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FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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What I said was the a12 and future generations don’t get “obliterated” by iOS updates.
Wait, you could’ve made this so much easier... you said there was no difference. I actually agree with that, and I’ve repeatedly said that newer devices are usable (unlike earlier devices), and I’d actually draw the line at A11 devices, which is when updates improved (the iPhone 7 on iOS 15 is unusable, the iPhone X on iOS 16 probably isn’t).
Beloved max is now history. All I have are fond memories of flawless performance.
You don’t have it anymore?
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
Wait, you could’ve made this so much easier... you said there was no difference.
Similar I would never claim to say no difference because that’s unprovable and I like being in your space of “obliteration”.Things are always not as they seem as for example lag and stuttering in the original release of ios 12.
I actually agree with that, and I’ve repeatedly said that newer devices are usable (unlike earlier devices), and I’d actually draw the line at A11 devices, which is when updates improved (the iPhone 7 on iOS 15 is unusable, the iPhone X on iOS 16 probably isn’t).
It’s more than usable, it’s fairly equivalent.
You don’t have it anymore?
Max went to apple heaven and replaced with 15pm.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
Well, so much for my request then. I’m happy for you though! You’ll get the correct iOS experience once again.
Well, so much for my request then. I’m happy for you though! You’ll get the correct iOS experience once again.
Yes I’ll get a better experience because the hardware is 5 years newer. But considering my max was 5 years old with a new battery I got an almost out of the box experience.
 

FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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Yes I’ll get a better experience because the hardware is 5 years newer. But considering my max was 5 years old with a new battery I got an almost out of the box experience.
You’ll get a similar experience to the one I get on my Xʀ on iOS 12: a flawless one.
 

Al Rukh

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 15, 2017
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I strongly believe that staying behind is the only solution, so I will keep recommending this to everyone regardless of the backlash I get from serial updaters and Apple apologists. It’s the best course of action and I want to help.

I appreciate your views and I do agree with you that if one wants the overall best performance on their iPhone (zippy and good battery life), then staying on the original iOS version that shipped with the generation of iPhone is a sound solution. I honestly do believe so.

I wanna take out new features in iOS releases out of my argument here. We are doing a lot on our iPhones today, than say 5-7 years ago. We make online payment, manage personal banking and finances and so on. So it’s only logical for us laymen to follow the experts’ instructions to update to the latest iOS for security reasons. Furthermore, let’s say if you have an issue with your iPhone and seek help from Apple Support, the first or second solution they provide you is to update your iPhone to the latest version or build of iOS and if you don’t, it’s hard to proceed. I believe they will update your software too if you replace your screen or battery with Apple, but I have no first hand experiences with this.
 

MacCheetah3

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,123
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Central MN
the iPhone X on iOS 16 probably isn’t
It’s okay to me. Some apps are very sluggish and crash when in background sometimes — namely, Amazon Music with the new dynamic background from album artwork effect that resembles Apple Music. However, that’s an app optimization (or lack thereof) problem, not an Apple/OS issue.

Quite frankly, I didn’t feel forced to ‘upgrade’. Instead, I concluded there are finally enough hardware improvements and additions that I’d actually notice a difference — and I have in more ways than one, for example:


Additionally, my iPhone X’s battery health is down to ~75%. But because I dropped the iPhone while cycling and the back has scuffs and cracks, Apple won’t replace the battery. I’m still keeping the X around as an extra/backup device, probably until the battery is practically useless.
 

FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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I may have a flawless experience with my iPhone 15PM, but some people clearly didn’t have a flawless experience on iOS 12 OOB.
They might not have, I can only speak for myself: the iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 is completely flawless, perhaps even smoother than my iPad Air 5 on its original iOS version, iPadOS 15.
 
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FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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I appreciate your views and I do agree with you that if one wants the overall best performance on their iPhone (zippy and good battery life), then staying on the original iOS version that shipped with the generation of iPhone is a sound solution. I honestly do believe so.

I wanna take out new features in iOS releases out of my argument here. We are doing a lot on our iPhones today, than say 5-7 years ago. We make online payment, manage personal banking and finances and so on. So it’s only logical for us laymen to follow the experts’ instructions to update to the latest iOS for security reasons. Furthermore, let’s say if you have an issue with your iPhone and seek help from Apple Support, the first or second solution they provide you is to update your iPhone to the latest version or build of iOS and if you don’t, it’s hard to proceed. I believe they will update your software too if you replace your screen or battery with Apple, but I have no first hand experiences with this.
I reckon the real-world implications of security are rather feeble. The main reason why people who stay behind eventually update is compatibility. Apps, devices, and websites all encounter issues if you’re outdated enough. I have never said that staying behind has no issues.

I know that it may be hard to tolerate or circumvent, so much so that people intent on staying behind oftentimes fail to do so simply because the circumstances overwhelm them... and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Apple support recommends updating regardless of the issue. The first question they ask, even if the solution is a settings toggle, is “which iOS version are you running? Outdated? Update”. I will come out and defend them here: if you refuse, they don’t press the issue and they try to help.

In spite of my persistent and harsh criticism about Apple forcing my 9.7-inch iPad Pro into iOS 12, I will praise them on this, too: they respect those of us who want to stay behind. They could very well refuse support, they could force every iOS device to be updated, and they could do a million other things. They don’t.

I think that with replacements you can request them to respect the iOS version installed, but don’t quote me on this. They may update devices if you don’t tell them anything, but I reckon that if you treat them well and politely ask them to keep the iOS version, it’ll be fine. I haven’t requested any battery replacements ever though, so I have no experience with this.
 
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FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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It’s okay to me. Some apps are very sluggish and crash when in background sometimes — namely, Amazon Music with the new dynamic background from album artwork effect that resembles Apple Music. However, that’s an app optimization (or lack thereof) problem, not an Apple/OS issue.

Quite frankly, I didn’t feel forced to ‘upgrade’. Instead, I concluded there are finally enough hardware improvements and additions that I’d actually notice a difference — and I have in more ways than one, for example:


Additionally, my iPhone X’s battery health is down to ~75%. But because I dropped the iPhone while cycling and the back has scuffs and cracks, Apple won’t replace the battery. I’m still keeping the X around as an extra/backup device, probably until the battery is practically useless.
I wonder whether you’d have those app issues on iOS 11. My Xʀ on iOS 12 has no app artifacts at all, and never has. I’m pretty sure iOS’ increased power consumption plays a part there.

Hardware improvements are definitely welcome, but I like to compare devices with regards to sheer improvements, instead of an inefficient, destroyed, updated iPhone to one that’s on its original iOS version. There you can see the true merits and improvements of the new device. Both devices looked at from the same perspective: with efficient software installed. In my experience, the smoothness difference is negligible.

My iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15 (with the blazing fast M1 chip on its original iOS version) is not smoother or otherwise better with everyday use than my iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12, which is equally not smoother than my iPhone 6s on iOS 10 (a phone which everyone would call slow, with poor battery life, and outdated). Well... from those three adjectives, only “outdated” applies. Using it is a complete pleasure (unlike my forcibly updated iPhone 6s on iOS 13, which is garbage).
 

FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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9.7-inch iPad Pro, iOS 9.3.4:

CC026537-CD0A-402A-B87B-0205E10132EC.png



9.7-inch iPad Pro, forcibly updated by Apple’s pathetic A9 activation bug on iOS 9 into iOS 12.4.1, and thereafter forced to stay on iOS 12 because they refuse to allow downgrading:
D0C823C7-88ED-455C-AEF9-A6807F7ACF28.png




Do I really need to say anything? I think I will let the screenshots speak for themselves. Same brightness, same settings, similar usage... in fact, usage on iOS 12 was lighter.

(Note the usage on the iOS 12 screenshot between 21:00-22:00, before unplugging. The actual screen-on time 100-28% was 8 hours, 4 minutes. Not 8 hours 52 minutes).
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
They might not have, I can only speak for myself: the iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 is completely flawless, perhaps even smoother than my iPad Air 5 on its original iOS version, iPadOS 15.
I don’t think any software product is flawless. It’s not a possibility in the realm of human existence. So you have something that you’re labeling at the pinnacle of perfection , while others are complaining about stutter and lag. I’m sure there are things that are not noticed. So I’m guessing your flawless is my very good.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,546
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I don’t think any software product is flawless. It’s not a possibility in the realm of human existence. So you have something that you’re labeling at the pinnacle of perfection , while others are complaining about stutter and lag. I’m sure there are things that are not noticed. So I’m guessing your flawless is my very good.
Any comment on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s very obvious, forced degradation due to Apple’s forced malware installation policy?
 

hunkydory

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2023
1
2
I reckon the real-world implications of security are rather feeble. The main reason why people who stay behind eventually update is compatibility. Apps, devices, and websites all encounter issues if you’re outdated enough. I have never said that staying behind has no issues.
Umm..I'm pretty sure I've been reading throughout the thread where you keep saying that it's flawless being on the original OS. Flawless = no issues.

I'll comment on your screen shots. I'll say they're not valid. You think they are, but they're not. The only way you can prove the huge discrepancy in battery usage is if you do the same exact things on both iOS versions. The screenshots show a whole mess of variables that aren't comparable. The only way it would be valid is if you were to play the same video on both for the same amount of time (to keep this very simple).

But now you can't even do that because like you said, you're on iOS 12. You can't revert. So basically you can't even prove that it severely hampers the experience. I'm with I7 on this one.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
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Gotta be in it to win it
Any comment on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s very obvious, forced degradation due to Apple’s forced malware installation policy?
Can you describe exactly the calculations to ensure it’s an “apples to apples” comparison and guarantee there are no bugs that would have these calculations scale differently? Because there’s nothing like comparing dissimilar metrics.
 
Last edited:

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
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Umm..I'm pretty sure I've been reading throughout the thread where you keep saying that it's flawless being on the original OS. Flawless = no issues.

I'll comment on your screen shots. I'll say they're not valid. You think they are, but they're not. The only way you can prove the huge discrepancy in battery usage is if you do the same exact things on both iOS versions. The screenshots show a whole mess of variables that aren't comparable. The only way it would be valid is if you were to play the same video on both for the same amount of time (to keep this very simple).

But now you can't even do that because like you said, you're on iOS 12. You can't revert. So basically you can't even prove that it severely hampers the experience. I'm with I7 on this one.
Nonsense. I’ve tried the lightest possible usage and it can’t even match heavier usage on iOS 9.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
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Can you describe exactly the calculations to ensure it’s an “apples to apples” comparison and guarantee there are no bugs that would have these calculations scale differently? Because there’s nothing like comparing dissimilar metrics.
The usage on iOS 9 was heavier.
 

Al Rukh

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 15, 2017
1,143
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9.7-inch iPad Pro, iOS 9.3.4:

View attachment 2326122


9.7-inch iPad Pro, forcibly updated by Apple’s pathetic A9 activation bug on iOS 9 into iOS 12.4.1, and thereafter forced to stay on iOS 12 because they refuse to allow downgrading:
View attachment 2326123



Do I really need to say anything? I think I will let the screenshots speak for themselves. Same brightness, same settings, similar usage... in fact, usage on iOS 12 was lighter.

(Note the usage on the iOS 12 screenshot between 21:00-22:00, before unplugging. The actual screen-on time 100-28% was 8 hours, 4 minutes. Not 8 hours 52 minutes).

Thanks for sharing. What do you mean by the A9 activation bug?
 

Al Rukh

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 15, 2017
1,143
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I’ve somewhat been following FeliApple’s and I7guy’s back and forth arguments.

My take, if anyone bothers to know (hah), is I wish Apple would provide optional upgrades to the latest iOS versions while also providing security updates on say the previous 2-3 iOS versions. For example, I don’t have to update to iOS 17 on my 13 Pro Max to get security patches. I would like to maintain iOS 15 while having the same security fixes iOS 17 users get. That’s how my ideal world looks like.

In my opinion, the newest iOSes aren’t always better than the previous ones. For example, iOS 14 is not greater or better than a stable iOS 13 version.

I mean iOS 17 is very stable now and I’m just afraid we will take 10 step backwards when iOS 18 comes out.
 
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FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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Thanks for sharing. What do you mean by the A9 activation bug?
Here’s a thread on MacRumors: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-6s-with-ios-9-3-3-suddenly-requires-activation.2222823/

Here’s a YouTube video:

Long story short, all A9 devices (the iPhone 6s, 6s Plus, 1st-gen iPhone SE, 9.7-inch iPad Pro, and the 12.9-inch iPad Pro (1st-gen)) on iOS 9 are rebooted and sent to the activation screen, from where it won’t let you proceed unless you update.

This is specific to those A9 devices on iOS 9. No other processor or iOS version is affected. The iPhone 6 on iOS 8? Fine. The iPhone 5s on iOS 7? Totally usable. A9 on iOS 9 only. Nobody knows why it happens, but Apple seemingly blocked these devices from running, has NEVER spoken about the issue, and support has no idea this is happening. It started somewhere in 2018 (I think), and it has never been fixed.

The sad part is, since Apple won’t allow you to install whatever iOS version you like, in order to use these devices you have to update to the latest version. I want to be extremely clear about the situation: I was reading a newspaper in Safari. The device rebooted on its own, on September 16th, 2019, at 17:15 GMT, and...

I like to take screenshots of things like these, here’s what I saw on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro, which was then running iOS 9.3.4 when this happened:
096335D4-BC90-4AE5-82BA-B4A3CAD99041.png





I tried everything I could back then. I tried to hack my iPad with a tool from the jailbreak community, I tried every single little thing I could try online before eventually giving up and updating. This was my only iPad back then, and I’ve always been a heavy, enthusiastic user. I couldn’t throw it in a drawer until somebody came up with a fix, so I updated. The screenshots that are in the comment you replied to show the result of that.

Apple literally forced me to update, forced me to update to a version I didn’t want to update, and all I have to show for it is sporadic keyboard lag and almost 4 hours less battery life.

This iPad would still be running iOS 9.3.4 if Apple hadn’t screwed up like this.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
[…]

My iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15 (with the blazing fast M1 chip on its original iOS version) is not smoother or otherwise better with everyday use than my iPhone Xʀ on iOS […]
And a Ferrari is not any faster than a lawn mower in heavy stop and go traffic.

The point is if you are doing actions that are otherwise cpu constrained, like opening the settings app, sure both devices look identical as the animations are the constraint factor. But go on something else which requires real cpu horsepower( and use multitasking on the iPad) there will be a difference.
 

FeliApple

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Apr 8, 2015
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And a Ferrari is not any faster than a lawn mower in heavy stop and go traffic.

The point is if you are doing actions that are otherwise cpu constrained, like opening the settings app, sure both devices look identical as the animations are the constraint factor. But go on something else which requires real cpu horsepower( and use multitasking on the iPad) there will be a difference.
Absolutely, but in my experience with obliterated devices thanks to iOS updates, the performance aspects I notice the most are those: slowness in simple tasks, like animations, the keyboard, etc. Those artifacts are, at least for me, the most annoying, and I've repeatedly seen people mention those when complaining about updates.
 
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I7guy

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Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
Absolutely, but in my experience with obliterated devices thanks to iOS updates, the performance aspects I notice the most are those: slowness in simple tasks, like animations, the keyboard, etc. Those artifacts are, at least for me, the most annoying, and I've repeatedly seen people mention those when complaining about updates.
You’re conflating thoughts. Apple, in my experience, does try to make the user experience across iOS devices as consistent as possible. Comparing the xr to the m1 in the way you did is about the user experience, not about raw cpu horsepower of which the m1 obliterates the a12.

I agree as far as 32 bit obliterated devices go, but non-obliterated devices such as the a12 there are varied experiences across the board, and I’m sure as you know one persons experience may not be another. (As an example the people complaining about stutter and lag on iOS 12, of which you said it was “flawless”)

Not all people “complain” in online forums. Some people don’t care to complain and other people either may not have an issue and yet still others may have an issue but not notice they do. All sorts of variations that a conclusion cannot be drawn from.
 
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