED ME MORE STUFF TO DO" is a take I'd expect from a random YouTube comment, not MKBHD.

I think there's two basic outlooks toward the VP. One is seeing It as something that's supposed to provide new experiences made possible by VR/AR technology. The other is seeing it as just another way to do regular computing tasks, only a little bit more conveniently or more pleasantly. The first group is going to keep waiting for more apps and content, while the second group chugs along actually using the VP.

 

[fs454]

I think there's two basic outlooks toward the VP. One is seeing It as something that's supposed to provide new experiences made possible by VR/AR technology. The other is seeing it as just another way to do regular computing tasks, only a little bit more conveniently or more pleasantly. The first group is going to keep waiting for more apps and content, while the second group chugs along actually using the VP.

Yeah - to me it's like the MacBook / iPad Pro of the future. Compelling use cases can be boring. I'm not riding on the back of Mickey Mouse as I fly on a magic carpet through a fully rendered 3D Disney World, but I'd much rather never touch an iPad again and have this fill that niche and then some. It's a secondary computing device that, for the first time, actually feels like carrying for me. iPhone for pocket always-available computing, Mac for heavy duty video work and advanced workflows, Vision Pro for everything else - casual emails, casual browsing, movies and TV, massive unlimited displays/having a vast workspace while traveling for hotels, planes, etc. It's a well rounded trio whereas to me the iPad always felt redundant and pointless, and annoying to hold. Being able to bust out of the confines of a 14 or 16 inch rectangle on demand with nothing but what's in my backpack is a huge boon for me, and I haven't even traveled with it yet.

The takes on twitter about how we're no longer talking about AVP, and how "they told you so" and that it "was" such a fad product are wild to me. Do we do this with Macs, iPads? Or do we digest the launch hype and just settle into using the devices without having to parade around YouTube and social media constantly about it?

 

[tomtad]

It’s dead

 

[tornadowrangler]

And for the "BUT I CAN DO THIS ON MY PHONE/TABLET/LAPTOP" people - generally being able to watch content or interact with something without having to hold a weighty metal rectangle up in my hands, whether it be in bed, in the kitchen, at my desk, on the couch, on a plane, wherever - is an amazing quality of life upgrade that feels like you just gained an extra hand.

Uh, I don't normally hold my TV or computer up in my hands.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Uh, I don't normally hold my TV or computer up in my hands.

Now I know why my back is sore!

I gotta stop holding up my plasma TV for the entire movie, and instead use the stand!

 

[Lift Bar]

What apps or functionality are people hoping/expecting to come to Vision Pro that will make them want to use it on a regular basis?

Vision Pro might have potential for gaming and sim racing, but Apple's disinterest in gaming means we're unlikely to see any significant game development for it.

Lots of speculation of using it for immersive sports experiences, but that's a gimmick at best. Being virtually courtside or in a dugout without any real interaction is a hollow experience, and the novelty will wear off quickly.

AVP is shaping up to be nothing more than a gadget for consuming niche content, and even then I doubt there will be enough of a market to justify significant artistic investment. (although I'm certain James Cameron will come up with something sort of fun worthy of a few hours of your time.)

Strapping screens to your face is a bizarre concept. Most people still recognize that. Apple Vision Pro is far from becoming a mainstream device.

 

[Crow_Servo]

I'm always a bit confused when the argument is "there's just not that many apps" - it's such an unimaginative perspective. I'm getting the same use out of this as I am my Mac but with more flexibility in some areas. This with a keyboard is very productive at a desk and is a really cool way to do general computing stuff. I've got my bank apps in here, my home security stuff in here, my work collab stuff in here, Keynote works great to work on decks in here. I'm watching more movies and TV than I've ever watched because of this thing, on massive beautiful screens that are the size of my entire living room or bedroom ceiling. I'm spending hours on FaceTime with my other buddies and colleagues who have these, trading out sharing what we're seeing through our eyes via view sharing, brainstorming use cases, watching my buddy edit via his eyes on his Mac with virtual display, watching him be able to physically point at the timeline or video frame to help illustrate something, doing proof of concept commercial video shoot blocking by placing 3D objects with beautifulthings.xyz. Doing laundry, doing the dishes, cooking up some eggs and bacon, all while being able to watch a persistent piece of content in my peripheral as I do so. Playing battleship with a buddy in Game Room with our personas, and gawking at detail of the board and explosions when the missiles hit. Relaxing in the environments, or shutting out a distracting real-world to focus in on writing something or whatever you may be working on.

This thing is a really compelling computer in its own right, with a unique strength of being able to work well outside a plastic (or metal if you spring for $1500 Apple monitors) rectangle sitting on your desk. It's a new way to do everything, it sparks creativity, makes working fun again, and opens up the possibilities of what you can do in an unconventional space. I can sit on my deck, look out at the forest and have more real estate than just a tiny laptop rectangle.

"THERES NO APPS, FEED ME MORE STUFF TO DO" is a take I'd expect from a random YouTube comment, not MKBHD. But I suppose he's a busy guy and doesn't have time to slow down and appreciate this for more than the whiz-bang front-end hype experiences that may or may not exist today. More games and stuff would be nice and are coming, but there's plenty going on right now.


And for the "BUT I CAN DO THIS ON MY PHONE/TABLET/LAPTOP" people - generally being able to watch content or interact with something without having to hold a weighty metal rectangle up in my hands, whether it be in bed, in the kitchen, at my desk, on the couch, on a plane, wherever - is an amazing quality of life upgrade that feels like you just gained an extra hand.

That’s amazing that you have found so many ways to use it and are sticking with it. I have a very strong feeling that most people won’t use it anywhere near the degree you are, since it’s not quite there yet when it comes to being lightweight enough, breathable (so you’re not sweating in it) or adopted by enough other people in our lives to make it something we can share the experience with. You should probably contact Apple so they can think about including you in one of their commercials. It’s definitely encouraging, and points towards a possible bright future for the device.

 

[zakarhino]

Do you have an AVP? There is no comparison to a little 11 inch 4:3 display with two thirds of the display being black bars for a 2.35 aspect movie held in your hand compared to something that effectively convinces your brain you're sitting in a movie theater. I get there's glare, but I don't know how these experiences are even remotely comparable.

I had one. Not anymore. The glare (absolutely terrible), FOV, weight, and general discomfort (including the inability to easily drink from a glass) all contributed to a net negative experience with AVP. Not to mention eye issues which I made an entire thread about, that issue alone trumped everything else and I promised myself I would never wear AVP gen 1 again because of it.

What you describe as 'convincing your brain you're in a movie theater' never clicked with me because for 95% of the time I was wearing the device my brain was screaming "you're wearing a headset" and that ruined the illusion for me. Even entering my favorite AVP experience (the 100 ft movie screen hovering above the lake in the Mt Hood environment, absolutely gorgeous) never felt like I was actually there, it always felt like I was watching a stereoscopic OLED screen just a few feet in front of me. I don't recall a single time with AVP that I actually felt like I was having an out of body experience like I was actually there.

Theoretically, in the best case scenario, I agree there's no comparison. But we're not in the best case scenario, that comes a few generations from now, so an OLED iPad is absolutely worth comparing against for my preferences. That's why AVP frustrates me, I can envision what the experience should be like but gen 1 never let me truly trick myself into believing the experience.

I hope we get there quicker than I anticipate. For now I have a renewed love for iPad.

 

[zakarhino]

That doesn't negate his comment about comfort, especially if talking about wearing AVP for the length of a movie

If you gave me an IMAX theater to myself but I had to sit on a bed of needles the whole time and watch the screen through a pair of foggy ski goggles, I'll take the 13" OLED iPad lol. Theoretically there is no comparison but the word "theoretically" tells all because AVP Gen 1 does not hit the spot for me no matter how impressive the micro OLED is.

 

[Night Spring]

to me the iPad always felt redundant and pointless, and annoying to hold. Being able to bust out of the confines of a 14 or 16 inch rectangle on demand with nothing but what's in my backpack is a huge boon for me, and I haven't even traveled with it yet.

I actually love the iPad. I pick it up first thing in the morning and don't put it down unless I'm eating, leave the house, or sit down at my computer to do the few computing tasks I can't do on the iPad. Most of my forum postings are typed from my iPad, including this one. But I do often wish for a larger screen, and the ability to have multiple full-size app windows open at once. The VP should solve that, but it does strike me as less easy to carry with me than an iPad. The iPad fits in any bag that's designed to carry business documents, whereas the VP needs its own special carrying case. That's one of the things preventing me from definitive declaring that VP will completely replace the iPad.

 

[borka105]

I have zero issues with comfort after finding the right light seal and realizing how the Solo Knit is supposed to be used to facilitate even contact across the entire cushion. The three others I regularly work alongside who have these feel the same. 2 hours is nothing.

What’s your light seal number that makes the AVP comfortable on your face? I can’t get there even after 4 different seals.

 

[257Loner]

Of course Marques Brownlee doesn't use his AVP everyday. He's a human, not a robot. Did you all know once upon a time people didn't have the Internet, cell phones, and Internet cell phones? No one needs an AVP in their life. You survived before the AVP was sold.

 

[Polinsky]

Of course Marques Brownlee doesn't use his AVP everyday. He's a human, not a robot. Did you all know once upon a time people didn't have the Internet, cell phones, and Internet cell phones? No one needs an AVP in their life. You survived before the AVP was sold.

This argument is absurd. It can be applied to almost anything. We need air to breathe, food, water, and insulation from cold weather. This is all our ancestors had for millennia. Beyond that. there is NOTHING you must have in your life!

 

[Rogifan]

Vision Pro might have potential for gaming and sim racing, but Apple's disinterest in gaming means we're unlikely to see any significant game development for it.

Lots of speculation of using it for immersive sports experiences, but that's a gimmick at best. Being virtually courtside or in a dugout without any real interaction is a hollow experience, and the novelty will wear off quickly.

AVP is shaping up to be nothing more than a gadget for consuming niche content, and even then I doubt there will be enough of a market to justify significant artistic investment. (although I'm certain James Cameron will come up with something sort of fun worthy of a few hours of your time.)

Strapping screens to your face is a bizarre concept. Most people still recognize that. Apple Vision Pro is far from becoming a mainstream device.

Yeah I can’t get around the fact that you have big, heavy goggles strapped to your face. There are some pro-Apple analysts who are trying to will this into being the future of computing but I don’t see it. No matter how cool the tech is you’re still strapping something to your face. For those who are fine with that, have at it. Enjoy it. But I just don’t see it ever becoming mainstream. I think Vision Pro will always be a niche product, kind of like the Mac Pro.

 

[erikkfi]

To keep an AVP "around" for the occasional entertainment usage, it needs to get under $1k, and even then I think we are still talking about a toy for rich people

The optimist of the group. My PSVR2 cost $500 and I haven't touched it in eight months.

 

[jonblatho]

And for the "BUT I CAN DO THIS ON MY PHONE/TABLET/LAPTOP" people - generally being able to watch content or interact with something without having to hold a weighty metal rectangle up in my hands, whether it be in bed, in the kitchen, at my desk, on the couch, on a plane, wherever - is an amazing quality of life upgrade that feels like you just gained an extra hand.

Yeah, I’d much rather strap the weighty metal rectangle to my face. Never mind that your newly free hands become the input device instead of requiring you to directly manipulate a physical object in order to interact with your device. As a bit of a fidgeter, this was frustrating to me even during my Vision Pro demo at the Apple Store — your hands become an always-on live input device.