NSA Was Able to Capture Live Data From Compromised iPhones in 2008, Including Live Camera, GPS, and More

[aloshka]

please watch:
15minutes and decently interesting

YouTube: video

Very good video. Thanks. Except... Why?

 

[thadoggfather]

The current POTUS took office on January 20, 2009.

This NSA program was likely instigated by the previous administration.

Thank you James Carney.

I hope you sleep well at night.

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What happens to AAPL if they are found to be involved with aiding this process? Seems awfully suspicious..

Also not only do the meetings between 'POTUS' and CEO's of tech companies over privacy concerns seem like theatrical diplomacy for the common constitutionalist, but also shady in that you never hear what was discussed in any capacity, just that they met. Whooptie do. Oh and that they wanted to discuss NSA stuff instead of the 'Affordable Care Act' flop. That's really tall of them to do

Really makes you wonder what Steve would make of all of this.

These revelations are getting more and more frightening and real. I hope people are waking up to reality.

 

[iChrist]

Thanks, Apple.

 

[flat five]

Very good video. Thanks. Except... Why?

why is at 18 minutes..

but you'll probably end up watching the whole 2 hours now

 

[aloshka]

The NSA can be described as this: maximum security at the expense of privacy. It's not about brainwashing. It's not about control (though admittedly, it could be). It's simply about having the quickest and easiest way for an intelligence agency to do its job, which is by gathering ALL the intelligence we produce through any means necessary, then sifting through it later to find what they want. Yeah, it's dastardly, wrong, and ultimately kinda lazy. But it's not that outlandish, and the end goals are pretty simple. They wanna catch terrorists, and they don't give a damn about your privacy.

Though like I said in the other thread, I don't like what the NSA is doing due to its slippery slope potential. To quote myself...

People are corrupt by nature. If what you described was how it was, I'd even take the step and say, ok that makes sense and might even be ok , after all security is important. . But you can't honestly think that this information won't be used for blackmail, bribing and more power! After all this information is so hidden, there are no consequences to using it in any way that they want. That's like giving someone God powers and think they will only use it for good and not their own gain. Even the "good" is subjective as it is always biased and depends on culture, etc That was the point of the three branches of government, that no one branch holds all the power. In this case the NSA holds power even over the three branches of govt. They can ignore the constitution they have all the power they need over key influencers as everyone has skeletons in their closets. No one controls them, and that's what the scary thing is. Hell, I could be arrested tomorrow over writing this because of "national security". Obviously an extreme example.

What I learned from being a psych major and doing some interesting experiments is that when you feel that there is something wrong, whether it is a relationship, a cheating spouse or your boss conspiracy to bankrupt the company just enough for it to be bought off... Then you are more likely right then you being just paranoid. assuming you are indeed a mentally healthy individual that does not wear tin foil on your head.

Again, I'm not a big genius and might have it all wrong. But when it feels wrong and corrupt, chances are it is.

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why is at 18 minutes..

YouTube: video

but you'll probably end up watching the whole 2 hours now

Yes I will. Thanks for the full link.

 

[Renzatic]

People are corrupt by nature. If what you described was how it was, I'd even take the step and say, ok that makes sense and might even be ok , after all security is important. . But you can't honestly think that this information won't be used for blackmail, bribing and more power! After all this information is so hidden, there are no consequences to using it in any way that they want. That's like giving someone God powers and think they will only use it for good and not their own gain. Even the "good" is subjective as it is always biased and depends on culture, etc That was the point of the three branches of government, that no one branch holds all the power. In this case the NSA holds power even over the three branches of govt. They can ignore the constitution they have all the power they need over key influencers as everyone has skeletons in their closets. No one controls them, and that's what the scary thing is. Hell, I could be arrested tomorrow over writing this because of "national security". Obviously an extreme example.

What I learned from being a psych major and doing some interesting experiments is that when you feel that there is something wrong, whether it is a relationship, a cheating spouse or your boss conspiracy to bankrupt the company just enough for it to be bought off... Then you are more likely right then you being just paranoid. assuming you are indeed a mentally healthy individual that does not wear tin foil on your head.

Again, I'm not a big genius and might have it all wrong. But when it feels wrong and corrupt, chances are it is.

Oh, it very easily could be used to nefarious ends, and that's why all of us should be very firmly against it. It might've come about due to somewhat good, if not incredibly misguided intentions, but like the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with...yeah. And PRISM is nothing but a well laid road that could lead us all straight to hell.

What I'm saying is don't contribute complicated explanations to relatively simple scenarios. Conspiracy theories are always overly complicated and outlandish. Why would all these behind-the-scenes supergroups go through so much effort to brainwash you through indirect means, when all they have to do is win your heart, and your mind will follow of its own accord. That can do that with just the right amount of fearmongering mixed with them saying things you want to hear. Much more cost effective, and much easier to implement.

Look at the Tea Party for a good example of that. They don't need a national panopticon to do what they do. A bunch of greedy bastards want to make money unimpeded, so they get some guys who look just like you and me to talk about socialism and American values, and the next thing you know, BAM! We're all arguing about global warming being real or not, while these greedy bastards don't have to worry about being saddled with environmental restrictions on their manufacturing processes (those are expensive). They stirred up the pot just enough to be able to do what they wanted to do. And that's all it ever takes.

Conspiracy theories work on the same levels, and appeal to people because it makes them feel like one of the few who knows The Truth. That there's a vast global network of rich men playing us from behind the scenes to create their own personal utopia at our expense. The truth is usually right in front of your face, and the people responsible are usually doing it just to make a quick buck.

edit: though for the sake of fairness, it is kinda funny that I'm bashing conspiracy theories while we're discussing a literal one in this very thread. In a way, it's both proof that they can happen, and evidence of why they won't ever ultimately work. I mean hell, it was a secret for...what...all of 4 years before someone blew the whistle? All it takes is one person with a bit of a conscience, and suddenly the Secret Plan is ruined for everybody.

 

[Oletros]

Each day it passes, each day it show that NSA et must be stoppped

 

[charlituna]

Keywords here are: Physical Access

In other words, they couldn't do in (in 2008) through sheer software; unless they somehow managed to use jailbreaking for their benefit.

And even now apparently they can't. They still need physical access.


However, what really bothers me very much is the interception of packages. [/QUOTE]

Which means that the help was more the carriers than Apple. Good reason not to order your phone online and have it shipped to you.

And I want to see some proof of what they claim they got.

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This doesn't surprise me at all. Everyone needs to understand it doesnt matter what device you are using. PC, Mac, iOS, android, windows phone. It does not matter. The NSA can hack it and control everything. There is no reason to think otherwise. Anything and everything you do on or with your computing devices is accessible to the NSA in one way or another. There is nothing you can do except maybe make it slightly more difficult for them.

And Mr Finch created social media to feed The Machine

 

[charlituna]

What happens to AAPL if they are found to be involved with aiding this process? Seems awfully suspicious..

Suspicious in a couple of ways. Including that someone could be making claims with no proof for a political vendetta against the company. Or to get press coverage. We've seen what a hero Snowden is made out to be, someone might be looking to be the next. Who knows really at this point

 

[thadoggfather]

Suspicious in a couple of ways. Including that someone could be making claims with no proof for a political vendetta against the company. Or to get press coverage. We've seen what a hero Snowden is made out to be, someone might be looking to be the next. Who knows really at this point

Good point.. but I'm not sure he's still a hero to everybody. Some people, certain folks, get hung up on the fact that he's a high school dropout, had a stripper girlfriend, and inconsequential details rather than the fact Snowden isnt the focus but rather NSA Revelations that should disgust everybody, except for perhaps content NSA employees and fascists. In fact, our POTUS finds him [Snowden] to be no hero at all

Same people who still want to direct all constipated emotions towards solely Dubya, and get involved in this fairy tale war of blue vs red and good vs evil. Both parties are one in the same, and neither are interested in your interests.

 

[aloshka]

Oh, it very easily could be used to nefarious ends, and that's why all of us should be very firmly against it. It might've come about due to somewhat good, if not incredibly misguided intentions, but like the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with...yeah. And PRISM is nothing but a well laid road that could lead us all straight to hell.

What I'm saying is don't contribute complicated explanations to relatively simple scenarios. Conspiracy theories are always overly complicated and outlandish. Why would all these behind-the-scenes supergroups go through so much effort to brainwash you through indirect means, when all they have to do is win your heart, and your mind will follow of its own accord. That can do that with just the right amount of fearmongering mixed with them saying things you want to hear. Much more cost effective, and much easier to implement.

Look at the Tea Party for a good example of that. They don't need a national panopticon to do what they do. A bunch of greedy bastards want to make money unimpeded, so they get some guys who look just like you and me to talk about socialism and American values, and the next thing you know, BAM! We're all arguing about global warming being real or not, while these greedy bastards don't have to worry about being saddled with environmental restrictions on their manufacturing processes (those are expensive). They stirred up the pot just enough to be able to do what they wanted to do. And that's all it ever takes.

Conspiracy theories work on the same levels, and appeal to people because it makes them feel like one of the few who knows The Truth. That there's a vast global network of rich men playing us from behind the scenes to create their own personal utopia at our expense. The truth is usually right in front of your face, and the people responsible are usually doing it just to make a quick buck.

edit: though for the sake of fairness, it is kinda funny that I'm bashing conspiracy theories while we're discussing a literal one in this very thread. In a way, it's both proof that they can happen, and evidence of why they won't ever ultimately work. I mean hell, it was a secret for...what...all of 4 years before someone blew the whistle? All it takes is one person with a bit of a conscience, and suddenly the Secret Plan is ruined for everybody.

I see what you mean and that does make sense about conspiracy theories. My parents grew up in Russia during the KGB ordeal and I think some of their paranoia rubbed off on me. While the KGB did plant people (instead of devices in those days) in certain groups, it made everyone paranoid and come up with insane conspiracy theories as if the KGB was interested in an old lady living in a forest by herself.

This will go on and there is very little that we can do about it as most of it will be a secret anyway.

I guess it's that powerless that scares me and makes me wonder into these complex theories and how they will affect me even though realistically, I am a very boring subject and not important in the scheme of things anyway-especially to the NSA. But it does make you wonder what else can they be hiding. If not for fear but just of interest of what they are capable of (technology-wise)

As for conspiracy theories... Can't help but feel that even 9-11 was orchestrated to give DOD power that they would have never ever gotten by itself because people would cry out. Or it's probably more likely that terrorists attacked the us and the US responded by giving intelligence more power to prevent it from happening again. The former making more sense, since having all that power won't give them much unless they are interested in harassing typical civilians. So I definitely see your point.

I guess it's just people (me) trying to piece things together after-the-fact. But there are endless combinations of events and decisions that would get us to where we are now and without more information the natural response is fear and immediate imagining of how the NSA focuses solely on destroying one's life. :]

 

[Patrick J]

At least this is individual targeted survailence, personally I'm fine with that - it's what we have security services for. I expect GCHQ had/have a similar thing going on (or access to the NSA's software).

Are you paid to spread misinformation? This is a small tool in a huge far over-reaching tool. This is mass surveillance.

This is police being lazy and letting computers do the job for them.

This is also a huge political blackmail risk "waiting to happen". Imagine if you had 10 years of phone conversations, email and internet history on a prominent politician?

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Isn't this the point in the movie where the peasants storm the castle?

This. We have forgotten that politicians work for us. Let me say that again, they work for us.

The "illusion" is created that we the People have power to elect one "representative". But this is a "game" and is only a matter of simulacra.

Current crop politicians do very little to represent the will of the people. It's a sham, and hopefully we (especially the internet generation) will see through this crumbling illusion and do something forceful to stop it.

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Also a link to a previous discussion that was just warming up, when a mod shut it down and said we had to move here.

 

[springsup]

We're talking about the current state of US debt. We, the currently largest economy in the world, with the correspondingly largest amount of debt, are 17 trillion in the hole.

As of 2012 (might have changed since), the EU is the largest economy in the world.

But yeah, on paper it isn't un-payable. In practice though, there's no way it will ever be paid - even now when it's subsidized by trillions of dollars of borrowing every year, American politicians still insist that taxes come down (especially for the very richest)! They're willing to shut down the entire federal government to protect the profits of their insurance industry, while their citizens eat through their savings and lose their homes! Where does that kind of country possibly raise $17T?

Taxes would have to skyrocket just to balance the budget (so no new debt is accrued), let alone pay off the accumulated debt. Revenue might be $6T, but they can't just spend that all on debt reduction and shut the government down for a year.

On top of that, the enormous amount of interest that is being sapped by that debt is leeching America's productivity and sending it to China. In time, Americans will mostly be working for China's interest payments, further reducing competitiveness.

Honestly, I'm hoping for it to happen soon only so the great communist revolution can sweep all of this destructive, Earth-sapping capitalism crap from the world. An individualistic society is no longer an option in the modern world; even the rich need to accept that their wealth would not exist in a vacuum and that ever-greater wealth inequality is in nobody's interest.

 

[Patrick J]

Honestly, I'm hoping for it to happen soon only so the great communist revolution can sweep all of this destructive, Earth-sapping capitalism crap from the world. An individualistic society is no longer an option in the modern world; even the rich need to accept that their wealth would not exist in a vacuum and that ever-greater wealth inequality is in nobody's interest.

I agree with a lot of this.

We need to go back to the original form of democracy, where the elected persons represent the will of the people. They bring this will to a table with other representatives. They make no decisions themselves!

If there is a question, the elected representative comes back and asks his electors.

Too much of this political rubbish is because somehow the politicians think they can just do what they want without consulting the people. And people are so drugged up with anti-depressants that they just keep rolling with it. No critical thinking whatsoever.

 

[patent10021]

really? It's called the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. and everyone should be worried that the American police state run amok violates it with impunity.

Applicable in every country (almost ) I wonder what it is we are concerned about exactly? Do we think they will frame us for a crime an "elite" wants to commit or a covert plan that needs MKULTRA type scapegoats? What kind of nefarious things do you think they would do? I wonder if people in the 1930's would have cared? Why do these governments want our data anyway? How does this fit into their NWO plans I wonder? I wonder if a country like India is doing the same thing and if its people would care? Of course I don't want them looking at my balls via my iSight camera. Actually I wouldn't care. Old grannies can see my junk when they come in the men's washrooms to clean them here in Japan anyway. What plans do they have for our data...?

 

[peterdevries]

And how did they manage to re-seal and repackage the devices so the consumer wouldn't know? And how is it that no one from Fed Ex or UPS leaked that this was going on?

A lot of packages cross the border, and customs can inspect any package they like without a need to reseal it exactly like it was found. I have received cut open packages before, where customs didn't even do an attempt at keeping the packaging intact.

You would never know it was customs or any other organisation that had opened it.

 

[Patrick J]

The basic idea behind communism (Marxist) is not bad, but a civilisation used to capitalism (including the Russian civilisation) will always resort to corruption. It just won't work.

No one has yet found the perfect political system.

Creating a solid system for billions of people will be hard.

A group of 150-250 people is a normal sized tribe which will tend to regulate itself. We have seen this in the few remaining tribal groups, and behavioural studies by Dunbar, Killworth and Bernard.

Above this number multiple issues like crime and abuse start to slowly get out of hand.

It's an interesting dilemma for our modern society. I take comfort in knowing we are in a better position that ever before to fix this mess because of the amazing communication the tool the internet is. This is why we must protect internet privacy.

 

[varunsanthanam]

AT first I believed this man and his credibility, but the more i watched this video, the less I believed him. His potential methods / descriptions / obvious lack of technical knowledge made be incredibly skeptical. Some choice quotes

"

The sanctity of the postal system has been violated! {...} One of the ways I've heard that they change it is that they will take the case of your computer and injection mold a hardware backdoor into the case of the computer, so that even if you were to look at the motherboard or have it serviced you would not see it. It just has to be within proximity of the motherboard.

(also, his various 'hardware backdoors' range from absurd to incredibly absurd)

"

They can replace the firmware of the hard drive! Firmware can do a lot of things!

Maybe Apple just write ****** software... We know that's true!

It's not free as in free software, it's free as in YOU'RE OWNED.

 

[Moccasin]

They wouldn't have to do this with the phone that was sent to you. They can buy 100 iPhones, do whatever they want with them without any hurry, and if Foxconn can seal a package so that it looks brand new, then surely someone else can do it as well. Prepared that way, all they have to do is swap packages. An NSA employee could get a job at FedEx or UPS (I wonder if they can keep the second salary).



If you buy a new device, there's no difference between "your" iPhone and any other iPhone, so a swap is all that's needed. Unless you order one with an engraving. I wonder if Apple will accept orders for an engraving "******* the NSA".

I don't think this would work. They would need to be able to modify the device in situ to avoid holding stocks of each variation of each device in each configuration/colour. With phones, that also used to mean the model specific to each network. If they made a mistake, the switch would have been obvious.

Not only that, but if you buy direct from Apple, the item's serial number is noted on the invoice/shipping note which is sent electronically to the customer.

Also, presumably, there would need to be a way of doing this to devices where they didn't have access right from the initial delivery or those bought in retail outlets. So in a cafe, office, shop, target's home etc they could flash a target's device with the mod quickly and unobtrusively.

 

[mulo]

Where is Little Snitch for iPhone?

 

[phalseHUD]

Ah, so Foxconn is in on this now too. Got it.

I don't think he said Foxconn was in on anything, just that Foxconn are not the only folks in the world who know how to shrink wrap...

 

[yoak]

I don't think that it's what they are doing right now with all this data is my biggest concern, but what if government takes a whole new direction?
I'm not saying it will, but things can change fast.
Only have to go back to the thirties in Germany, imagine if all this data was available when they took over, it would give them a great head start.

This is one of the reasons I'm not too happy about all this data being collected, even if I'm not doing anything wrong (according to present government)

 

[Nightarchaon]

So, anyone bought an Xbox with Kinect, or an Xbox One with Kinect.... in my head there is a room, like the one in the Matrix full of TV screens, somewhere deep in the NSA HQ, watching all those camera feeds, listening for keywords,

 

[gnasher729]

Good point.. but I'm not sure he's still a hero to everybody. Some people, certain folks, get hung up on the fact that he's a high school dropout, had a stripper girlfriend,...

What's wrong with having a stripper girlfriend?

 

[illitrate23]

What's wrong with having a stripper girlfriend?

everyone else is jealous, so they claim it is a bad thing