U.S. President Joe Biden to Direct FTC to Draft Right to Repair Rules

[Abraxsis]

While I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion, this is a well enough publicised issue now for people to be able to make informed decisions. It staggers me that so many people will buy a product but then expect the manufacturer to change the terms of ownership of that product after the fact. Take some personal responsibility...do your research...and if (in this case) being able to have the product repaired wherever you choose is important to you then buy a phone that offers that option. As somebody on here mentioned that Samsung simply has a parts website where anybody can order anything then that seems like a great brand to choose if this kind of thing is important!

But that's not how it works is it?? No...people seem to have the attitude of "Oh I want an iPhone...but I want certain aspects of the experience to be more like Android...and certain aspects more like Starbucks...and certain aspects completely open to however I want it to be...which can change at a moment's notice..." and as a business owner there is only one thing that sucks more than this rampant, consumerism-led attitude of "I'm the customer so you should change to suit MEEEEEEEE"...and that is when governments step in and try to regulate the behaviour of a private legal entity. Slippery slope to state control and Communism if you ask me...but hey...

Also, what do all of you who support this think will happen if there is a free for all in terms of repairs? A race to the bottom in pricing? Is that the end game for this? Because it seems to be all about money. Not about convenience...but about money. And if history has shown us anything it is that a race for the bottom in financial terms always ends in a reduction in quality. Rampant consumerism and the emergence of cheaper brands in almost all areas has reduced quality. Actually, I can't say that for sure about everything, but think about "consumer electronics". I am old enough to remember when you would buy a TV or a washing machine or a fridge and you would probably get 10 years at least out of it. Most consumer electronics these days you will struggle to get more than 3 or 4 years out of! It's not because technology got worse...but simply because of forced competition on price and constant consumer pressure to push prices down can usually only be achieved by reducing costs...and therefore quality. It is most likely a hugely false "economy" to buy cheap in many areas...and yet people continue to demand it in the name of "Consumer Rights".

So to wrap up...caveat emptor. As I said, do your research, choose a brand/product that ticks the most boxes on your "checklist"...but please, for the love of (insert deity of choice)...stop buying products/services and then demanding that the goalposts be shifted to suit your whiney "I am the consumer...worship me" attitude! I am just glad that I operate in an industry and with a business where it is very easy for me to turn customers away so that I don't have to deal with the ones who I know are going to be endless trouble and expecting the earth...

None of this is about Communism, jesus. That term wouldn't even apply here. Why does everyone assume that the failed regimes around the world who call themselves Communist is actually Communism? Whatever.

This isn't about forcing companies to do EXTRA stuff or being entitled. It is about forcing them to stop exerting control of a product after it is purchased by loop holing through IP/DMCA laws. You say Communism, and I say what exactly do you call a country where all the companies tell you what you can and cannot do with the products you buy? How the hell is that whatever you define as freedom??

>I am old enough to remember when you would buy a TV or a washing machine or a fridge and you would probably get 10 years at least out of it. Most consumer electronics these days you will struggle to get more than 3 or 4 years out of!

Are you seriously going to completely overlook the OBVIOUS here? Those older items were able to be repaired, usually very easily and locally, when they started to wear out. Companies didn't make backroom deals with 3rd party suppliers to disallow the end user to buy a part. You bought the part and you installed it yourself, or paid someone to do it for you.

>consumerism-led attitude of "I'm the customer so you should change to suit MEEEEEEEE"...and that is when governments step in and try to regulate the behaviour of a private legal entity.

This is literally not what is happening here. Not in the slightest with right to repair. They are telling the companies to do LESS and let consumers have the power to do as they please with products they legally own. Apple controls their products to a fault because they believe no one could possibly be as qualified to do anything with them. That objectively false and they know it, hence why they spend millions a year in an effort to restrict your rights. I honestly don't understand how you can be SOOOOO for the rights of companies while those same companies slowly erode your own rights through loop holes and unethical application of current laws

 

[mactactic]

Don’t care about right to repair, how about right to upgrade? Always thought it was BS that I couldn’t upgrade ram or a ssd anymore!! By doing simple upgrades you could extend the life of a computer, hopefully whoever is drafting the legislation reads these forums.

 

[Abraxsis]

I once took my phone to a third party shop for a screen replacement and after 3 swaps, the color was nowhere near OEM. I’ll never do it again. They didn’t care and I should’ve never bothered with a place that doesn’t offer refunds (these third party chop shops love to do this, often it’s sleazy impatient Indian guys with no customer service skills whatsoever running them). I’d rather pay the AppleCare deductible and just be done knowing it will be done right the first time.

You do realize this is Apple's fault right? They place codes in the screen now that prevent third party repair places from making the screen swap without a special reader that can read the codes and then write them to the replacement screen. Swapping a screen is cake, Apple chooses to make it 10x harder than it needs to be to lock down 3rd party repairs. This specifically creates customers like you who are angry and vow to devote more money to Apple in the future. So their planned repair limitations worked just as they were designed to do...

 

[cosmichobo]

There is already a huge non-Apple repair market. It's why I don't buy second hand iPhones any more.

I don't so much mind if you have to get a device repaired by someone Apple authorises... I just think the tech world needs to stop this obsessive compulsive desire to make things thinner and thinner, at the cost of repair-ability.

 

[mw360]

Hearts are in the right place, but ultimately we’ll all have to share a plane with all these $5 phone batteries from reputable Amazon brands such as RNDTEK, ASDFGH and WTFOMG.

 

[gsurf123]

Disagree 100%. You should be able to start your small repair shop today. The government should be focused on making it as easy as possible to start up a new business.

You want deregulation? The government is making it happen, removing all of Apple's regulations.

Really, this is simple monopoly busting. Apple is free to compete with their repair shops. If you think Apple's repairs are worth the higher price, by all means go with them. If you think Apple's certifications mean something, go ahead and use an Apple certified independent repair shop. But personally, I like the 16 year old in high school who will fix my phone for $30. Kid is learning how to operate a business and gaining skills for a trade - it's far more valuable than anything else they'll get in high school, and I applaud efforts to make it easier.

If he is repairing a phone for $30 he is not running a business. To him $30 might be a lot, but we’re it a legitimate business with standard overhead it would not be $30, but if your phone was damaged by the repairer you’d get a replacement.

 

[jweinraub]

Right to repair should be defaulted, but I agree it opens a can of worms for scammers regarding repairs of devices and non-OEM parts.

Why does one need an OEM part? Just like with cars, you can buy OEM or non-OEM to save money. I, the customer, should be able to decide what kind of part I want. iFixit doesn't sell OEM for many parts, and it works just fine. Long as it is upfront, if one were to lie and say it is OEM when it isn't that is something else completely.

Apple should be able to have a parts division, like auto dealerships do. I should be able to get a repair manual, and buy the parts I need to do a repair, if I were want to do it myself. Heck, if someone has the ability to do SMT, desolder a blown cap, replace it with the correct cap, and solder it back on, why not?

 

[subi257]

Pander pander pander.

Unconstitutional unconstitutional unconstitutional

Let me go check the constitution so see if its in there

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I agree...but, what if that aftermarket battery is not to correct spec and can't handle the OEM device the rate of recharge or discharge....Li-Ion batteries will over heat can potentially catch fire....ala Samsung. So, there should be a way of having aftermarket, but still certified good.....MFI?

I mean, couldn't you make the same claim about cars? What if the lead-acid battery isn't up to spec? We're often times forced to pick between Chinese Knockoff #1 and Chinese Knockoff #2 because no reputable company wants to 1) incur Apple's wrath by making OEM compatible parts, and 2) Try to make a part when Apple purposefully obfuscates parts and specs.

 

[jav6454]

Why does one need an OEM part? Just like with cars, you can buy OEM or non-OEM to save money. I, the customer, should be able to decide what kind of part I want. iFixit doesn't sell OEM for many parts, and it works just fine. Long as it is upfront, if one were to lie and say it is OEM when it isn't that is something else completely.

Apple should be able to have a parts division, like auto dealerships do. I should be able to get a repair manual, and buy the parts I need to do a repair, if I were want to do it myself. Heck, if someone has the ability to do SMT, desolder a blown cap, replace it with the correct cap, and solder it back on, why not?

Would you buy a non-OEM A-Series chip?

 

[jav6454]

It isn’t rocket science.

No, it isn't. But people will complain if it doesn't come up as expected when using Non-OEM parts.

 

[jimbobb24]

I wonder how much waste would be avoided if manufacturers were required to make batteries easily removable and provide batteries for sale at a reasonable price. It could be a good first step. It deals with the part that degrades the quickest and there'd be nothing tricky about the repair.

No one wants this. Well, 99.7% of the population doesn’t want this. Get over it.

 

[Expos of 1969]

No, it isn't. But people will complain if it doesn't come up as expected when using Non-OEM parts.

This argument has been used many times and it is a red herring. If people choose to install non OEM parts themselves or have a third party do so, they have made a decision. If it goes wrong, their issue is with the repair person or the parts manufacturer, not with Apple. Same as using your local garage. If Jimmy follows your instructions to install a non OEM part in your Ford and something goes wrong, you don't curse and try to sue Ford, you deal with Jimmy.

 

[jimbobb24]

I just wonder how they would enforce this. I am also quite sure that this would end up at the SCOTUS.

Since this is the executive branch and in theory but no longer in practice they don’t make the laws they would need some law made by the law making branch that gave them this authority. As a pure power grab without authority this will not make it to the Supreme Court. It will be thrown out by the DC circuit. Check and balances against abuse of power. If this is a popular position then tell your representative and they can make a law. No more decrees.

 

[jimbobb24]

No, the solution is to bring into law to force ALL companies to provide replacement parts. Not just Apple but car manufacturers, appliance makers (washing machines, fridges etc).

Apple is not unique, far from it.

I think I see the upsides. So what are the downsides of forcing all companies to provide available replacement prices. And if they didn’t want to do it couldn’t they just make the price or each part $10000. Oh the prices will need to be reasonable. We will force them to do that too. Who pays for these things? What are the trade offs. If we could wave a wand and make this happen with no downsides that would be cool but that’s not reality. There would be enormous problems with this and only satisfy a tiny vocal population.

 

[jimbobb24]

A properly written Right to Repair bill would force companies to be reasonable with pricing. If Apple charges $70 for an iPhone battery replacement service, Apple should sell the genuine battery for $40. If they charge $59 for a battery, why wouldn’t one spend $10 more to have the “genius” do it for them?

Whenever you need price controls you know you made a stupid “law”.

 

[jimbobb24]

And that is EXACTLY where non certified manufacturer trained people need to stay out of. Farm machinery is some of the most deadly equipment. 1 mistake can kill somebody.....followed by lawsuits. It is also the same on cars that have a system that stops the car from hitting the car in front....ie Subaru Eyesite....if the windshield needs to be replaced, the entire laser system needs to be recalibrated. done incorrectly, once again, you will kill somebody.

I don’t think you understand how magic decrees from our rulers work. There are never trade offs or downsides just rainbows and unicorns and joy. It’s impossible that our current situation reflects difficult trade offs that have been considered. Nope everyone is just greedy and evil except politicians who are holy Saints instead of the sociopaths they appear to be.

 

[benshive]

No one wants this. Well, 99.7% of the population doesn’t want this. Get over it.

Where did you get the idea that such a majority of people don’t want user replaceable batteries?
Keep in mind there’s a big difference between you personally not wanting something and no one wanting it.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Since this is the executive branch and in theory but no longer in practice they don’t make the laws they would need some law made by the law making branch that gave them this authority. As a pure power grab without authority this will not make it to the Supreme Court. It will be thrown out by the DC circuit. Check and balances against abuse of power. If this is a popular position then tell your representative and they can make a law. No more decrees.

That's now how it works. It would depend on the laws (which could be unconstitutional), on the enforcement clauses (which could be unconstitutional), or acts. The SCOTUS could reverse any decision by lower courts, which could render anything - including Executive Orders - void either in part or in full. Too many questions as of now.

 

[Mac_tech]

Lol louis rossman the guy who got caught smuggling a bunch of counterfeit batteries and whos entire web presence revolves around monetizing apple hateboyism? No thanks

Service should be directly through apple only. These are precision devices that only the mothership should touch, and its better for $AAPL that way too.

Im not taking my ferrari to jiffylube

Caught smuggling batteries, not entirely true. He was ordering batteries for computers Apple no longer services and the batteries he got were original batteries probably with the Apple logo on them and customs seized them. Louis is just sharing his thoughts on why Apple makes it harder to repair their devices is all. I wouldn't call it hateboyism or monetizing at all. He runs a legitimate business and have saved people thousands of dollars over the years.

To answer this, Apple will most likely sell you a new device rather then repair the one you have which is the issue at hand. Even Louis Rossmann would be willing to pay Apple directly in order to get parts and schematics to fix their devices so they stay around longer. Apple doesn't do component level repair which is far cheaper then replacing the entire logic board. If Apple offered this Louis would be on board I'm sure.

True, you'd probably take your farari to a dealer but if the dealers pricing is expensive you'd start looking elsewhere, not some shady business but someone with good reviews and won't nickle and dime you.

 

[Mac_tech]

moabal said:
I am not a fan of Joe Biden. However, if this is what it sounds like, I would be happy (Louis Rossmann too I imagine). However, any final regulation/law would probably be mucked up a little if it gets that far.

Edit: LOL people disliking this because I am not a fan of Joe Biden. Do not read too much into this.

Don’t worry, no one likes Joe Biden. My post will probably be deleted because it hurts someone’s feelings and spreads misinformation.

Who cares who the president is, I'm not a fan of Joe either but at this topic is being looked at and that's what matters I feel.

 

[Expos of 1969]

Lol louis rossman the guy who got caught smuggling a bunch of counterfeit batteries and whos entire web presence revolves around monetizing apple hateboyism? No thanks

Service should be directly through apple only. These are precision devices that only the mothership should touch, and its better for $AAPL that way too.

Im not taking my ferrari to jiffylube

Not a great deal of logic to your statements. But feel free to take your rust bucket 2003 Ford to JiffyLube. They will treat it real good.

 

[Mac_tech]

Just rub this in here:
Landfill don’t care about how we argue about right to repair. If anything, apple should be the sole responsible company to handle their devices from design to manufacturer to service to minimise environmental impact. Right To Repair might not entirely fix that but isn’t reducing landfill our shared responsibility to ensure continuous survival?

If we keep devices around longer then less e-waste in the landfill which is a good thing. Apple just needs to be able to offer more repair services such as component level repair for example and shouldn't charge you insale prices to repair their devices if they break.

 

[jimbobb24]

Not really. Though the Commerce clause gives the Congress the power to regulate commerce, the Supeme Court has ruled in the past that the Executive branch can safeguard US business interersts and protection of the consumer.

Yes, our current understanding of the commerce clause grants legislative branch these powers. The executive branch “can safeguard” within the context of laws that give them authority. The rules people are talking about here include such a wide sweeping power grab that clearly no law supports it and it will either be watered down to nothing to reflect current legislation or challenged and lose.

 

[Mac_tech]

Government shall have no role telling companies how to run their business. If Apple or the like won’t let third party repair shops to get spare parts, let them. Let the consumers make their own decision.
Some consumers don’t care, some others, like my self, wouldn’t buy a MacBook for this very reason. I prefer to buy from Dell or Lenovo or other companies in which I can upgrade and repair myself.
But I don‘t want the government to do me a favor by forcing these companies to do something they don’t want to do. Let the free market decides!

If we do nothing then Apple will have their way, making it harder to repair devices and creating more e-waste so it takes people standing up for what's right and if the government has to get involved then I don't think that's a bad thing.