Other The myth of Apple intentionally slowing down older iPhones…

[FeliApple]

I'll give you this, you're steadfast in your consistent, unprovable and sometimes ridiculous claims about battery life, performance etc.

My claims are real, thank you.

Making outlandish claims is easy when they really can't be measured accurately or require some mathematical gymnastics to determine performance. Or when you get facts incorrect, such as iphone 13 pro max rated for 28 hours of SOT. Can you show that on the apple website?

“Facts incorrect”. My facts are correct, thank you

Here you go: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP848?locale=en_US
Go to “Power and Battery”, of course.

When you start customizing your usage of a phone to keep within the parameters of an aging battery, I don't understand the amount of brain power involved in such an exercise. Update and get a new battery as I have on my Max. It will basically make your phone operate as if it just came out of the box.

I don’t customize anything, ever. That is exactly my point: battery health is irrelevant if the device isn’t updated. I’ve always stated this, and unlike many who blindly defend iOS updates and upgrade every year (not your case, although you inexplicably and incorrectly deny this), I use devices for years and years on original iOS versions with no issues whatsoever as far as battery life goes, again, regardless of battery health.

“Update and get a new battery, it will make your phone operate as if it were new” is simply and completely incorrect. If the phone is sufficiently updated so as to severely impact battery life, a battery replacement will help, but it will never match the original iOS version. Depending on the device and usage, it will probably make it usable again, but that’s as far as my optimism goes. I know it won’t match the original iOS version.

"IOS 12 on an a12 had no issues" - it took 1 minute to debunk this myth and that is what happens when generalized statements are made. I understand you had no issues on ios 12 out of the box and great for you. Others weren't so fortunate.

4 years of iOS 12 on my Xʀ, flawless. Nothing else to say. I notice these things. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s performance is almost perfect. Almost, because it isn’t.

You have to keep in mind that I’m used to original, flawless iOS versions. When my devices deviate from that, I notice.

You haven't acknowledged that one youtube video I posted whereby an xs max was updated showed no statistical loss of performance because it would shoot holes in your incorrect opinions.

I did not see it. Where is it?

I did some research and this conversation has had a number of fallacies associated with the discussion on all sides - here for your amusement is how this discussion has gone:

1. logical fallacies
2. bandwagon fallacies
3. false dilemma fallacy
4. hasty generalization fallacy
5. anecdotal evidence fallacy
6. texas sharpshooter fallacy
7. personal incredulity fallacy

But it's all good I don't want you to stop promulgating your disbeliefs - this is the internet after all.

Very funny.

 

[I7guy]

My claims are real, thank you.

Yes, they are just as real as mine.

“Facts incorrect”. My facts are correct, thank you

Here you go: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP848?locale=en_US
Go to “Power and Battery”, of course.

Well I admit I looked at the iphone 13 not the PM. However, that 28 hours refers to downloaded videos. The reality is if people are watching the video providers (youtube, netflix, amazon etc), they are probably streamed - which means 25 hours; and that is the same across the board for the iphone 14pm and iphone 15pm. I can guarantee you, my new iphone 15PM will not get 28 hours, not even 25 hours the way I use phone. If I get a full day, which is 8 hours, I'll be a happy camper.

I don’t customize anything, ever. That is exactly my point: battery health is irrelevant if the device isn’t updated.

No because you do not have the functionality of an updated operating system, which means you are working with a functionally less environment overall.

I’ve always stated this, and unlike many who blindly defend iOS updates and upgrade every year (not your case, although you inexplicably and incorrectly deny this), I use devices for years and years on original iOS versions with no issues whatsoever as far as battery life goes, again, regardless of battery health.

Yes, because the operating systems do less, have vulnerabilities etc (which is a side issue)

“Update and get a new battery, it will make your phone operate as if it were new” is simply and completely incorrect.

Youtube disagrees. I've posted a video busting this myth, but it is ignored.

If the phone is sufficiently updated so as to severely impact battery life, a battery replacement will help, but it will never match the original iOS version. Depending on the device and usage, it will probably make it usable again, but that’s as far as my optimism goes. I know it won’t match the original iOS version.

Again it depends on the degradation, which depends on the use case. It doesn't matter how good the battery life is at release using a phone in adverse conditions, which many do is antithetical to "good" battery life.

4 years of iOS 12 on my Xʀ, flawless. Nothing else to say. I notice these things. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s performance is almost perfect. Almost, because it isn’t.

You have to keep in mind that I’m used to original, flawless iOS versions. When my devices deviate from that, I notice.

I did not see it. Where is it?

I'm not going back to search for it, what's posted is posted.

Very funny.

Yep.

 

[FeliApple]

Yes, they are just as real as mine.

With the very slight difference that yours are false.

Well I admit I looked at the iphone 13 not the PM. However, that 28 hours refers to downloaded videos. The reality is if people are watching the video providers (youtube, netflix, amazon etc), they are probably streamed - which means 25 hours; and that is the same across the board for the iphone 14pm and iphone 15pm. I can guarantee you, my new iphone 15PM will not get 28 hours, not even 25 hours the way I use phone. If I get a full day, which is 8 hours, I'll be a happy camper.

View attachment 2325130

It’s very difficult to achieve 28 hours. It requires efficient settings and light use. That I agree with. But like I often tell you: you must be a very heavy user if your expectations are a mere 8 hours on a Pro Max on its original iOS version.

No because you do not have the functionality of an updated operating system, which means you are working with a functionally less environment overall.

Sure, that has nothing to do with what I said... or battery life for that matter. I’ve never said that staying behind has no drawbacks.

Yes, because the operating systems do less, have vulnerabilities etc (which is a side issue)

Again, I never said staying behind has no drawbacks.

Youtube disagrees. I've posted a video busting this myth, but it is ignored.

I missed it. Unintentionally, of course.

Again it depends on the degradation, which depends on the use case. It doesn't matter how good the battery life is at release using a phone in adverse conditions, which many do is antithetical to "good" battery life.

I will include a PD after this which will reply to this.

I'm not going back to search for it, what's posted is posted.

Alright, but don’t say I keep ignoring it, then.


PD: Correct me if my assumption is incorrect, but I think I know why you think like this. The only explanation I can muster based on what you’ve posted is that you are a very heavy user in terms of settings, brightness, and usage. Like I have repeatedly stated, iOS devices haven’t been - and still aren’t - good in terms of battery life regardless of the iOS version if usage is heavy enough. That’s why you keep saying “but my Xs Max was bad both on iOS 12 and 17”. iOS 12 is a lot better, but you won’t get good battery life if you’re a very heavy user on either version.

Remember that example I posted of a user getting 4 hours on a 1st-gen iPad Pro on iOS 9? I think that’s you. You are a heavy user who gets very poor battery life on every device due to sheer load, and that blurs the line between iOS versions. Not because there is no difference, the difference is very obvious, but because battery life is very poor on any iOS version if you use the device heavily enough. That 1st-gen iPad Pro user would probably get 2 hours on iPadOS 16, but they’d say what you say: “battery life was poor on iOS 9 too”. It was twice as good actually, but it’s way more noticeable if you go from 14 hours to 7, than if you go from 4 hours to 2.

Why am I speculating? Because you refuse to post a screenshot. But if you did, I think the data would be very clear.

So do confirm, are you a heavy user?

 

[I7guy]

With the very slight difference that yours are false.

And yours are unproven.

It’s very difficult to achieve 28 hours. It requires efficient settings and light use. That I agree with. But like I often tell you: you must be a very heavy user if your expectations are a mere 8 hours on a Pro Max on its original iOS version.

I have heavy usage corporate software installed which is why my max didn’t have great battery life from the beginning.

Sure, that has nothing to do with what I said... or battery life for that matter. I’ve never said that staying behind has no drawbacks.

Again, I never said staying behind has no drawbacks.

I missed it. Unintentionally, of course.

No problem while it’s one data point it is interesting.

I will include a PD after this which will reply to this.

Alright, but don’t say I keep ignoring it, then.

Up until now you ignored it missed it.

PD: Correct me if my assumption is incorrect, but I think I know why you think like this. The only explanation I can muster based on what you’ve posted is that you are a very heavy user in terms of settings, brightness, and usage. Like I have repeatedly stated, iOS devices haven’t been - and still aren’t - good in terms of battery life regardless of the iOS version if usage is heavy enough. That’s why you keep saying “but my Xs Max was bad both on iOS 12 and 17”. iOS 12 is a lot better, but you won’t get good battery life if you’re a very heavy user on either version.

Remember that example I posted of a user getting 4 hours on a 1st-gen iPad Pro on iOS 9? I think that’s you. You are a heavy user who gets very poor battery life on every device due to sheer load, and that blurs the line between iOS versions. Not because there is no difference, the difference is very obvious, but because battery life is very poor on any iOS version if you use the device heavily enough. That 1st-gen iPad Pro user would probably get 2 hours on iPadOS 16, but they’d say what you say: “battery life was poor on iOS 9 too”. It was twice as good actually, but it’s way more noticeable if you go from 14 hours to 7, than if you go from 4 hours to 2.

Why am I speculating? Because you refuse to post a screenshot. But if you did, I think the data would be very clear.

So do confirm, are you a heavy user?

I am a heavy user and use the heck out of the phone.

 

[FeliApple]

I am a heavy user and use the heck out of the phone.

Yeah, it’s settled then.

 

[MacCheetah3]

“Facts incorrect”. My facts are correct, thank you

Here you go: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP848?locale=en_US
Go to “Power and Battery”, of course.

Well I admit I looked at the iphone 13 not the PM. However, that 28 hours refers to downloaded videos. The reality is if people are watching the video providers (youtube, netflix, amazon etc), they are probably streamed - which means 25 hours; and that is the same across the board for the iphone 14pm and iphone 15pm. I can guarantee you, my new iphone 15PM will not get 28 hours, not even 25 hours the way I use phone. If I get a full day, which is 8 hours, I'll be a happy camper.

Just helping to add (some) clarity, here are Apple’s testing methodology notes:

Video Playback Tests​

Testing conducted by Apple in July and August 2023 using preproduction iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro, and iPhone 15 Pro Max units and software, subscribed to LTE and 5G carrier networks. Video playback consisted of a repeated 2-hour 23-minute movie purchased from the iTunes Store, tested with stereo audio output. Video playback (streamed) consisted of a repeated 3-hour 1-minute HDR movie purchased from the iTunes Store, tested with stereo audio output. All settings were default except: Bluetooth was paired with headphones; Wi-Fi was associated with a network; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks, Auto-Brightness, and True Tone were turned off.

Audio Playback Tests​

Testing conducted by Apple in July and August 2023 using preproduction iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro, and iPhone 15 Pro Max units and software, subscribed to LTE and 5G carrier networks. The playlist consisted of 358 unique audio tracks purchased from the iTunes Store (256-Kbps AAC encoding), tested with stereo audio output. All settings were default except: Bluetooth was paired with headphones; Wi-Fi was associated with a network; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max were tested with Always-On display enabled but with the display not visible; audio playback time will decrease when Always-On display is visible, compared to playback time when the display is face down on a surface or in a pocket or bag.

iPhone - Battery Test Information - Apple

Unfortunately, Apple fails to note at least a couple of important details, which leaves the need for assumption. For example, it’s seemingly implied these tests are performed in isolation (i.e., no other apps (besides Music or TV) or background tasks (e.g., iCloud-related syncs) running). Furthermore, we can assume only the base/stock apps are installed and no notifications are enabled.

Last but not least, of course, being content from the iTunes Store, the media is optimized for Apple’s hardware accelerators (i.e., decoders and encoders).

Basically, these results are best case scenarios.

 

[Boy261]

Update from previous posts:

Battery from my xs max changed, battery was genuine, though obviously the phone does not recognise it without a “genius service”. Almost destroyed the face id in the process😅 scraped some of the coating on the flex and cutted a GND mass, though not conected to anything. Battery adhesive to blame, hard as hell 🥵.

So, battery has improved a lot (obviously), perfomance is slightly noticeable but not by much. The throttling is not that hard anymore to be that noticeable. It does make the battery usable more time though

 

[FeliApple]

Just helping to add (some) clarity, here are Apple’s testing methodology notes:

iPhone - Battery Test Information - Apple

Unfortunately, Apple fails to note at least a couple of important details, which leaves the need for assumption. For example, it’s seemingly implied these tests are performed in isolation (i.e., no other apps (besides Music or TV) or background tasks (e.g., iCloud-related syncs) running). Furthermore, we can assume only the base/stock apps are installed and no notifications are enabled.

Last but not least, of course, being content from the iTunes Store, the media is optimized for Apple’s hardware accelerators (i.e., decoders and encoders).

Basically, these results are best case scenarios.

Oh, absolutely. Like I said, I can consistently get the 16 hours that Apple claims on my Xʀ, but it requires efficient settings, efficient apps, low brightness, and Wi-Fi. So perfect conditions. I have never hidden this. I’ve been very clear about the fact that I am a light user. Just to give some examples, switching to cellular and increasing brightness to 50% drops that number to around 12 hours.

That said, however, to get these numbers you need iOS 12. You aren’t getting them on iOS 17. I’ve also mentioned that after Apple forced my 9.7-inch iPad Pro from iOS 9 to iOS 12, battery life dropped from 14 hours to 10-11 with these great conditions. So you can optimise heavily, but updates will still impact battery life.

@I7guy is a heavy user who won’t get good battery life from any device. I think that’s where our disagreement stems from. I’ve seen videos of people using the 11 Pro Max heavily and they killed it in 5 hours of SOT (on iOS 13 of course). I was amazed at some numbers I was seeing from that device, yet I knew that it was possible to get mediocre battery life.

I’ve used my Xʀ to shoot 4K videos with full brightness and battery life plummets. I have no qualms with admitting that because it’s the truth.

Like I said, while battery life will still plummet if you update far enough, a heavy enough user won’t necessarily remember iOS 12 fondly, as battery life will not be good should that be the case.

Grab any iPhone, any iPad. Use it heavily (say, high brightness gaming or 4K video), and battery life will not be good even with the efficiency of the original iOS version. This isn’t a secret.

I can get 25 hours of light SOT on my iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. People report that battery life on the Air 5 is poor. How can there be such a stark difference? Because they’re heavy users. You can find a lot of battery life reviews and tests online praising the iPad Air 5, with the significant caveat that battery life is poor. But see how they test it: looping heavy videos at 100% brightness. Full brightness is the #1 battery killer on any device. You aren’t getting good battery life with full brightness, regardless of the iOS version.

@I7guy is closer to being a user who uses their iPhone like that than one similar to me, so they don’t remember iOS 12 fondly on a Xs Max. I’m still puzzled about the reason for which they claim iOS 17 hasn’t degraded battery life, because like I said, they aren’t getting the same battery life with the same usage, but I can understand their claims of poor battery life on iOS 12 a lot better, even if their claims of iOS 17 matching iOS 12 simply aren’t true.

 

[ric22]

Oh, absolutely. Like I said, I can consistently get the 16 hours that Apple claims on my Xʀ, but it requires efficient settings, efficient apps, low brightness, and Wi-Fi. So perfect conditions. I have never hidden this. I’ve been very clear about the fact that I am a light user. Just to give some examples, switching to cellular and increasing brightness to 50% drops that number to around 12 hours.

That said, however, to get these numbers you need iOS 12. You aren’t getting them on iOS 17. I’ve also mentioned that after Apple forced my 9.7-inch iPad Pro from iOS 9 to iOS 12, battery life dropped from 14 hours to 10-11 with these great conditions. So you can optimise heavily, but updates will still impact battery life.

@I7guy is a heavy user who won’t get good battery life from any device. I think that’s where our disagreement stems from. I’ve seen videos of people using the 11 Pro Max heavily and they killed it in 5 hours of SOT (on iOS 13 of course). I was amazed at some numbers I was seeing from that device, yet I knew that it was possible to get mediocre battery life.

I’ve used my Xʀ to shoot 4K videos with full brightness and battery life plummets. I have no qualms with admitting that because it’s the truth.

Like I said, while battery life will still plummet if you update far enough, a heavy enough user won’t necessarily remember iOS 12 fondly, as battery life will not be good should that be the case.

Grab any iPhone, any iPad. Use it heavily (say, high brightness gaming or 4K video), and battery life will not be good even with the efficiency of the original iOS version. This isn’t a secret.

I can get 25 hours of light SOT on my iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. People report that battery life on the Air 5 is poor. How can there be such a stark difference? Because they’re heavy users. You can find a lot of battery life reviews and tests online praising the iPad Air 5, with the significant caveat that battery life is poor. But see how they test it: looping heavy videos at 100% brightness. Full brightness is the #1 battery killer on any device. You aren’t getting good battery life with full brightness, regardless of the iOS version.

@I7guy is closer to being a user who uses their iPhone like that than one similar to me, so they don’t remember iOS 12 fondly on a Xs Max. I’m still puzzled about the reason for which they claim iOS 17 hasn’t degraded battery life, because like I said, they aren’t getting the same battery life with the same usage, but I can understand their claims of poor battery life on iOS 12 a lot better, even if their claims of iOS 17 matching iOS 12 simply aren’t true.

I always thought it was stupid how reviewers would review any device with a screen at an arbitrary brightness level like 50/80/100%... different devices are capable of different brightness levels, so actual measurable brightness should be considered.

Personally I like my devices to be quite bright, which seems to equate to about 65% on my iPhone 15 Pro Max and 90% on my MacBook Air M1, as I look at them on a dull afternoon.

 

[FeliApple]

I always thought it was stupid how reviewers would review any device with a screen at an arbitrary brightness level like 50/80/100%... different devices are capable of different brightness levels, so actual measurable brightness should be considered.

Personally I like my devices to be quite bright, which seems to equate to about 65% on my iPhone 15 Pro Max and 90% on my MacBook Air M1, as I look at them on a dull afternoon.

Some reviewers use nits, which while it is more accurate... isn’t it a little misleading? Full brightness is always heavier than 50% brightness, I’d say regardless of nits. I have neither done a test nor seen one, but I’d love to see a test comparing SOT with, say, 0% brightness as the baseline against two other tests on some devices: one using nits as the factor, and another one using brightness percentage. I reckon that regardless of nits, you’d see a higher impact when brightness is closer to 100%, even if nits are lower than a different device at, say, 75%. An unproven hypothesis, of course. What do you think?

 

[JinxVi]

It is said software always catches up with hardware and Apple proves this to be true.

Except, it isn't. Moore's Law predicts exponential performance growth and software hasn't caught up with hardware capabilities for a while now.

Older hardware takes more oomph to run modern software than modern hardware.

Software efficiency is also improving over time. And this has nothing to do with degrading battery health and the need to run the processor slower to save energy.

You are taxing older hardware more as new iOS versions does more than older iOS versions.

Even on the same iOS version with the same apps installed your iPhone will run slower depending on the health of your battery.

It’s not like battery life decreases for some unknown reason. The reason is known, iOS is doing more.

The reason is indeed known, but it's not about software, it's the chemistry within the rechargeable battery itself. You can run a radio or a lamp on battery (or something else that's completely immune to software updates) and the battery capacity will still degrade over time and finally stop charging altogether.

 

[FeliApple]

Except, it isn't. Moore's Law predicts exponential performance growth and software hasn't caught up with hardware capabilities for a while now.

For new devices this is true.

Software efficiency is also improving over time. And this has nothing to do with degrading battery health and the need to run the processor slower to save energy.

In theory. In practice, for iOS devices? Not true. Newer iOS versions are absurdly inefficient when compared to the original iOS version.

Even on the same iOS version with the same apps installed your iPhone will run slower depending on the health of your battery.

Not my experience. Performance and battery life don’t change even with severely degraded batteries when the device isn’t updated.

The reason is indeed known, but it's not about software, it's the chemistry within the rechargeable battery itself. You can run a radio or a lamp on battery (or something else that's completely immune to software updates) and the battery capacity will still degrade over time and finally stop charging altogether.

Whilst this is true, the resilience of an iOS device to battery degradation when on its original iOS version is insane.

I’m not saying it’s limitless. But I am saying that the battery lifespan will far outlast the device’s usefulness in terms of software compatibility. How long are we talking about? Well over a decade. Is an iOS device useful as a main device after, say, 15 years? Not really, and then, who cares about battery life anyway?

 

[ric22]

Some reviewers use nits, which while it is more accurate... isn’t it a little misleading? Full brightness is always heavier than 50% brightness, I’d say regardless of nits. I have neither done a test nor seen one, but I’d love to see a test comparing SOT with, say, 0% brightness as the baseline against two other tests on some devices: one using nits as the factor, and another one using brightness percentage. I reckon that regardless of nits, you’d see a higher impact when brightness is closer to 100%, even if nits are lower than a different device at, say, 75%. An unproven hypothesis, of course. What do you think?

My point was that percentages are meaningless if 50% is bright in one device and dull on another. Nits is the only thing worth considering. Obviously stating that a device must be turned to 55% or 85% brightness to achieve it is necessary too. I'd personally like battery life tests to be done closer to 100%, but I've seen tests conducted with unrealistic nits for a bright office.

Would be an interesting to test to do what I think you're suggesting, and see how battery life is impacted at a set nit value vs high percentages.

 

[ric22]

Not my experience. Performance and battery life don’t change even with severely degraded batteries when the device isn’t updated.

I think Apple confirmed that the processor is slowed when the battery degrades? On newer devices you don't get the option to toggle this on and off any more.

 

[FeliApple]

I think Apple confirmed that the processor is slowed when the battery degrades? On newer devices you don't get the option to toggle this on and off any more.

Well, I know iPads don’t have this and the impact on newer iPhones (11 and later) where this cannot be toggled remains to be seen, but I have some thoughts on the performance management aspect:

-I have two iPhones, neither of which will ever see any throttling, or “performance management” nonsense:

-My iPhone Xʀ running iOS 12 (performance management for the iPhone Xʀ was enabled on iOS 13.1 and later, see: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387)

-My iPhone 6s, which runs an iOS 10 version earlier than iOS 10.2.1, so no performance management whatsoever, as that had never been introduced with the iOS version I have.

The question is whether an original iOS version iPhone will ever need to be throttled, as the power requirements of original iOS versions are not as high. I reckon an iPhone 11 on iOS 13 would be able to withstand and comply with power requirements even with a degraded battery. I’ve seen iOS devices below 80% on good iOS versions and the message is always the same: “your battery is currently supporting normal peak performance”.

If anyone has this, I’d love to see an iPhone 11 or later on its original iOS version with the throttling message, and please indicate battery health and cycles, too. Original iOS version only, please, and by this I mean any point version of the original major version (i.e., any iOS 12.x.x version on the iPhone Xʀ).

 

[JinxVi]

Not my experience. Performance and battery life don’t change even with severely degraded batteries when the device isn’t updated.

What if you replace the old battery with a new one? Doesn't the iPhone run faster again without another software update! So it's an adaptation of the clock speed to the current health/capacity of the battery.

I’m not saying it’s limitless. But I am saying that the battery lifespan will far outlast the device’s usefulness in terms of software compatibility. How long are we talking about? Well over a decade. Is an iOS device useful as a main device after, say, 15 years? Not really, and then, who cares about battery life anyway?

5-7 years until an iPhone battery is dead, when used every day all the time. I've never had an iPhone that didn't eventually need a battery replacement. Currently I'm running a five-year-old iPhone XR at 78% capacity. A $12 replacement battery lies already in the drawer. I'm just cautious to open it up, because of all the glue which makes newer iPhones water resistant. Don't want to crack a screen, if it's not yet necessary.

 

[pdoherty]

I will say that with ARM chips rapidly advancing, early on it wasn't uncommon for a phone to just become obsolete quickly and that is why the phone carriers' two-year upgrade schemes worked so well. Annedoctedly, since about 2018 I've noticed people don't upgrade their phones as much. Not sure if it's because of how the carriers work or if the actual phones are just that much better. I would say my iPhone 11 is by far and a way the best phone I have ever owned.

Feel the same way. Had an iPhone 11 for 3+ years and just "upgraded" to an iPhone 13 about 3 months ago and I still miss the 11.

 

[GoodWheaties]

I'm looking for tests comparing older iPhones (with new batteries) on their original iOS versions versus the latest updates. Specifically, I'm interested in any data showing how performance changes with iOS updates on these older devices. Does anyone have information or links to such studies?

Thanks!

For quite some time I would run Geekbench scores on every iOS update. This would have been in the iOS 8,9,10 era. There were only slight changes to scores, just as often being slightly higher as slightly lower. In fact I think the total score probably went up by a percent or so by the end. So the actual performance of the chip never changed. Just how the software ran on the chip. Not sure if that is what you were looking for.

 

[I7guy]

Except, it isn't. Moore's Law predicts exponential performance growth and software hasn't caught up with hardware capabilities for a while now.

That’s really not true. Applications like chatgpt definitely have caught up with hardware. But I agree in general as a 50,000 foot observation, software lags hardware and moore’s law is dead.

Software efficiency is also improving over time. And this has nothing to do with degrading battery health and the need to run the processor slower to save energy.

And also as upgrades are introduced regressions are introduced. It’s hard to say from one iOS version to another if the entirety of the o/s is more efficient than its predecessor.

Even on the same iOS version with the same apps installed your iPhone will run slower depending on the health of your battery.

Yeah, that has been the case for a while now.

The reason is indeed known, but it's not about software, it's the chemistry within the rechargeable battery itself. You can run a radio or a lamp on battery (or something else that's completely immune to software updates) and the battery capacity will still degrade over time and finally stop charging altogether.

Yep, fully agree.

 

[I7guy]

Oh, absolutely. Like I said, I can consistently get the 16 hours that Apple claims on my Xʀ, but it requires efficient settings, efficient apps, low brightness, and Wi-Fi.

Right. Babying the phone. I don’t baby my phone because I want to use it and not worry about battery life.

So perfect conditions. I have never hidden this. I’ve been very clear about the fact that I am a light user. Just to give some examples, switching to cellular and increasing brightness to 50% drops that number to around 12 hours.

And going in the sun with a lousy cell signal at full brightness while recording a 4k movie will kill your battery. I’ll bet my max would have the same battery life sundernsuch conditions.

That said, however, to get these numbers you need iOS 12. You aren’t getting them on iOS 17.

No I haven’t tried babying my max and setting up an environment that I will never use the phone under. I use the phone under real world conditions, sunlight, heat, lousy cell signal etc.

I’ve also mentioned that after Apple forced my 9.7-inch iPad Pro from iOS 9 to iOS 12, battery life dropped from 14 hours to 10-11 with these great conditions. So you can optimise heavily, but updates will still impact battery life.

@I7guy is a heavy user who won’t get good battery life from any device. I think that’s where our disagreement stems from. I’ve seen videos of people using the 11 Pro Max heavily and they killed it in 5 hours of SOT (on iOS 13 of course). I was amazed at some numbers I was seeing from that device, yet I knew that it was possible to get mediocre battery life.

No our disagreement stems from a misrepresentation of what you mistakenly believe to be the effects of upgrading on iOS devices with the a12 and later.

I’ve used my Xʀ to shoot 4K videos with full brightness and battery life plummets. I have no qualms with admitting that because it’s the truth.

Like I said, while battery life will still plummet if you update far enough, a heavy enough user won’t necessarily remember iOS 12 fondly, as battery life will not be good should that be the case.

A heavy user will remember what it was at the beginning.

Grab any iPhone, any iPad. Use it heavily (say, high brightness gaming or 4K video), and battery life will not be good even with the efficiency of the original iOS version. This isn’t a secret.

Nobody said it was a secret, but babying a device to show maximum battery life is something I’ll bet most do not do.

I can get 25 hours of light SOT on my iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. People report that battery life on the Air 5 is poor. How can there be such a stark difference? Because they’re heavy users. You can find a lot of battery life reviews and tests online praising the iPad Air 5, with the significant caveat that battery life is poor. But see how they test it: looping heavy videos at 100% brightness. Full brightness is the #1 battery killer on any device. You aren’t getting good battery life with full brightness, regardless of the iOS version.

@I7guy is closer to being a user who uses their iPhone like that than one similar to me, so they don’t remember iOS 12 fondly on a Xs Max.

Oh yes I do. I remember the performance and how at the time it was state of the art.

I’m still puzzled about the reason for which they claim iOS 17 hasn’t degraded battery life, because like I said, they aren’t getting the same battery life with the same usage,

I claim I am at least similar.

but I can understand their claims of poor battery life on iOS 12 a lot better, even if their claims of iOS 17 matching iOS 12 simply aren’t true.

They as yours are and I use the device without worrying about battery life.

 

[FeliApple]

What if you replace the old battery with a new one? Doesn't the iPhone run faster again without another software update! So it's an adaptation of the clock speed to the current health/capacity of the battery.

But the phone already runs flawlessly with the original battery installed. If and when it isn’t updated, I don’t need to replace it. Battery life is perfect too, like I said.

5-7 years until an iPhone battery is dead, when used every day all the time. I've never had an iPhone that didn't eventually need a battery replacement. Currently I'm running a five-year-old iPhone XR at 78% capacity. A $12 replacement battery lies already in the drawer. I'm just cautious to open it up, because of all the glue which makes newer iPhones water resistant. Don't want to crack a screen, if it's not yet necessary.

This depends on the iOS version and heat.

Like I’ve repeatedly stated, I take three precautions which allow me to use iPhones for years without caring about battery health:

-Never update iOS

-Avoid heat

-Charge slowly, preferably with a 5w charger

With these three precautions, I can use my iPhones for over a decade and they’re fine, no battery replacements.

 

[FeliApple]

Right. Babying the phone. I don’t baby my phone because I want to use it and not worry about battery life.

It’s just my usage pattern. Use it however you like, it’s okay.

And going in the sun with a lousy cell signal at full brightness while recording a 4k movie will kill your battery. I’ll bet my max would have the same battery life sundernsuch conditions.

Not the same. It will be poor, yes, but it will be better than your Xs Max.

No I haven’t tried babying my max and setting up an environment that I will never use the phone under. I use the phone under real world conditions, sunlight, heat, lousy cell signal etc.

Sure, those are your conditions. Mine aren’t those.

No our disagreement stems from a misrepresentation of what you mistakenly believe to be the effects of upgrading on iOS devices with the a12 and later.

This is false.

A heavy user will remember what it was at the beginning.

Not from what I’ve read, no.

Nobody said it was a secret, but babying a device to show maximum battery life is something I’ll bet most do not do.

Of course, and like I said, I frequently use my phone in heavier environments. Battery life decreases, obviously, yet no iOS 17 Xʀ with similar usage patterns can match my battery life.

Oh yes I do. I remember the performance and how at the time it was state of the art.

We agree on something else, great.

I claim I am at least similar.

I am going to be very clear: I don’t believe you. I don’t think it is anywhere close to my Xʀ. I do believe yours isn’t unusable, which tracks with every screenshot of every A12 device I’ve seen. You can get a full day if you don’t need a lot of hours of screen-on time and your usage isn’t very heavy, but your screen-on time is probably mediocre.

They as yours are and I use the device without worrying about battery life.

I’m not saying you should worry, I’m saying it isn’t as good as it was when it was on iOS 12. It’s rather enlightening that you refuse to post a screenshot. I’m not scared of posting screenshots. I can post a screenshot of any device I use, break down my usage patterns, and give my opinion. I can even post a screenshot, transparently, of my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9 and iOS 12 and detail the difference. I look at the numbers.

 

[Atog]

About that planned obsolescence if true.. but then why some of my previous iPhones were actually better on later iOS version then before? I mean why if Apple wants me to buy a new one?
Same with iPads. My iPad Air 4th gen is better on iPadOS 16 and now 17 then was on 15. Stable and swift.
My 2020 Macbook Pro(Intel !) much better on Ventura and Sonoma then before. And since low power mode was introduced into macOS, its better the ever regarding battery. Is Apple trying to convince me to keep my devices longer or what?

 

[Lift Bar]

For quite some time I would run Geekbench scores on every iOS update. This would have been in the iOS 8,9,10 era. There were only slight changes to scores, just as often being slightly higher as slightly lower. In fact I think the total score probably went up by a percent or so by the end. So the actual performance of the chip never changed. Just how the software ran on the chip. Not sure if that is what you were looking for.

Yes, thank you for your insights. I'm keen on scientifically exploring this matter, specifically the notion that iOS updates significantly slow down iPhones, not just the throttling for battery health. Despite the common belief in deliberate obsolescence due to updates, it's unlikely that these updates make phones unusably slow. I suspect much of this perception stems from coincidental factors like battery wear. Also, new iOS versions reorganize system resources, which might temporarily affect performance.

However, the persistent anecdotes that updates turn old iPhones into bricks is intriguing. I'm curious if there are any formal studies examining this.

 

[I7guy]

It’s just my usage pattern. Use it however you like, it’s okay.

I understand you are using a device that’s constrained by age in terms of both hardware and software with a battery that is no where able to deliver anywhere near peak capacity.

Not the same. It will be poor, yes, but it will be better than your Xs Max.

No it won’t.

Sure, those are your conditions. Mine aren’t those.

That is why you are able to get any life at all out of your iPhone. You use it, but barely.

This is false.

No it’s not.

Not from what I’ve read, no.

Prove it, else it’s more spitting in the wind without any facts.

Of course, and like I said, I frequently use my phone in heavier environments. Battery life decreases, obviously, yet no iOS 17 Xʀ with similar usage patterns can match my battery life.

This is false. Use it in hostile conditions and your XR will fold like a cheap suit.

We agree on something else, great.

Well yeah!

I am going to be very clear: I don’t believe you. I don’t think it is anywhere close to my Xʀ. I do believe yours isn’t unusable, which tracks with every screenshot of every A12 device I’ve seen. You can get a full day if you don’t need a lot of hours of screen-on time and your usage isn’t very heavy, but your screen-on time is probably mediocre.

Okay, you can’t prove me wrong. But yeah you claims are dubious to say the least.

I’m not saying you should worry, I’m saying it isn’t as good as it was when it was on iOS 12. It’s rather enlightening that you refuse to post a screenshot. I’m not scared of posting screenshots. I can post a screenshot of any device I use, break down my usage patterns, and give my opinion. I can even post a screenshot, transparently, of my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9 and iOS 12 and detail the difference. I look at the numbers.

I don’t worry, but on IOS 17 I can do things your phone on iOS 12 can only dream of. Yeah both phones check email, post on facebook etc. Your screenshots say nothing because it’s not any type of a valid test. And while I don’t believe many YouTube tests at least it’s some type of testing memorialized.

For all I know you go in a dark room, with a downloaded video, turn the screen down all of the way and hit the screen for 9 hours straight. And sure that is the best case scenario. Those “battery Graphs” don’t show all that is going on in the system.

And I’m not discussing iPads, I’m only discussing the a12 chip.