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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,584
26,704
The Misty Mountains
Skyrim yes, Fallout 4 no. I wasn't a big fan of 4 since Bethesda cut so many of the RPG mechanics out in that entry, and giving your character a voice was a big mistake that I'm so glad they walked back on for Starfield. I got bored of 4 that I just went back to New Vegas to cheer me up.

The reason I bought Starfield and why I really want to play it is for something I love very very much: Zero Gravity Combat. I used to play this multiplayer game a long time ago that sadly shut down called Shattered Horizon, which was a multiplayer arena shooter taking place completely outside in space. Everyone doing EVAs shooting each other, with your shots actually pushing you back, the degrees of movement you had, it was so fun.


After the game shut down the other zero gravity space FPS was Space Junkies, a VR game...by Ubisoft...yeah you can guess what happened to that game. But besides that was a better game: Prey 2017 by Arkane Studios which was my favorite game of the PS4 generation besides Persona 5 obviously. Prey 2017 though was not an FPS but was an immersive sim, so gunplay was not a heavy focus, but it did have moments where you fought Typhon monsters in zero g inside and outside the station and you were effected by Newton's Third Law. Then after that...nothing...nothing for years...

...until now. I was gonna wait on Starfield, but watching the Starfield Direct, they show off yes there's lots of moments in zero g, and yes, you can do combat in zero g, and in zero g kinect weapons effect Newton's Third Law. The moment I saw that, I immediately preordered the Premium Edition. Zero G gunfights are my thing and wish that more games did them, because you have so much freedom in what directions you can go, and it's so cool to just have a floating shootout in space. And as an added bonus I recently learned Id Software was helping Bethesda with the shooting mechanics, which has me even more excited because Doom 2016 and Eternal kicked ass.

So I say again: Why isn't it Friday yet TODD?!
I don‘t remember my F4 character having a voice, an out loud voice. Maybe I’m not remembering correctly. 🤔
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
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I don‘t remember my F4 character having a voice, an out loud voice. Maybe I’m not remembering correctly. 🤔

Fallout 4 was the one Bethesda RPG that broke tradition and decided to give your character a voice. The male and female both had a set voice and talked during dialogue with NPCs Mass Effect style.


Now that worked in Mass Effect since you were Commander Shepard, an established character in the game's universe and the main point of the game was you were roleplaying Shepard, and chose what Shepard did and didn't do. Why does it not work for Fallout? It doesn't work for Fallout since your character is supposed to be whoever you want. Giving your character a voice and having them talk during NPC conversations means you can't imagine what voice the crazy character you created would have, since they would always have one fixed voice.

But that's the least of the problems having the player character talked had. The biggest issue is the fact being fully voiced means dialogue choices are scaled back tremendously to save money on voice acting.

Here's the traditional view when having a conversation with an NPC in Fallout or Elder Scrolls:

maxresdefault.jpg


In older Bethesda RPGs your dialogue options are full sentences of what your character would say, followed by special dialogue choices and what stats are required to say it. You know what you're gonna say. Plus, there's more dialogue options than just the ones shown as you can see there's a scroll bar, so you could have long conversations, or short and brief, selecting whatever you want to roleplay as.

Now here's Fallout 4's in comparison

maxresdefault.jpg


Gone is the list of sentences to say. Instead you are limited to at max FOUR choices, and they all have the same theming. Top choice is asking for more detail, left is a humorous response, down is a positive response, and right is a negative response. ALL of the dialogue trees follow this. You have no idea what your character is gonna say, and a lot of times you select what you think is something your character would say but the voice acting says something else.

This also means extra dialogue dependent on your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats are gone too, including the fan favorite low intelligence dialogue choices which are absolutely hilarious.


This dialogue selector was so hated one of the very first mods made for Fallout 4 was deleting the directional dialogue select and bringing back the original extended dialogue list with the full sentences.

of2dra7c88db5h7dvqgp.png


Unfortunately this solution wasn't perfect since you were still limited to just four options at max but at least you knew what your character was gonna say

Which segways into the final problem with having the player character voiced: Modding. Modders love adding new quests, new locations, new characters and conversations with those characters. Just one problem: Your character has a voice. So how do you add new dialogue options for a character who is fully voiced. And that's where the problem came in: Making mods that added new dialogue was a nightmare since modders had to take in account the fact the player has a voice. Some had to reuse previous voice clips from other dialogues, some tried to hire a soundalike but then remembering they gotta make a female voice too so they give up on that plan and try to use Youtube Poop style sentence mixing to make new voice clips. Some modders just said screw it and ignored the voice acting altogether.

So thank Todd Bethesda realized their mistake and got rid of voice acting for your character, returning the old dialogue choices we love about their games.

vVoJeYJSsT3eFBTbzS2C8N-1920-80.jpg
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,584
26,704
The Misty Mountains
Fallout 4 was the one Bethesda RPG that broke tradition and decided to give your character a voice. The male and female both had a set voice and talked during dialogue with NPCs Mass Effect style.


Now that worked in Mass Effect since you were Commander Shepard, an established character in the game's universe and the main point of the game was you were roleplaying Shepard, and chose what Shepard did and didn't do. Why does it not work for Fallout? It doesn't work for Fallout since your character is supposed to be whoever you want. Giving your character a voice and having them talk during NPC conversations means you can't imagine what voice the crazy character you created would have, since they would always have one fixed voice.

But that's the least of the problems having the player character talked had. The biggest issue is the fact being fully voiced means dialogue choices are scaled back tremendously to save money on voice acting.

Here's the traditional view when having a conversation with an NPC in Fallout or Elder Scrolls:

maxresdefault.jpg


In older Bethesda RPGs your dialogue options are full sentences of what your character would say, followed by special dialogue choices and what stats are required to say it. You know what you're gonna say. Plus, there's more dialogue options than just the ones shown as you can see there's a scroll bar, so you could have long conversations, or short and brief, selecting whatever you want to roleplay as.

Now here's Fallout 4's in comparison

maxresdefault.jpg


Gone is the list of sentences to say. Instead you are limited to at max FOUR choices, and they all have the same theming. Top choice is asking for more detail, left is a humorous response, down is a positive response, and right is a negative response. ALL of the dialogue trees follow this. You have no idea what your character is gonna say, and a lot of times you select what you think is something your character would say but the voice acting says something else.

This also means extra dialogue dependent on your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats are gone too, including the fan favorite low intelligence dialogue choices which are absolutely hilarious.


This dialogue selector was so hated one of the very first mods made for Fallout 4 was deleting the directional dialogue select and bringing back the original extended dialogue list with the full sentences.

of2dra7c88db5h7dvqgp.png


Unfortunately this solution wasn't perfect since you were still limited to just four options at max but at least you knew what your character was gonna say

Which segways into the final problem with having the player character voiced: Modding. Modders love adding new quests, new locations, new characters and conversations with those characters. Just one problem: Your character has a voice. So how do you add new dialogue options for a character who is fully voiced. And that's where the problem came in: Making mods that added new dialogue was a nightmare since modders had to take in account the fact the player has a voice. Some had to reuse previous voice clips from other dialogues, some tried to hire a soundalike but then remembering they gotta make a female voice too so they give up on that plan and try to use Youtube Poop style sentence mixing to make new voice clips. Some modders just said screw it and ignored the voice acting altogether.

So thank Todd Bethesda realized their mistake and got rid of voice acting for your character, returning the old dialogue choices we love about their games.

vVoJeYJSsT3eFBTbzS2C8N-1920-80.jpg
Oh yeah you’re right, I am reminded, and I liked the voice. :)
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
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The first reviews for Starfield are coming out

Bethesda did it. They delivered.





Surprisingly, this is the most stable Bethesda RPG they ever released. That extra year delay plus Microsoft's budget did wonders. It's the ultimate space exploration fantasy with so much to do and see, some saying it may be too much to do and see


Well Premium Edition owners, we only have EIGHT MORE HOURS!

Hype.gif


Cue the Sir Elton John! Xbox is back baby!

 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,494
The first reviews for Starfield are coming out

Bethesda did it. They delivered.





Surprisingly, this is the most stable Bethesda RPG they ever released. That extra year delay plus Microsoft's budget did wonders. It's the ultimate space exploration fantasy with so much to do and see, some saying it may be too much to do and see


Well Premium Edition owners, we only have EIGHT MORE HOURS!

Hype.gif


Cue the Sir Elton John! Xbox is back baby!

I'm not reading some of these reviews as Bethesda delivered though--sounds like this game is meh to good.
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
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I'm not reading some of these reviews as Bethesda delivered though--sounds like this game is meh to good.

Well they must be doing something right as the game's at an 88 on Metacritic, and IGN Japan just gave it a 10

 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
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Well they must be doing something right as the game's at an 88 on Metacritic, and IGN Japan just gave it a 10

I am not hating on the game or rooting against it or anything--don't get me wrong. I watched Dan Stapleton's review of it on IGN and the knocks against it seemed to mostly be for the large amount time you have to spend at the beginning learning how to play as well as the extremely cumbersome inventory system and unhelpful/nonexistent maps.

The graphics look freaking amazing and it looks like there are no major game or story breaking bugs reported so far. I will most likely play it sometime this winter on Steam.
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2022
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I am not hating on the game or rooting against it or anything--don't get me wrong. I watched Dan Stapleton's review of it on IGN and the knocks against it seemed to mostly be for the large amount time you have to spend at the beginning learning how to play as well as the extremely cumbersome inventory system and unhelpful/nonexistent maps.

The graphics look freaking amazing and it looks like there are no major game or story breaking bugs reported so far. I will most likely play it sometime this winter on Steam.

I'm playing in four hours since I got Premium Edition. Hoping it works on my Steam Deck. Portable Starfield would be a game changer

 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,627
43,626
Reviews seem mixed and in a sense this game was hyped so much that its going to be difficult to live up to that expectation


Starfield review: You will like some of it
Starfield has moments of beauty, but it features just as many instances of drudgery and disconnection in its main quest line. Playing on pre-release code on Xbox Series S, these issues are only exacerbated by chugging framerates, low-resolution set pieces and roughly one hard crash every five hours. Starfield is big and largely bland, and while it gets some open-world gameplay aspects right, it doesn’t offer anything new for the sci-fi or RPG genres.

Impressions: Starfield’s sheer scale is already giving me vertigo


Despite the gripes I’ve mentioned above, I’ve still found it startlingly easy to fall deep into Starfield’s (just-short-of-literal) galaxy of pure content. That fractal quest design pattern makes it very compelling to stretch out a play session for “just one more jump” until you look up and suddenly it’s three hours past when you planned to sleep.

I’m not sure if that loop will be strong enough to push me up to and past the 150-hour mark. One thing is clear, though; if we have to wait another eight years for a Fallout 4-scale single-player adventure from Bethesda Game Studios, Starfield has enough raw content to keep a certain type of space-fiction-obsessed player plugging away for a good chunk of that wait.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,584
26,704
The Misty Mountains
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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,584
26,704
The Misty Mountains
I'm playing in four hours since I got Premium Edition. Hoping it works on my Steam Deck. Portable Starfield would be a game changer

I watched the first couple of minutes of the video, yep, it looks FREAKING AMAZING. And the narrator mentioned Bethesda naysayers which made me laugh because F4 had it‘s share of naysayers and critics. :D DAMN IT, this game is calling me even at $70…😳 The real question is will I be able to stick to my guns and finish Skyrim SE before being sucked into this…I mean is there a rush? I need to give it time for all the guides to be written. 😉

Oh wait, I preordered the CP2077 phantom Liberty DLC. I’ll do that first! :)
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,584
26,704
The Misty Mountains
The first reviews for Starfield are coming out

Bethesda did it. They delivered.





Surprisingly, this is the most stable Bethesda RPG they ever released. That extra year delay plus Microsoft's budget did wonders. It's the ultimate space exploration fantasy with so much to do and see, some saying it may be too much to do and see


Well Premium Edition owners, we only have EIGHT MORE HOURS!

Hype.gif


Cue the Sir Elton John! Xbox is back baby!

I actually knew people in Fallout 4 who basically just played the main quest and they were done which kind of blew my mind. That video says 60 hours to complete the main quest…
 
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salamanderjuice

macrumors 6502a
Feb 28, 2020
527
570
I actually knew people in Fallout 4 who basically just played the main quest and they were done which kind of blew my mind. That video says 60 hours to complete the main quest…
I did that with Skyrim. Did not really click with me. Felt like a watered down Oblivion.
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
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I did that with Skyrim. Did not really click with me. Felt like a watered down Oblivion.
Very, very much the same with me. Loved Oblivion so much. Yawned my way through Skyrim.

I have watched a couple of video reviews now and heard from a couple of my friends though that have been playing the Early Access version all day long and I think I'm pretty much convinced and will play it on GamePass on the 6th. No real reason not to--I need to see this.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,627
43,626
GamerNexus did a GPU benchmark on Starfield and I found it interesting


Screen grab, my lowly 2060 was only achieving 37 FPS on medium, where as I'm hoping the soon to be released RX 7800XT would be close to what we see with the RTX 4070's 80 FPS on High settings (which was shown earlier in the YT and not seen here)
1693648838280.png
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,584
26,704
The Misty Mountains
I did that with Skyrim. Did not really click with me. Felt like a watered down Oblivion.
Understood a game either clicks for you or it doesn’t. For me and Bethesda, it’s been a long wonderful ride. Oblivion was my first so it was special. Skyrim is just as good, in some ways better due to the dynamics of a civil war and the Dragonborn story line. The immersion because of the sights, the environment, voice acting, and especially the music is fantastic, I feel like I’m in a Lord of the Rings movie. In the realm of dungeon crawling, it’s got incredibly good dungeons. And Fallout 4 is even better in a different way because of its story and intertwined faction relationships, no dungeons, but buildings that function something like dungeons with tactical combat. Not asking you to agree. :D

I’m really looking forward to Starfield.
 

Mackilroy

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2006
3,937
641
I bought Starfield and have played it for a few hours. This is a game that would really benefit from having DLSS3 available; while I usually stay above 60 FPS, and frequently above 100, there are occasional dips below 60, and occasionally the frame timing is janky. Overall it's fun so far. Going from world to world reminds me a bit of both the first Mass Effect, and also of the KoTOR games.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,171
2,484
OBX
Apparently 3060 fails to maintain 60 fps at 1080 on low. Around 30 fps at 1080 high.


Yeah a bunch of outlets show that AMD hardware is punching above its weight. The game is also CPU and memory timing sensitive in the city areas.
 
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