NSA Was Able to Capture Live Data From Compromised iPhones in 2008, Including Live Camera, GPS, and More

[aloshka]

The argument that only people engaged in wrongdoing should worry about the government seeing your data is unfortunately becoming less and less the case. In just the last year, we have seen many examples of abuse:
1) The US government targeting people that lean some particular way politically... through the IRS and otherwise
2) Journalist that are critical of the government having many mysterious goings on with their online account (just read an article today about a government employee whistle blower having four or five years of his email account, which contained evidence of government abuse, accessed and destroyed).
3) The government obtaining dirt on people that are critical of it, or engaged in activitism they don't like (dirt as in not being illegal, but embarrassing).

It seems lately the government here has no qualms about crossing any lines.

Unfortunately this is true. What really bugs me, however, is that the NSA is so covert that the rest of the world knows about it before the US. Which means they are targeting Americans not he rest of the world. But Americans feel so safe, that no one will do anything about it until it hits them. Then they will post in Facebook that the government sucks. That's about as far reaching as Americans will get...Facebook posts.

That's why I think the government here will keep pushing to see how much it can get away with. At this point, I think anything. Heck, they can come arrest you with no trial, no explanation because of "national security".

Scary and starting to remind me of Russia... People vote against someone and he becomes the president anyway (not implying Obama, I like him, just stating that the people don't matter anymore).

 

[macduke]

This is only going to hurt the U.S. economy in the long run. The internet economy is nothing without trust. The rest of the world will innovate and seal us off like a plague. We aren't always going to be top dog when it comes to technology. I'd bail on using U.S. Internet companies too except that I'm in the U.S., so I'm screwed either way. Without privacy we might as well be animals in a zoo. The government will feed us, give us health care, watch our every move. We only need to hand over our soul and basic right to freedom.

The majority of people won't complain until their TV goes out, and even then they'll be too obese to do anything about it. The control is slowly tightening. The government can get away with anything when they control access to basic necessities. It is in man's nature to be corrupt and seek power. Why are we slowly tearing down the limitations our forefathers put on the greed of man? We might as well quarter soldiers in every household to watch those who say they aren't doing anything wrong and declare a supreme king to rule us from on high. History repeats itself if we don't pay attention to it. Great empires are always falling. The U.S. is not immune. What makes us special in the history of the world is our freedom and if we let that erode away into nothing then we fail and the great American experiment will come to a tragic end.

 

[AnalyzeThis]

In the professional world I consider the chief goal of keeping data secure is to keep it secure from competitors who may want to get a leg up, and from hackers who would want to just want to see the world burn because its fun.

I am always fascinated with meaning of "professional world" in MacRumors context. It seems on this forum possessing Macbook Pro or Mac Pro is pretty much passing grade for the qualification. So much pride over such simple skills of operating computer or software. Kinda like when bad dancer blames the dancing floor. Getting loaded "pro" toy, sure will make owner the "pro" one. LOL! LOL!...

 

[longofest]

The argument that only people engaged in wrongdoing should worry about the government seeing your data is unfortunately becoming less and less the case. In just the last year, we have seen many examples of abuse:
1) The US government targeting people that lean some particular way politically... through the IRS and otherwise
2) Journalist that are critical of the government having many mysterious goings on with their online account (just read an article today about a government employee whistle blower having four or five years of his email account, which contained evidence of government abuse, accessed and destroyed).
3) The government obtaining dirt on people that are critical of it, or engaged in activitism they don't like (dirt as in not being illegal, but embarrassing).

It seems lately the government here has no qualms about crossing any lines.

More or less all of those are dealing with opinions of people. I was specifically talking about in a professional environment as the original poster seemed to imply as he was removing his business from cloud providers (I automatically think Amazon S3, EC2, Rackspace, Microsoft Azure).

I could have been mistaken and if the OP was referring to opinions and views stored in places like dropbox or some other more data-centric site like that, then my point is less applicable. I'm really coming from a business point of view, not a personal point of view, and trying to show that business shouldn't need to worry too much about this kind of stuff unless I suppose they are in the journalistic business.

 

[Tknull]

Unfortunately this is true. What really bugs me, however, is that the NSA is so covert that the rest of the world knows about it before the US. Which means they are targeting Americans not he rest of the world. But Americans feel so safe, that no one will do anything about it until it hits them. Then they will post in Facebook that the government sucks. That's about as far reaching as Americans will get...Facebook posts.

That's why I think the government here will keep pushing to see how much it can get away with. At this point, I think anything. Heck, they can come arrest you with no trial, no explanation because of "national security".

Scary and starting to remind me of Russia... People vote against someone and he becomes the president anyway (not implying Obama, I like him, just stating that the people don't matter anymore).

Agree 100%. So many crazy stories coming out, and noone that I know gives a crap at all. Most people don't seem to. And any politician that tries to talk about it is brushed off as being some partisan zealot.

 

[scoobydoo99]

that whole 4th amendment obsession is so weird to me like isnt it dated by now. stuff that made a bit of sense back then shouldnt be the holy grail that can never be wrong now in 2013/14

Dated? After less than 250 years? The Roman Empire lasted over 2000 years. Will the American Empire last that long?

What exactly is it about "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..." that you think is "dated"?

It was actually incredibly well-written to apply just as precisely today as it did then.

 

[longofest]

I am always fascinated with meaning of "professional world" in MacRumors context. It seems on this forum possessing Macbook Pro or Mac Pro is pretty much passing grade for the qualification. So much pride over such simple skills of operating computer or software. Kinda like when bad dancer complaining over dancing floor. Getting loaded "pro" toy, sure will make you the one. LOL! LOL!...

Professional world = business world to me. Really, being paid to do something, and making a living.

 

[69650]

1) secure from whom? if you're worried that the US government is going to see your data, then I guess you'd have something to worry about, but I'm not sure why one would be worried about that in the professional world unless they were into wrongdoing. In the professional world I consider the chief goal of keeping data secure is to keep it secure from competitors who may want to get a leg up, and from hackers who would want to just want to see the world burn because its fun. There are a few others reasons of course including when dealing with PII data but those are the top threats IMO. The only time I'd be worried about a government spying on me is when the government is communist or like because they could be spying in order to pass competitive secrets to state-sanctioned corporations in order to give competitive advantages which goes back to the competitive reasons.

2) Do you really think a UK based company or any other country really is going to do anything less? US got caught this time... doesn't mean others don't do it.

Doesn't matter whether or not you have something to hide, it's about the principle. Would you willingly accept the NSA putting cameras in your home? No? Why not if you've nothing to hide? It's an invasion of privacy. Without that we have no freedoms whatsoever.

I don't trust the UK government either. They're just lapdogs for the Americans. I will only use cloud services based in certain countries like Scandinavia. Better still I've gone back to using flash drives instead of the cloud.

 

[scoobydoo99]

This is only going to hurt the U.S. economy in the long run. The internet economy is nothing without trust. The rest of the world will innovate and seal us off like a plague. We aren't always going to be top dog when it comes to technology. I'd bail on using U.S. Internet companies too except that I'm in the U.S., so I'm screwed either way. Without privacy we might as well be animals in a zoo. The government will feed us, give us health care, watch our every move. We only need to hand over our soul and basic right to freedom.

The majority of people won't complain until their TV goes out, and even then they'll be too obese to do anything about it. The control is slowly tightening. The government can get away with anything when they control access to basic necessities. It is in man's nature to be corrupt and seek power. Why are we slowly tearing down the limitations our forefathers put on the greed of man? We might as well quarter soldiers in every household to watch those who say they aren't doing anything wrong and declare a supreme king to rule us from on high. History repeats itself if we don't pay attention to it. Great empires are always falling. The U.S. is not immune. What makes us special in the history of the world is our freedom and if we let that erode away into nothing then we fail and the great American experiment will come to a tragic end.

Refreshing to see a comment from someone who "gets it". Unfortunately, most Americans don't, and thus are doomed to squander this grand experiment in freedom that our forefathers so carefully crafted. It's too bad, but it's inevitable.

 

[Tknull]

More or less all of those are dealing with opinions of people. I was specifically talking about in a professional environment as the original poster seemed to imply as he was removing his business from cloud providers (I automatically think Amazon S3, EC2, Rackspace, Microsoft Azure).

I could have been mistaken and if the OP was referring to opinions and views stored in places like dropbox or some other more data-centric site like that, then my point is less applicable. I'm really coming from a business point of view, not a personal point of view, and trying to show that business shouldn't need to worry too much about this kind of stuff unless I suppose they are in the journalistic business.

Ok, yea, i see your point. But I still see cause for worry. I read a short while ago that the IRS was mining all online data to use for audit purposes (example: they see you talking in a blog about the new boat that you just bought.... so they reference that against how much money you made last year to see if you could afford it).
Last presidential election, I remember a guy they called "Joe the Plumber" who became famous for like five minutes... because he asked Obama a somewhat difficult/embarrassing question. Next thing that you knew, it was all over the news about his business information, the issues he had with his contractors license, etc. Obviously someone in the government didn't like his political bent, and made full use of government databases to smear him.

 

[Rocketman]

On the one hand I am glad NSA has the ability to do these things, and on the other hand I am glad they can be used only for spy and military targets and NOT against citizens for "regulatory and criminal" enforcement. That is an unfair advantage for "civilian" applications.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-12-30-11-36-55

In other news, "The growing use of drones has sparked criticism among conservatives and liberals who fear the creation of a surveillance state in which authorities track and scrutinize every move of citizens.

"I just don't like the concept of drones flying over barbecues in New York to see whether you have a Big Gulp in your backyard or whether you are separating out your recyclables according to the city mandates," said Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., referring to a New York City ban on supersized soft drinks.

Paul has introduced a bill that would prohibit drones from checking for criminal or regulatory violations without a warrant."

Yes.

Rocketman

 

[69650]

Dated? After less than 250 years? The Roman Empire lasted over 2000 years. Will the American Empire last that long?

Dominance > Decadence > Decline

Happens every time. Empires come and go. The US will decline as China and India take over. It's inevitable. Some would say that it's already happening given the current US national debt of $17 Trillion. They'll never pay that off without causing real damage to the economy and living standards so it will just keep rising until the s*** finally hits the fan.

 

[jeffzoom91]

The only difference between a jailbroken iPhone and a non-jailbroken iPhone is the ability to run unsigned code.

But what if you could sign the code yourself?

Then you could run whatever software you wanted.

This is called a developer account.

I expect they were using a combination of jailbreak exploits and enterprise signed software to accomplish this. I didn't have an enterprise account back then but I know these days there is a warning before you install enterprise signed software from a new developer so stuff like this can't be installed without your knowledge. I don't know if that warning existed back then, but if they had physical access to the phone then that warning wouldn't do anything.

Apple makes you go through hell to get an Enterprise developer account, I expect this is why.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

really? It's called the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. and everyone should be worried that the American police state run amok violates it with impunity.

Constitution, what is that?
It hasn't existed since FDR perverted the commerce clause to regulate intrastate commerce.

 

[rei101]

The NSA can read what ever they want from me... they will get bored as hell.

 

[TwoBytes]

If an app comes out that tells you if your phone has been tampered with, it would shoot up the charts.

 

[Renzatic]

Some would say that it's already happening given the current US national debt of $17 Trillion. They'll never pay that off without causing real damage to the economy and living standards so it will just keep rising until the s*** finally hits the fan.

If we were to cut military expenditures alone in half, we could have it paid off in roughly 30 years. Or if we were to use the current amount of taxes collected per year and focused that solely on paying the debt, it could be done in about 3.

 

[leroypants]

I am sure it is just a coincidence that the Obama Administration vetoed a ban on the Iphone 4 and the ipad 2 in August...

 

[Klae17]

And how did they manage to re-seal and repackage the devices so the consumer wouldn't know? And how is it that no one from Fed Ex or UPS leaked that this was going on?

The NSA built a technology to hack into everything we do and everything we want to do. Do you think they couldn't have figured out who to put the shrink wrap back on?

Fedex and UPS might not have known it was going on, or only the higher ups did.

 

[scoobydoo99]

Dominance > Decadence > Decline

Happens every time. Empires come and go. The US will decline as China and India take over. It's inevitable. Some would say that it's already happening given the current US national debt of $17 Trillion. They'll never pay that off without causing real damage to the economy and living standards so it will just keep rising until the s*** finally hits the fan.

Absolutely right. The sheeple don't get it, but the power elite certainly do. The 2008 financial "crisis" was only a small preview. Those at the top know that a disastrous collapse is inevitable, and they plan to continue amassing power and wealth as long as possible, as they accelerate the end.

 

[Renzatic]

Absolutely right. The sheeple don't get it, but the power elite certainly do. The 2008 financial "crisis" was only a small preview. Those at the top know that a disastrous collapse is inevitable, and they plan to continue amassing power and wealth as long as possible, as they accelerate the end.

And what would the power elite get out of crashing the entire world economy?

 

[aloshka]

Refreshing to see a comment from someone who "gets it". Unfortunately, most Americans don't, and thus are doomed to squander this grand experiment in freedom that our forefathers so carefully crafted. It's too bad, but it's inevitable.

America was founded on slavery. Slaves were freed so anyone could become a slave.

While it's not as brutal as it used to be and by no means am I making it sound like it was easy back then, but the story is the same. If you don't own large amounts of money with political influence, that means you are working for someone who does. You are probably working long hours, don't see your family often, have to work while you are sick, etc and hopes and dreams that you will be "free". In those days that meant owning land and being able to work for yourself, in these days that means owning your own home and having enough financial freedom that you don't have to work 24/7. Both are pipe dreams. The difference is before it was open, now it's more subtle. You are a slave and don't know it.

----------

And what would the power elite get out of crashing the entire world economy?

The same thing they did before. They invest outside this economy and keep their power. When collapse happens, those people will be just fine. It won't affect their lifestyles.

 

[Renzatic]

Here's a book you both should read. Explains a ton.

 

[aloshka]

Here's a book you both should read. Explains a ton.

Definitely reading this. Just not on google books. I don't need advertisements based on what I read. Lol

But yeah, I think in venturing into this discussion I'm pushing it more into philosophy. Just sucks. You lose meaning to life when you realize you are just a slave to money and have no control over anything that happens to you.

 

[mjoshi123]

Unless the US government does something radical US IT companies will never be fully trusted again. I've already moved away from US based cloud companies as I simply don't trust that my data will remain secure. It's a very sad situation. Whatever next.

This is funny - you are from UK, which is mother of all police state with constant surveillance, your govt knows details about how many dumps you take in morning, even Royals were hacked and you are worried about US