NSA Was Able to Capture Live Data From Compromised iPhones in 2008, Including Live Camera, GPS, and More

[darkplanets]

This is just plain wrong, if true. Imagine if they could deploy a variant of this in OTA updates.

I'm appalled that people still support the NSA given the lack of congressional or judicial oversight, and clear breaches in privacy and security. Any more leaks about their operations and we're going to be smack dab in an Orwellian "Ministry of Thought."

While I understand the original intent and mission of the agency, the lack of true oversight is disconcerting to say the least. The FISA court is a puppet court that doesn't respect the rights of US citizens, and isn't really under congressional oversight either. Every juncture into someone's private data should require a warrant from an unbiased federal judge PER PERSON. The 4th amendment is there for a reason, contrary to recent rulings, and allowance of bulk monitoring of individuals via sweeping rulings is simply wrong.

While the argument could certainly be made that those who do nothing wrong have nothing to fear, the real concern lies in the misuse of collected data. We all have skeletons and dirt in the closet. If the NSA is collecting and parsing ALL our personal data (it comes close at this point), what's to say someone wouldn't misuse it for personal gain? Those 40k+ employees are human after all, and that's not even considering potential political ramifications. Let's say either independently or under executive order the NSA were to dig up dirt on an opponent, and that material was used against them? What about bribing and blackmailing key judicial figures like judges and justices to push personal or political agendas?

To be clear, I'm not saying this happens now, only that this type of collection opens up the possibility for tremendous misuse in the future. Furthermore, intentionally weakening products and standards will only erode consumer confidence, and weaken security against criminal elements. I expect credit card fraud will get far worse and criminal elements begin to figure out some of these back doors.

 

[Renzatic]

Definitely reading this. Just not on google books. I don't need advertisements based on what I read. Lol

You don't take it seriously, do you?

But yeah, I think in venturing into this discussion I'm pushing it more into philosophy. Just sucks. You lose meaning to life when you realize you are just a slave to money and have no control over anything that happens to you.

Okay, this is actually coherent. If you really want to define our current situation realistically, upward mobility has become burdened by a group of people who suddenly discovered they really like making a lot of money, and have managed to successfully game the system in order to continue making money unhindered. There's no deep seated attempts at mass population brainwashing, no attempts to crash the economy in order to subject us to abject poverty so we're easier to control, nothing of the sort. They just want more money, and are willing to go to great lengths to get it.

 

[flat five]

Of course tinfoil hat crowd will claim Apple was allowing it to be installed at Foxconn factories. Too many people in Alex Jones territory these days which is scary.

just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching you.

 

[darkplanets]

Unfortunately this is true. What really bugs me, however, is that the NSA is so covert that the rest of the world knows about it before the US. Which means they are targeting Americans not he rest of the world. But Americans feel so safe, that no one will do anything about it until it hits them. Then they will post in Facebook that the government sucks. That's about as far reaching as Americans will get...Facebook posts.

That's why I think the government here will keep pushing to see how much it can get away with. At this point, I think anything. Heck, they can come arrest you with no trial, no explanation because of "national security".

Scary and starting to remind me of Russia... People vote against someone and he becomes the president anyway (not implying Obama, I like him, just stating that the people don't matter anymore).

Exactly this. You can lose all your constitutional rights in a heartbeat in the name of national security, and the current governance is hankering to see how far they can go.

This is funny - you are from UK, which is mother of all police state with constant surveillance, your govt knows details about how many dumps you take in morning, even Royals were hacked and you are worried about US

What if I told you the NSA was in cahoots with the GCHQ, and that anything done there is being done here (or worse)? I bet you'd find that both have equally pervasive surveillance networks.

 

[flat five]

If we were to cut military expenditures alone in half, we could have it paid off in roughly 30 years. Or if we were to use the current amount of taxes collected per year and focused that solely on paying the debt, it could be done in about 3.

it's impossible to pay the debt.. literally impossible.. there's more debt in the world than money.. (you know.. interest and all that fun stuff)

 

[Renzatic]

it's impossible to pay the debt.. literally impossible.. there's more debt in the world than money.

We're talking about the current state of US debt. We, the currently largest economy in the world, with the correspondingly largest amount of debt, are 17 trillion in the hole.

Our economy, measured by our gross domestic product, moves roughly 20 trillion dollars through the country per quarter, and we collect about 6 trillion a year in taxes. That 17 trillion in debt is kinda steep, but it's hardly more debt than the entire world has money.

edit: Actually, that 20 trillion might be per year. Quarterly, the US makes 6.5 trillion, give or take.

 

[BigHonkingDeal]

Lets face it. Everyone should know by now that ANY device that connects online isn't private. It is sad, we should have privacy, but that simply isn't the case.

I will admit, I didn't expect this, but it is not particularly surprising.

Now we know why everybody gets free cloud storage..... Makes it easier for all involved parties

 

[flat five]

We're talking about the current state of US debt. We, the currently largest economy in the world, with the correspondingly largest amount of debt, are 17 trillion in the hole.

Our economy, measured by our gross domestic product, moves roughly 20 trillion dollars through the country per quarter, and we collect about 6 trillion a year in taxes. That 17 trillion in debt is kinda steep, but it's hardly more debt than the entire world has money.

then take the whole world out of it..

let's say you and i decide to move to the moon.. i decide to be the banker.. i make 5 dollar bills and loan them to you but you have to pay me back 6 dollars.. but there's only 5 dollars in existence.. that's the same thing that happens when u.s currency is made.

(well, you can always attempt to pay me back the other dollar through labor --ie i.r.s --ie slavery)

 

[aloshka]

This is just plain wrong, if true. Imagine if they could deploy a variant of this in OTA updates.

I'm appalled that people still support the NSA given the lack of congressional or judicial oversight, and clear breaches in privacy and security. Any more leaks about their operations and we're going to be smack dab in an Orwellian "Ministry of Thought."

While I understand the original intent and mission of the agency, the lack of true oversight is disconcerting to say the least. The FISA court is a puppet court that doesn't respect the rights of US citizens, and isn't really under congressional oversight either. Every juncture into someone's private data should require a warrant from an unbiased federal judge PER PERSON. The 4th amendment is there for a reason, contrary to recent rulings, and allowance of bulk monitoring of individuals via sweeping rulings is simply wrong.

While the argument could certainly be made that those who do nothing wrong have nothing to fear, the real concern lies in the misuse of collected data. We all have skeletons and dirt in the closet. If the NSA is collecting and parsing ALL our personal data (it comes close at this point), what's to say someone wouldn't misuse it for personal gain? Those 40k+ employees are human after all, and that's not even considering potential political ramifications. Let's say either independently or under executive order the NSA were to dig up dirt on an opponent, and that material was used against them? What about bribing and blackmailing key judicial figures like judges and justices to push personal or political agendas?

To be clear, I'm not saying this happens now, only that this type of collection opens up the possibility for tremendous misuse in the future. Furthermore, intentionally weakening products and standards will only erode consumer confidence, and weaken security against criminal elements. I expect credit card fraud will get far worse and criminal elements begin to figure out some of these back doors.

I just wanted to say I agree. Although I think it already happens. This has existed for a very long time and I'm sure they would have done something with the data and not just sit on it.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Isn't this the point in the movie where the peasants storm the castle?

 

[Renzatic]

then take the whole world out of it..

let's say you and i decide to move to the moon.. i decide to be the banker.. i make 5 dollar bills and loan them to you but you have to pay me back 6 dollars.. but there's only 5 dollars in existence.. that's the same thing that happens when u.s currency is made.

(well, you can always attempt to pay me back the other dollar through labor --ie i.r.s --ie slavery)

That's only true if you assume all the debt is accrued from the US printing money to pay for its little projects that can't be covered by taxes alone, which isn't the case. The vast majority of it is actually owed to...well...us, due to the government's love of raiding social security, civil services, and borrowing various bits and pieces from wealthy US based organizations. We owing ourselves accounts for around 60% of our total debt.

But it's not money coming out of nowhere. It's existing money being moved. So no, there's not more money in the world that debt.

 

[lordofthereef]

Anyone know of a good source of info on how to go Off The Grid? Lol whoever thought privacy would be such a commodity!

Depends on how far you want to go. You can start by not carrying a mini computer (smart phone) with you wherever you go.

Right now, I think that step alone would do a whole lot for you. But if you want to take it all the way, go live in the woods of Maine and live off of berries and Moose meat.

 

[flat five]

That's only true if you assume all the debt is accrued from the US printing money to pay for its little projects that can't be covered by taxes alone, which isn't the case. The vast majority of it is actually owed to...well...us, due to the government's love of raiding social security, civil services, and borrowing various bits and pieces from wealthy US based organizations. We owing ourselves accounts for around 60% of our total debt.

But it's not money coming out of nowhere. It's existing money being moved. So no, there's not more money in the world that debt.

do you know how money comes into existence?

 

[Dr McKay]

Hey, mods..

A bit late to this one. we already have a 2-page thread on it:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1690403/

Shouldn't this be merged?

Though I do say that the 2008 time frame is a bit shocking.. This means that this was implemented possibly earlier than the current POTUS term.

BL.

MacRumors always shut down user threads on subjects if the front page covers it, even if the user was first.

 

[aloshka]

You don't take it seriously, do you?



Okay, this is actually coherent. If you really want to define our current situation realistically, upward mobility has become burdened by a group of people who suddenly discovered they really like making a lot of money, and have managed to successfully game the system in order to continue making money unhindered. There's no deep seated attempts at mass population brainwashing, no attempts to crash the economy in order to subject us to abject poverty so we're easier to control, nothing of the sort. They just want more money, and are willing to go to great lengths to get it.

I was serious about the book. The google thing was a joke. I'm just trying not to get depressed over knowing all this new info. As for google, I'm just fed up with them. They release some service that is free and works well. Then when enough people sign up they change the privacy policy and milk ad revenue for as long as possible at the cost of everything, especially people's privacy. Example of what you are saying.

Except I don't think this is what this NSA thing is about. I think it is about brainwashing and power. I hope it's not and maybe the paranoid side of me thinks it is.

Sorry if I misunderstood you. It has been a really long mind numbing day.

 

[damir00]

You're finding out now what they could do in 2008.

You'll find out in 2018 what they are doing today.

There is zero privacy on the internet or in mobile communications - the sooner people accept this and start acting accordingly, the less heartbreak there will be later.

 

[hansonjohn590]

Of course tinfoil hat crowd will claim Apple was allowing it to be installed at Foxconn factories. Too many people in Alex Jones territory these days which is scary.

And how many have been proven to be correct since the Snonwden leaks?

 

[Renzatic]

do you know how money comes into existence?

The money we print is all based on something to back it up with. It used to be gold and silver, now it's all based on the currency market, which I'm not even gonna pretend I begin to understand.

 

[viacavour]

In 2008, we had iOS 2.0 and the reveal of the first iPhone SDK (around March 2008). NSA probably used the developer access and tools to jailbreak the phone -- with or without Steve Jobs.

 

[MaxxTraxx]

I'll never understand how can anyone not be against this action by the is US Government. While I do see the need for our government to keep us safe, the rights and privacy of Americans must always be considered. When we lose our rights as Americans, we have lost everything Americans for over 200 years have fought for.

 

[Dionte]

No more undressing in front of my iPhone, these peeping toms.

 

[flat five]

The money we print is all based on something to back it up with. It used to be gold and silver, now it's all based on the currency market, which I'm not even gonna pretend I begin to understand.

please watch:
15minutes and decently interesting

 

[balamw]

MacRumors always shut down user threads on subjects if the front page covers it, even if the user was first.

MOD NOTE: We used to merge the pre-existing user thread in as a matter if course, but changes have made that less desirable. We still will merge in some user threads created after the front page thread if they have replies that would benefit the main thread.

B

 

[Renzatic]

Except I don't think this is what this NSA thing is about. I think it is about brainwashing and power. I hope it's not and maybe the paranoid side of me thinks it is.

Sorry if I misunderstood you. It has been a really long mind numbing day.

Any real life conspiracy almost always has a realistic and rather anticlimactic end goal in mind. If the ultimate goal sounds overly convoluted and complicated, it's probably just a bog standard conspiracy theory that doesn't have any truth to it. Like the housing market crash could be considered a conspiracy committed by a small group of people who slowly gamed the system in order to make more money. On the other hand, saying that a group of people got together to flood the worlds water supply with fluoride in order to make us more pliant to the subliminal messages the MPAA plants between commercials to make us more accepting of the eventual coming of the Illuminati backed New World Order...that's just, man. That's complicated, and would never work.

The NSA can be described as this: maximum security at the expense of privacy. It's not about brainwashing. It's not about control (though admittedly, it could be). It's simply about having the quickest and easiest way for an intelligence agency to do its job, which is by gathering ALL the intelligence we produce through any means necessary, then sifting through it later to find what they want. Yeah, it's dastardly, wrong, and ultimately kinda lazy. But it's not that outlandish, and the end goals are pretty simple. They wanna catch terrorists, and they don't give a damn about your privacy.

Though like I said in the other thread, I don't like what the NSA is doing due to its slippery slope potential. To quote myself...

It's a system that doesn't have to consider accountability for anything it does. No checks. No balances. It's run and administrated entirely in secret, and only has to answer to itself. It is, in short, a system just waiting to be abused.

 

[scbn]

This new revelation is another big blow not only to the US government's reputation, but also to the U.S. tech companies internationally. Nobody in the world is going to trust the products and services from those U.S. companies; that's why the tech giants from Google to Apple are fighting back, but the damage is already done.