Tim Cook Reportedly Called Nancy Pelosi and Other Members of Congress to Warn Against Passing Antitrust Bills

[HMFIC03]

Imagine deleting the Photos app on a whim.

Good point - calendar too.. i do wish 42 was in office, he always had Apple’s back

 

[now i see it]

Monopolist contacts lawmaker to discourage pending laws that would penalize monopolies

 

[rpmurray]

Aren't there some (perfectly) legal shenanigans Apple could do that would give the appearance of breaking up the company but still keep each independent baby Apple (like Apple Pacific, Apple Mountain, Apple Central, and Apple Atlantic) all under one umbrella so that they could claim that each didn't have a market capitalization of $600 billion and at least 50 million monthly active users?

 

[5H3PH3RD]

Not entirely true. I cannot delete the mail app, safari and a few others. I do not use either of them. My iPhone still works like it would. I would remove apple music as well....But I can't.

How am I able to, and you can’t?

 

[syklee26]

Epic would not have settled for anything less than the ability to offer their own App Store on iOS, where they would not only pay 0% to Apple, but also be able to host other apps and charge developers a commission of their own.

At this point, the only thing that Apple can do is fight. Continue to fight and continue to win. This bill is still many many years from being passed and everyone is acting like it’s a done deal and Apple is screwed.

That was never going to fly at the court. That is like arguing that they do not owe any rent at a deparment mall. There isn't just a valid ground to argue for that.

Matters like this get the attention of government because there are so many people complaining about the onerous rate Apple charges. If any developers think they can freeride App Store, they are just delusional. Apple would've had many developers on their side if the rates were reasonable, which would make their battle much easier.

 

[Abazigal]

That was never going to fly at the court. That is like arguing that they do not owe any rent at a deparment mall. There isn't just a valid ground to argue for that.

Matters like this get the attention of government because there are so many people complaining about the onerous rate Apple charges. If any developers think they can freeride App Store, they are just delusional. Apple would've had many developers on their side if the rates were reasonable, which would make their battle much easier.

Which then raises the question - what’s a reasonable rate, and how does one arrive at that number?

You can’t point to payment processing companies like Stripe and MasterCard and quote 5% because these companies are not in the business of running and maintaining an App Store (which has additional overheads). You can’t even compare directly with Epic’s 12% (or was it 18%?) because they also do a lot less even as they charge less.

And let’s say Apple has lowered their cut to 20% or 15% from the start. We would still be having this exact same conversation here because for them, anything more than 0% (or whatever it costs them to process payments) is money not in their pocket.

To me, it just reeks of double standards when Sony and Microsoft are allowed to charge 30% for their console App Store and nobody makes any noise, yet everyone is crying foul when Apple does the same. And don’t give me the “but Apple makes a lot of money off their iPhones while consoles are sold at a loss” crap.

All these are business decisions made by the company. Nintendo doesn’t have to see their switch at break-even pricing. Apple managed to build up the user base they did despite their iPhones costing a small fortune. From a developer’s perspective, what do I care about whether the parent company is making a profit or loss on their hardware when it has no impact on the bottom line of my app? I will pay them 30% either way.

If people want to see the current App Store model burnt down the ground, then I say we do it for every App Store in existence, from Sony to Nintendo to xbox to Epic.

Let’s burn it all to the ground.

 

[kyleh22]

The fact that Tim is personally making calls is proof to me the bill is good for consumers. Unfortunately, congress is likely just hanging this bill over big tech so congress members can get more lobbying dollars tossed their way...

 

[erniefairchild1]

Not entirely true. I cannot delete the mail app, safari and a few others. I do not use either of them. My iPhone still works like it would. I would remove apple music as well....But I can't.

Even so, what are we really talking about here? This is becoming farcical.

Apple creates a platform that becomes very successful, and people can develop apps for it, and can make money doing so. These apps compete against Apple’s own apps. Now we’re upset that Apple includes it’s own apps in the operating system? And that Apple doesn’t allow removal of some it finds integral to the functionality of the device? And why shouldn’t Apple be able to provide their own apps as default? Because it makes their own apps more accessible than the competition? Do grocery stores engage in anti-competitive behavior by pricing their store-brand merchandise lower than the competition? Does Gap engage in anti-competitive behavior by picking and choosing what third party merchandise to sell in their stores alongside their own products?

Apple is successful because people benefit from their products, not because it’s practices prevent people from enjoying an alternative, of which there are many to choose from. This is all about the typical meddling of politicians, and malicious consumers who don’t like Apple’s policies, so they support the legislative meddling. Regularly we see people on here complain about Apple POLICY supporting LEGAL action to change said policy. That seems wildly inappropriate to me. And it seems pretty dangerous.

 

[syklee26]

Which then raises the question - what’s a reasonable rate, and how does one arrive at that number?

You can’t point to payment processing companies like Stripe and MasterCard and quote 5% because these companies are not in the business of running and maintaining an App Store (which has additional overheads). You can’t even compare directly with Epic’s 12% (or was it 18%?) because they also do a lot less even as they charge less.

And let’s say Apple has lowered their cut to 20% or 15% from the start. We would still be having this exact same conversation here because for them, anything more than 0% (or whatever it costs them to process payments) is money not in their pocket.

To me, it just reeks of double standards when Sony and Microsoft are allowed to charge 30% for their console App Store and nobody makes any noise, yet everyone is crying foul when Apple does the same. And don’t give me the “but Apple makes a lot of money off their iPhones while consoles are sold at a loss” crap.

All these are business decisions made by the company. Nintendo doesn’t have to see their switch at break-even pricing. Apple managed to build up the user base they did despite their iPhones costing a small fortune. From a developer’s perspective, what do I care about whether the parent company is making a profit or loss on their hardware when it has no impact on the bottom line of my app? I will pay them 30% either way.

If people want to see the current App Store model burnt down the ground, then I say we do it for every App Store in existence, from Sony to Nintendo to xbox to Epic.

Let’s burn it all to the ground.

It does come down to who makes how much. Sony and Microsoft make their consoles at loss. They make up with games sold.

Yes, there will always be what is a reasonable rate, but my point is not so much on what is a reasonable figure, but rather at what rate would developers mostly keep it quiet.

From developers' perspective; Apple makes crap load on hardware and App store and still squeeze them out of every penny they can. This is what makes developers mad and join forces with Epic to fight Apple.

If Apple just cut the rate down to 15% (or whatever) then that will keep the noise down and stand a better ground against others whose crux of argument is "fairness."

 

[erniefairchild1]

Typical apple response. but that's exactly what I am doing I am sick of the crappy walled garden tactics of apple. I like it here because MOST, but not all are not rabid fan&@*'s. You can have a discussion most times without the "But' it's apple it's the best" comments. The alternative sections in the forums here are great and active. I love all tech but I am not a blind follower. I am not one of those if apple does it it's the best and everything else is garbage and apple does no wrong types. Imore has 90% of those types. it's only 20% those types here fortunately. I have found a couple of them though.

EDIT: why should I have to put them in a folder. Apple should offer them on the app store so I can clean out the garbage I don't want on MY phone. It's not their phone. It they gave it to me, sure. I would expect that. I paid 900 bucks for it and I should be able to remove any app besides the apple app store. I agree with that one should NOT be removable.

Yup. You paid $900 for the product they created and offered. And you’re complaining about it instead of returning it. And continue to do so rather than purchasing an alternative.

 

[erniefairchild1]

Monopolist contacts lawmaker to discourage pending laws that would penalize monopolies

Explain how Apple is a monopoly. Please be very precise and do explain what a monopoly is.

 

[erniefairchild1]

The fact that Tim is personally making calls is proof to me the bill is good for consumers. Unfortunately, congress is likely just hanging this bill over big tech so congress members can get more lobbying dollars tossed their way...

So you’re saying that you think the bill must be good for consumers because a CEO is telling lawmakers it’s bad, but that Congress isn’t even serious about the bill and they’re just using it to extort money about lobbyists. And you think this proves the bill is legitimate. Got it.

 

[Abazigal]

It does come down to who makes how much. Sony and Microsoft make their consoles at loss. They make up with games sold.

Yes, there will always be what is a reasonable rate, but my point is not so much on what is a reasonable figure, but rather at what rate would developers mostly keep it quiet.

From developers' perspective; Apple makes crap load on hardware and App store and still squeeze them out of every penny they can. This is what makes developers mad and join forces with Epic to fight Apple.

If Apple just cut the rate down to 15% (or whatever) then that will keep the noise down and stand a better ground against others whose crux of argument is "fairness."

Which is why I say to Apple - continue to fight and continue to win. And when Apple does, they will feel emboldened by said victory and have no incentive to make further concessions to developers because this legal victory will stand as a symbol of Apple’s unassailable authority over iOS.

This is nothing more than a dog and pony show by US politicians to show that they are not afraid to take on Big Tech. I am not sure what they are even trying to prove here. Consumers by and large are not upset with companies like Apple, Google, Facebook or Amazon. If anything, satisfaction rates are through the roof, and it just goes to show that they do enjoy the services that these companies are providing.

The bills are simply ludicrous, simply because they are so broad and open-ended. Can you imagine Apple not being allowed to preload their own apps onto their own devices prior to sale?

These companies are sterling examples of US innovation. There is no chance in hell that Washington is going to cripple these companies by exposing them to such bills which is tantamount to shutting down huge parts of their business.

Here’s what I am willing to bet will happen. In the (extremely unlikely) event that these bills were to become law in their current form, Apple and all the other tech giants would simply turn to the courts which would in turn lead to years and years of litigation. The bills seem to make for scary, click-bait headlines but the odds of this legislation in its current form getting the required voices to become law are very low.

Looks like reporters are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel for “Apple is doomed” news these days.

 

[J.Dillinger]

So Tim Cook threatened repercussions against US citizens if democratically elected officials didn’t accept his demands.

Who had “Apple becomes terrorist organisation” in their 2021 disaster bingo card?

Where in this did you read “threatened repercussions” and “accept his demands”? You have a flare for dramatic rhetoric.

 

[Freida]

Nothing to do with Apple, don't be spoilt.
Pre iPhone, I recall that all apps were set and you couldn't delete them. Remember flip phones or old Nokia phones? Apps in the os were not deletable.
The fact that the most 'crucial' apps are not deletable now works for bigger advantage to average user than if it was the other way around. Your needs are specific so you get the short straw.
Don't demand something that would affect more users in negative way.
Older generations just use messages, phone and mail. Often don't know how to use App store as they don't need it so if they (by accident) deleted something it would affect them more then you have to living with a folder where you hide your unwanted apps.
Be real please - there are users that are not as advanced as you or me.

Typical apple response. but that's exactly what I am doing I am sick of the crappy walled garden tactics of apple. I like it here because MOST, but not all are not rabid fan&@*'s. You can have a discussion most times without the "But' it's apple it's the best" comments. The alternative sections in the forums here are great and active. I love all tech but I am not a blind follower. I am not one of those if apple does it it's the best and everything else is garbage and apple does no wrong types. Imore has 90% of those types. it's only 20% those types here fortunately. I have found a couple of them though.

EDIT: why should I have to put them in a folder. Apple should offer them on the app store so I can clean out the garbage I don't want on MY phone. It's not their phone. It they gave it to me, sure. I would expect that. I paid 900 bucks for it and I should be able to remove any app besides the apple app store. I agree with that one should NOT be removable.

 

[sw1tcher]

Good for Tim Cook…doing the job he should be doing. IMO, his opinions are spot on. For a prime example see the carriers that were born from the breakup of AT&T.

AT&T was a breakthrough innovator…Lucent labs (albeit found to be monopolistic). The telco companies are none of that and the US does not lead the world in quality or price with cell service.

You suggesting that if Ma Bell had been kept intact that we'd be better off and have better quality and prices than now? ?

Are you forgetting that they held a near monopoly on everything? The phones we used were developed and made by them which means if Ma Bell continued today as they were back then, we wouldn't have the iPhone or other 3rd party developed smartphones because Ma Bell wouldn't have allowed them onto their network.

We'd be using a smartphone developed by Western Electric and an app store run and controlled by them too. Oh, and we'd never be allowed to outright buy and own the smartphone either; We'd be leasing it for eternity just like we did with their landline telephones.

If they did allow 3rd party smartphones, they'd charge users a fee for the privilege of being able to use it on their network, just like they did with telephone equipment that wasn't made and sold by Ma Bell. The same would apply to smartphone accessories too.

And with no competition, we wouldn't have low prices and an unlimited data option either. They'd milk us by charging users by the kb.

 

[I7guy]

The fact that Tim is personally making calls is proof to me the bill is good for consumers. Unfortunately, congress is likely just hanging this bill over big tech so congress members can get more lobbying dollars tossed their way...

Being bad for companies, doesn't mean being good for consumers. It isn't a see-saw where when consumers win - companies lose and vice-versa. In this instance, imo, Apple loses and consumers lose.

 

[I7guy]

You suggesting that if Ma Bell had been kept intact that we'd be better off and have better quality and prices than now? ?

Yup.

Are you forgetting that they held a near monopoly on everything?

Nope.

The phones we used were developed and made by them which means if Ma Bell continued today as they were back then, we wouldn't have the iPhone or other 3rd party developed smartphones because Ma Bell wouldn't have allowed them onto their network.

We'd be using a smartphone developed by Western Electric and an app store run and controlled by them too. Oh, and we'd never be allowed to outright buy and own the smartphone either; We'd be leasing it for eternity just like we did with their landline telephones.

If they did allow 3rd party smartphones, they'd charge users a fee for the privilege of being able to use it on their network, just like they did with telephone equipment that wasn't made and sold by Ma Bell. The same would apply to smartphone accessories too.

And with no competition, we wouldn't have low prices and an unlimited data option either. They'd milk us by charging users by the kb.

The problem wasn't the innovation it was the execution. And legally there is a currently a challenge and we will see how it turns out. There is plenty of competition in the smartphone industry. So if Apple hikes prices across the board, consumers might let their wallets do the talking.

 

[Cosmosent]

The issue now is NOT whether the App Store will get broken up OR NOT, it's who will get the Credit for having made it happen !

That person OR persons will be able to write their own ticket in the future !

I don't think it will be Epic OR Spotify, & I don't think it will be select members of Congress.

There are others out there who have been Off the Radar, who have been building their cases !

I'll put my money on one of them !

And BTW, they are ALL App Devs !

 

[Jamers99]

Tim has a good resting bitch face. Not sure if he is trying to look serious or mad.

 

[Steve Adams]

Well there is a considerable difference to what I am seeing online in real world testing regarding the M1 vs i7 in video editing and creative workflows and so far from what I am seen M1 is better than the i7 11th G series processors.

Still though the i7 is great but AMD offers better value and more cores and AMD's laptop CPUs consume less power than Intels. I wish more Windows OEMs use AMD as its more compelling to the end user.

Did your friends XPS have a dGPU in it?

Nothing to do with Apple, don't be spoilt.
Pre iPhone, I recall that all apps were set and you couldn't delete them. Remember flip phones or old Nokia phones? Apps in the os were not deletable.
The fact that the most 'crucial' apps are not deletable now works for bigger advantage to average user than if it was the other way around. Your needs are specific so you get the short straw.
Don't demand something that would affect more users in negative way.
Older generations just use messages, phone and mail. Often don't know how to use App store as they don't need it so if they (by accident) deleted something it would affect them more then you have to living with a folder where you hide your unwanted apps.
Be real please - there are users that are not as advanced as you or me.

Ha ha. I'm not spoiled. I just want my phone clean as possible. If I don't use the mail app or safari why should I not have the option to remove them. I'm not saying don't pre install them. Just give the option to remove what the owner does not want or need. Have apps in the app store. Your argument regarding previous platforms is a non starter too btw since previous platforms really never had a store to obtain apps just what was on them.

 

[Steve Adams]

Yup. You paid $900 for the product they created and offered. And you’re complaining about it instead of returning it. And continue to do so rather than purchasing an alternative.

Typical apple response. Moving away as we speak. I have to pay off my wireless contract in order to move to another device. Simple. ahhhh the spin!

 

[citysnaps]

It's pretty audacious if Tim Cook is threatening that Apple's software quality could get even worse.

Where in the above story did he say that?

 

[Steve Adams]

How am I able to, and you can’t?

Cool. maybe that was a new addition. I am sure I tried to remove music and it would not let me. Thanks for that one. Next up. how do I arrange my app dock the way I want, not the way apple wants?

 

[m4mario]

So Tim Cook threatened repercussions against US citizens if democratically elected officials didn’t accept his demands.

Who had “Apple becomes terrorist organisation” in their 2021 disaster bingo card?

You are misquoting him. He did not threaten that he will create repercussions.
He warned that these bills will create repercussions for the country by itself.