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bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
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2,146
Lard
I've got a 2022 iPhone SE with the same iPhone 13 Pro SoC and haven't noticed any slowdown with iOS 17.2.1, but out of 256 GB, I still have 84.22 GB available. Perhaps, it's the available storage percentage.

The price of all phones has become higher. Trying to keep the same price points has caused phones not to be updated with newer technology. When the first iPhone hit US$999, I was a bit shocked, and then, I remembered that my Motorola StarTac was originally US$1599 and I got it for US$9.99.
 
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michaelscarn

macrumors member
May 25, 2021
69
120
Apple sells the 13 and 14 for this reason. These are perfectly good phones that will receive security updates for years to come.
 

janeauburn

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2015
1,298
2,206
I mean it is, but too expensive lol. $1800 for 1TB and a case, I already have my 512 at around 40 gigs left.

The price really has gotten insane.

I remember not too long ago thinking $1K was a critical barrier. Apple blew right through that quickly and next year will undoubtedly crack the $2K mark per unit with ease.
 

Christopher Kim

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2016
704
665
While cost has creeped up, iPhone are basically all-in-one computers that we take with us everywhere (w/ screen!), so there's a rosier perspective that they're still "cheap" for a computer! (Only half-joking!)

It also helps that as the iPhone has matured, yearly upgrades don't make sense for the vast majority of ppl, and we're well into every 2-yr / 3-yr for even the most tech-loving enthusiasts. Doubling (or tripling) the time between having to buy a new one, plus adding the fact that used iPhones hold their value incredibly well especially when well-taken care of (way better than Android phones), it's a cost I've accepted makes sense to pay.

Agree with others though that:
- If you buy the higher storage versions, the "value" proposition gets exponentially worse. Someone getting the $999 base 128gb 15 Pro vs $1499 1TB version is paying 33% less (or conversely, the one who needs 1TB is paying 50% more!). I'm fortunately one of those who's fine with the 128gb version, as I really don't need much storage, and have the 2TB iCloud plan that I share with my wife
- If you think about it a monthly basis, for how often we use our phones now and the "it's a computer!" perspective, the "monthly cost" is quite low... I've also loved the Apple Card Monthly Installment plan where you get 0% interest for 24 months. I've basically also put the full cash cost into a savings account (for the last year I've used the Apple Savings Account), and then just draw from there the $40-50/month ACMI payment)
 

Warped9

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2018
1,677
2,304
Brockville, Ontario.
While cost has creeped up, iPhone are basically all-in-one computers that we take with us everywhere…
True. It‘s really not just a phone.

If you think about it a monthly basis, for how often we use our phones now and the "it's a computer!" perspective, the "monthly cost" is quite low...
Also true. If I divide the retail cost of my iPhone 14 over five years (taxes included) it costs me $20/mth. Over four years it’s 25/mth. If I base it on the promotional price I got it for it’s $15/mth over five years or $18/mth over four years.

All depends on how long I end up keeping it, but looked at in that way it doesn’t cost that much.
 
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Al Rukh

macrumors 65816
Nov 15, 2017
1,148
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The price really has gotten insane.

I remember not too long ago thinking $1K was a critical barrier. Apple blew right through that quickly and next year will undoubtedly crack the $2K mark per unit with ease.

And people will still buy it without whining and moaning. The following year other OEMs will follow suit because everyone wants to make money off us. Ultimately we need to justify only to ourselves if a purchase makes sense or not.
 
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Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
893
1,932
What the heck are people filling a 512gb iPhone with to have 40gb of storage left?! I know Prores video eats it up but surely these are offloaded to a computer?

I consider myself a heavy iPhone user with dozens of games and yet a 128gb does the job. Offloaded photos and iTunes Match saves a ton of space.

I also am on an iPhone 13 on the latest OS and I have zero lag at all.
 

Ctrlos

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2022
893
1,932
And people will still buy it without whining and moaning. The following year other OEMs will follow suit because everyone wants to make money off us. Ultimately we need to justify only to ourselves if a purchase makes sense or not.
Perhaps at the top, but this year the iPhone 15 inherited the punch-hole and the already-great A16, gained a 2x lossless zoom and USB-C. iOS animations are largely smooth enough to offset any loss of VRR.

My point is that the case for upgrading to the Pro models this year has gotten a lot smaller. And compared to last years' models launch prices you're losing an extra 1x zoom and VRR for a $200 saving. But you're also gaining USB-C and a lighter chassis.

In other words the iPhone 15 and 15+ are probably the best value iPhones in years.
 
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Al Rukh

macrumors 65816
Nov 15, 2017
1,148
1,277
Perhaps at the top, but this year the iPhone 15 inherited the punch-hole and the already-great A16, gained a 2x lossless zoom and USB-C. iOS animations are largely smooth enough to offset any loss of VRR.

My point is that the case for upgrading to the Pro models this year has gotten a lot smaller. And compared to last years' models launch prices you're losing an extra 1x zoom and VRR for a $200 saving. But you're also gaining USB-C and a lighter chassis.

In other words the iPhone 15 and 15+ are probably the best value iPhones in years.

I agree. The base 15 models are solid upgrades, even from the 14. Previous years I felt the base models are watered down versions of their Pro counterparts. However the 15 stands on its own as the best value iPhone since the 11 for me.
 

geta

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2010
1,526
1,266
The Moon
True. It‘s really not just a phone.


Also true. If I divide the retail cost of my iPhone 14 over five years (taxes included) it costs me $20/mth. Over four years it’s 25/mth. If I base it on the promotional price I got it for it’s $15/mth over five years or $18/mth over four years.

All depends on how long I end up keeping it, but looked at in that way it doesn’t cost that much.
Indeed, but it doesn’t mean its not expensive.

What the heck are people filling a 512gb iPhone with to have 40gb of storage left?! I know Prores video eats it up but surely these are offloaded to a computer?

I consider myself a heavy iPhone user with dozens of games and yet a 128gb does the job. Offloaded photos and iTunes Match saves a ton of space.

I also am on an iPhone 13 on the latest OS and I have zero lag at all.
Hundreds if not thousands of pictures and videos, and endless useless apps.
 

Rychiar

macrumors 68030
May 16, 2006
2,604
5,724
Waterbury, CT
I mean it is, but too expensive lol. $1800 for 1TB and a case, I already have my 512 at around 40 gigs left.

a 13 Pro Max with 17.2.1 is simply too laggy (feel like the "not athorized underclocking" fiasco all over again).

I think the last time you could hold an iphone for 3 years and still feel "like in day one" was the 5/5S era.

I experienced the very same story with 6S Plus, too lagy after the 2.5 year mark, XS Max even a bit worse. Then the 13 exactly the same. It's always funny how "amazingly fast" the new model feels when you buy it.

Battery health 88%.

Don't get me wrong, still the best phone in the world since 2007. I would tinker with Symbian S60 just to install an mp3 player on a 6600 so kids these days have absolutely no clue how much they take the iPhone quality for granted.

Yet, even so. If it was 10 times worse than Android, the app quality alone makes it a better purchase than a Samsung.

Bottom line, I am going to keep this phone until it does not support the latest software, like a 6S in 2023 sort of experience.

That money can be better spent on a Studio Display or even a macbook than thrown at a phone and boy we're not even discussing the EU prices.
What kind of lemons are you buying? Every iPhone up until the 7 fell to **** within 2-3 years and i was excited to get a new one cus it was so much faster. Ever since 7 they’ve all felt fast. My 13 pro max didnt really feel any dif than my XS in use and my 15 pro max doesn’t really feel any dif than my 13 pro max… the only reason I’d say they’re not worth the high prices anymore is cus my 15 honestly doesn’t feel any different than my 13. It’s like the same phone with a better zoom camera… and i ould never pay for upgraded memory. who needs 1TB on a phone. Most stuff is in the cloud these days anyways.
 
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geta

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2010
1,526
1,266
The Moon
Why not offload them to iCloud and just keep local thumbnails. Do you need 24 hour access to every file?
I don't use iCloud or other cloud services of any kind, and im not keeping thousands of pictures, videos and apps on my phone… instead, once in awhile im transferring them to my Mac. Also iPhone with 128GB storage is more then enough for my needs. ;)

Maybe someone that keep these amount of files on their phone can answer you…
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,334
24,081
Gotta be in it to win it
What kind of lemons are you buying? Every iPhone up until the 7 fell to **** within 2-3 years and i was excited to get a new one cus it was so much faster. Ever since 7 they’ve all felt fast. My 13 pro max didnt really feel any dif than my XS in use and my 15 pro max doesn’t really feel any dif than my 13 pro max… the only reason I’d say they’re not worth the high prices anymore is cus my 15 honestly doesn’t feel any different than my 13. It’s like the same phone with a better zoom camera… and i ould never pay for upgraded memory. who needs 1TB on a phone. Most stuff is in the cloud these days anyways.
My 15PM feels much faster than my XS Max. Even though I didn't think the Max was laggy on 17.2.1, the Max in retrospect felt like a lag fest compared to the speed of my 15PM.
 

joshwithachance

macrumors 68020
Dec 11, 2009
2,020
1,005
In a world where $1800 foldables are becoming commonplace and Samsung's flagships are in the same exact price range as Apple's, I still think the iPhone (even Pro Max series) is well worth it personally.
 
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Rychiar

macrumors 68030
May 16, 2006
2,604
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My 15PM feels much faster than my XS Max. Even though I didn't think the Max was laggy on 17.2.1, the Max in retrospect felt like a lag fest compared to the speed of my 15PM.
Phones to me have just plateaued . I feel no speed differences. But i also don’t game on them anymore at all
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,334
24,081
Gotta be in it to win it
Phones to me have just plateaued . I feel no speed differences. But i also don’t game on them anymore at all
I guess it depends on your use case. For example, people who use their phones almost exclusively to text, check facebook and emails almost any phone in the last several years would suffice. But if you are a photographer or gamer (I know you said you weren't) advancements in phone tech clearly show phone hardware, objectively continues to move forward.

As I said above, there is a big difference between my 15PM and my old XS Max. If all I did was check facebook or respond to emails, I wouldn't have upgraded either.
 
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Andain

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 17, 2021
27
39
What kind of lemons are you buying? Every iPhone up until the 7 fell to **** within 2-3 years and i was excited to get a new one cus it was so much faster. Ever since 7 they’ve all felt fast. My 13 pro max didnt really feel any dif than my XS in use and my 15 pro max doesn’t really feel any dif than my 13 pro max… the only reason I’d say they’re not worth the high prices anymore is cus my 15 honestly doesn’t feel any different than my 13. It’s like the same phone with a better zoom camera… and i ould never pay for upgraded memory. who needs 1TB on a phone. Most stuff is in the cloud these days anyways.
I was thinking the same, but I noticed this with friends also. My friend was texting me right before NYE that his 13PM keyboard was terribly laggy after some iOS 17 update.

It's just that I sincerely do not believe I can be "just unlucky" for 8 years in a row. Also, "big youtubers" were complaining about iOS decay/lag/hiccups since circa 2016. One could they say they are just writing clickbait to generate ad revenue, but even so ...

I think the hardware is great but iOS needs a lot of polishing. Sonoma moves very nice on my M1 Pro for (advanced) basic usage.

Cloud is out of question, as I mentioned in early posts I got tired of it. Better said, I got tired of renting, or things buffering, music disappearing, lag, spammy ads, some overnight EU policy. As someone said on this forum, the cloud does not exist, you are just renting someone else's computer. Also, financially speaking, the $10-20/months ads up after 1-2 years precisely to the same price if you just outright bought the 512-1TB model.

Whatever "cloud usage" I would need is all freely available on Google Docs et all for work/school.

According to my storage section, I have 250gb of (lossless) music, under 60gigs of photo/video, youtube and youtube music downloads (sometimes I download video podcasts to watch/study later) together at ~45gb (so I guess you can say music 300 gigs of music), messages attachments 16gb (Apple REALLY needs to enable a feature to mass delete attachments like yesterday) , Telegram for whatever reason is 9gb and the rest just apps. At the very bottom it says iOS and System Data 16gb. 227 apps, but just daily stuff, travelling, banking, email, office etc.

Ever since I joined the iPhone with the 4 back in 2011, I have never ever closed apps, restarted (unless the phone froze/restarted itself/iOS updates), I never had to adjust my behavior to have the phone work. IMO, that's the point of having an iPhone.
 

Rychiar

macrumors 68030
May 16, 2006
2,604
5,724
Waterbury, CT
I’ve just never seen my phones lag outside of an occasional software glitch for whatever reason that quickly goes awat, the overall experience is very smooth unlike the old days. my 10s had 64gb, my 13pm had 128 and my 15 has 256 which feels like ill never fill it. I dump my photos monthly though so i can orangish them on the computer and delete stuff. Music is all Apple Music these days so nothing local. Those are Really it for what eats space aside from apps. Facebook occasionally gets huge and needs to be deleted and of course messages gets huge if you send a lot of videos to people. I only pay 42.99 for iCloud and that’s enough for anyting else. Its main so so i can have 5 cameras
 

Andain

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 17, 2021
27
39
To each their own and fair enough.

Most of my music is not found on mainstream streaming services anyway (oldschool DJ mixes pre streaming era, also alternative music), just yesterday a new 2023 mix was changed from mixcut to unmixed (on YT music). So annoying..

A large storage is not just about "pointless spending/arrogance". It gives you a particular peace of mind and eliminates the low storage anxiety. It gives this unique "my vault" feeling where you can access all your important stuff at any time. Makes your phone/computer more "personal" if that makes sense. On the mac side, yeah, anything past 2TB is highway robbery with Apple.
My next iPhone will certainly have 1TB.

Yes, once every 2 months or so I connect my phone to the computer to sync my photo/video library, delete the not so important stuff. But storage on iPhone has been (for me) the most worth it purchase.
 

seggy

macrumors 6502
Feb 13, 2016
391
265
I was thinking the same, but I noticed this with friends also. My friend was texting me right before NYE that his 13PM keyboard was terribly laggy after some iOS 17 update.

It's just that I sincerely do not believe I can be "just unlucky" for 8 years in a row. Also, "big youtubers" were complaining about iOS decay/lag/hiccups since circa 2016. One could they say they are just writing clickbait to generate ad revenue, but even so ...

I think the hardware is great but iOS needs a lot of polishing. Sonoma moves very nice on my M1 Pro for (advanced) basic usage.

Cloud is out of question, as I mentioned in early posts I got tired of it. Better said, I got tired of renting, or things buffering, music disappearing, lag, spammy ads, some overnight EU policy. As someone said on this forum, the cloud does not exist, you are just renting someone else's computer. Also, financially speaking, the $10-20/months ads up after 1-2 years precisely to the same price if you just outright bought the 512-1TB model.

Whatever "cloud usage" I would need is all freely available on Google Docs et all for work/school.

According to my storage section, I have 250gb of (lossless) music, under 60gigs of photo/video, youtube and youtube music downloads (sometimes I download video podcasts to watch/study later) together at ~45gb (so I guess you can say music 300 gigs of music), messages attachments 16gb (Apple REALLY needs to enable a feature to mass delete attachments like yesterday) , Telegram for whatever reason is 9gb and the rest just apps. At the very bottom it says iOS and System Data 16gb. 227 apps, but just daily stuff, travelling, banking, email, office etc.

Ever since I joined the iPhone with the 4 back in 2011, I have never ever closed apps, restarted (unless the phone froze/restarted itself/iOS updates), I never had to adjust my behavior to have the phone work. IMO, that's the point of having an iPhone.

Some (if not most) of these arguments are kinda silly.

People's usage / the nature/weight of apps changes over time and that is just as likely to have an impact as whatever Apple undoubtedly does (but now they've been stung by the suit, almost certainly no longer in the same way).

Expecting to never optimise the use of a phone during its lifetime and saying 'this sux' when it doesn't behave in an optimised manner is silly. Especially as how you use a smartphone since the iPhone 4 has drastically changed, even if you consider yourself a light user.

Having 250gb of lossless music on a platform that you'll be primarily using in areas with ambient noise even with a pair of highly isolating phones (which I'm betting there is a reasonable chance you don't have) is silly. Even sillier if you use BT phones on an iPhone - since your only option with even the best headphones available is lossy AAC transmission, as opposed to Android.

OK, so it's someone else's (much more consistent than whatever you can scrape together) computer. If you're determined to self-host, plenty of solutions are available so that a) you don't need to lug 250gb of media around and b) it can be transcoded on the fly and delivered at a sensible bitrate for mobile consumption (or even if you're sticking with lossless, can be delivered on a file-by-file basis or selectively synced and not having to hold the entire library).

Actually now I've written the entire post, all of these arguments are kinda silly.
 
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Jason J. Schneider

macrumors member
Oct 14, 2022
50
109
Athina, Attica
It all depends on how much crap you've installed over the years. It's a computer after all and cannot work like magic after you've installed every crappy little thing from the App Store.
 

Andain

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 17, 2021
27
39
Some (if not most) of these arguments are kinda silly.

People's usage / the nature/weight of apps changes over time and that is just as likely to have an impact as whatever Apple undoubtedly does (but now they've been stung by the suit, almost certainly no longer in the same way).

Expecting to never optimise the use of a phone during its lifetime and saying 'this sux' when it doesn't behave in an optimised manner is silly. Especially as how you use a smartphone since the iPhone 4 has drastically changed, even if you consider yourself a light user.

Having 250gb of lossless music on a platform that you'll be primarily using in areas with ambient noise even with a pair of highly isolating phones (which I'm betting there is a reasonable chance you don't have) is silly. Even sillier if you use BT phones on an iPhone - since your only option with even the best headphones available is lossy AAC transmission, as opposed to Android.

OK, so it's someone else's (much more consistent than whatever you can scrape together) computer. If you're determined to self-host, plenty of solutions are available so that a) you don't need to lug 250gb of media around and b) it can be transcoded on the fly and delivered at a sensible bitrate for mobile consumption (or even if you're sticking with lossless, can be delivered on a file-by-file basis or selectively synced and not having to hold the entire library).

Actually now I've written the entire post, all of these arguments are kinda silly.

I can understand where you're coming from, but (no offence) most likely you are not a music enthusiast (and there is nothing wrong with that). If you are listening to some Taylor Swifty radio music, hell.. you don't even need 128kbps mp3 to enjoy that.
Half of the times I listen to my music through (wired) CarPlay. A friend of mine was playing some tracks he was working on, I was blown away by how much of a difference it made. It felt like I upgraded my car stereo (Bose, so entry level), it felt like it came to life.

Cloud is simply an inferior product for me, but again, I can somewhat I understand where you are coming from. The culture in the last 10 years has changed so much in media, that Cloud is the new de-facto. I get it, I also had cloud, actually at some point I had around $150 worth of subscriptions per month. That's when I stopped.

You are technically 100% regarding streaming lossless over wireless, personally I still feel a "20%" on my AirPods Max and other Sennheiser headphones. Lossless streaming will be arriving within 2-3 years in the mainstream anyway.

I also come from the iPod era, again, the feeling of having your music with you at all times no matter where you are, I can see how it cannot be understood if you are 19 and you grew up with Spotify algorythm playlists (not saying you are). And as I have said many times already in this thread, _my experience_ of using streaming for music/leisure is a laggy, buffering, music disappearing mess.
Subscriptions in general same thing (let's say PlayStation), paying for something, hoping it will not disappear/taken away is (at the end of the day) a mental hassle I simply do not want to deal with, let alone pay for it.
The business model (and the T&Cs) have changed so much in the last few years it is totally unpredictable.

Ever since last year, everything that I pay for, I own/buy. It may appear you are paying more upfront but you are saving in the long run.

Paying monthly for something that does not work as intended, now that is silly (to not say dumb).
What if Apple has a fart and your photos disappear over night (like Mobile Me or something).

I think cloud is great for work related stuff, for example I used to use iCloud Mail Drop a lot (not sure if that exists anymore), loved it. For things you actually care about/personal, your own storage is the way to go (plus regular back-ups).

And again, the 13 Pro Max had the same used storage when I purchased it and was blazing fast. There's just no excuse sorry.
 

Christopher Kim

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2016
704
665
Perhaps at the top, but this year the iPhone 15 inherited the punch-hole and the already-great A16, gained a 2x lossless zoom and USB-C. iOS animations are largely smooth enough to offset any loss of VRR.

My point is that the case for upgrading to the Pro models this year has gotten a lot smaller. And compared to last years' models launch prices you're losing an extra 1x zoom and VRR for a $200 saving. But you're also gaining USB-C and a lighter chassis.

In other words the iPhone 15 and 15+ are probably the best value iPhones in years.
Agreed - the 15 and 15 Plus are fantastic value this year. I am the go-to tech recommender / "advisor" among all my family and friends, and I've recommended the 15 or 15+ to a bunch of ppl so far, and they've loved it. The 15 Plus especially (now that the 15 Pro Max is a +$300 cost given you're forced to a 256gb) for those who want the bigger screen. Apple really upped the value prop of their non-Pro iPhones this generation, without a doubt.
 

seggy

macrumors 6502
Feb 13, 2016
391
265
I can understand where you're coming from, but (no offence) most likely you are not a music enthusiast (and there is nothing wrong with that). If you are listening to some Taylor Swifty radio music, hell.. you don't even need 128kbps mp3 to enjoy that

Let me steer you straight here as I snicker.

I own an Orpheus for starters. If you're familiar with Sennheiser products that might mean something to you. I also have that in many other areas of audio (and a HEAD I bought to argue with others). Are you sure you want to go down this route of condecension😉? I'd suggest reframing any future arguments based on what that might mean in terms of assumed knowledge as well as investment in sources and music.

Though I use Airpods/Pro often, if I actually decide I want to listen to music properly on the go I'll turn to the JH13 II's - that level of isolation actually starts to make portable lossless something other than placebo (for 16/44.1, let alone anything else), and that's when I'll turn to my jRMC-based self-hosting options to stream me an optimum compromise of my owned high-res music (because you don't necessarily want to store or stream 24/192 or DSD on a phone).

Half of the times I listen to my music through (wired) CarPlay. A friend of mine was playing some tracks he was working on, I was blown away by how much of a difference it made. It felt like I upgraded my car stereo (Bose, so entry level), it felt like it came to life.
Were you aware - for starters - it shifts the sampling rate to 48khz whatever you're putting through it?
Let the goalpost shifting begin.

I'm perfectly happy to casually listen to Carplay. Or even seriously. But I'm not under the impression it's anywhere near the best car audio experience you can have. It's just very convenient to use.

You know, just like sub services.

Cloud is simply an inferior product for me, but again, I can somewhat I understand where you are coming from. The culture in the last 10 years has changed so much in media, that Cloud is the new de-facto. I get it, I also had cloud, actually at some point I had around $150 worth of subscriptions per month. That's when I stopped.
That's a lot for audio based subs. I don't know what you were spending it on.

And as I have said many times already in this thread, _my experience_ of using streaming for music/leisure is a laggy, buffering, music disappearing mess.
Maybe you should be investing $150/month in better cellphone plans, not music in that case? It'll probably lead to benefits elsewhere as well.

Subscriptions in general same thing (let's say PlayStation), paying for something, hoping it will not disappear/taken away is (at the end of the day) a mental hassle I simply do not want to deal with, let alone pay for it.
The business model (and the T&Cs) have changed so much in the last few years it is totally unpredictable.
That's actually very true, which is why I have casual listening and what I could call my reference collection / pretentious stash as separate pools. Subs and owned (in many cases, natively high-res). There's no reason you can't mix the two, and even use the sub service as a sample-before-you-buy service.

Ever since last year, everything that I pay for, I own/buy. It may appear you are paying more upfront but you are saving in the long run.

Paying monthly for something that does not work as intended, now that is silly (to not say dumb).
What if Apple has a fart and your photos disappear over night (like Mobile Me or something).
I have noticed this weird opinion among the less technologically literate, in that people think cloud and backups are mutually exclusive. Your NAS can **** the bed (statistically, far more often). So can a single-source cloud. Back it up. It just happens to be a lot easier to do that with cloud, too - so that it actually gets done, wink wink.
 
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