UK Begins Market Investigation into Apple and Google's Mobile Dominance

[Wanted797]

So they going to spend potentially millions of dollars to go “yeah they’re a duopoly” something we already know.

But how tf are they planning to solve it?? You can’t force in a 3rd OS. And wouldn’t that be a Triopoly?

How is this any different to Windows and MacOS?

Sounds more like government trying to look busy while actually doing nothing.

 

[Gasu E.]

Government needs to stay out of people’s lives.

Sure they should. But whose lives would they be meddling in here? Phones are a commercial product, not a reproductive organ.

 

[Gasu E.]

How is this any different to Windows and MacOS?

Microsoft was investigated by governments extensively.

 

[Gasu E.]

There would not have been a need to "keep up" if Microsoft, Palm, Blackberry, Nokia hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel. They had major headstarts on Apple and should have been leading, not following. This is where they failed.

Look at the reactions and mentality:

Microsoft:

Black CEO 2007: Balsillie on the iPhone in February 2007: "It’s kind of one more entrant into an already very busy space with lots of choice for consumers ... But in terms of a sort of a sea-change for BlackBerry, I would think that’s overstating it."

Palm: “Is Apple serious competition?: Palm CEO Ed Colligan seems downright nonchalant about rumors that Apple may introduce a mobile phone to market in the coming year,” ...

Asleep at the wheel.

That's right. What they mostly failed to realize was that it was still an embryonic market, so there was lots of room for new entrants. Only BlackBerry had a defensible position, their proprietary network; and that eventually ended up as an albatross.

 

[mrochester]

Well, yes, but any new competition could simply take the same stuff and start competing, there is no show stoppers. Just like there are derivatives of Debian->Ubuntu->Mint or RedHat->CentOS/AlmaLinux and so on.

But it’s all still Linux. There’s nothing competing against Linux in your example. It’s all just remixes of the same thing. We have the same problem with AOSP.

 

[bergert]

Nokia, Samsung, and Microsoft - they all tried to break into the mobile OS game.

They all poured a TON of money to make it happen.

But they couldn't, because:

1. there was no market demand for a third OS (i.e. what could a third OS provide the other two can't?), and

2. app developers were not willing to support a third platform with a smaller user base.

This dynamic created what is effectively a duopoly that we see today.

It is natural and inevitable for governments to look into all duopolies, especially ones that impose their own policies and rules on all that use them.

I hope that governments reach sensible conclusions on this, but not holding my breath.

wrong. Microsoft had a mobile phone 5 years before the iPhone. But it sucked so much, nobody wanted to use it. And Blackberry said “the PC guys (meaning Apple) will not walk in, and prosper” - but that’s what happened. Granted, today the barrier to enter is as high as it was 2007: Apple releasing a phone, but no carrier, except 1, wanted to allow it on its network. Deja-vu? It was a very risky bet for Apple, to develop the iPhone- and the press kept saying it and Apple will fail (bancrupcy) next year, ever year, for the next 10 years. But somehow Apple got to where they are today.

 

[Wanted797]

Microsoft was investigated by governments extensively.

Yes when they were monopoly.

Currently they and Apple dominate the PC OS market. Just like Google and Apple dominate the mobile OS market.

 

[Wildkraut]

But it’s all still Linux. There’s nothing competing against Linux in your example. It’s all just remixes of the same thing. We have the same problem with AOSP.

Being anticompetitive by its definition is about the competition between companies, building the OS in a anticompetitive way, like Apple did, is just means to an end.

 

[SFjohn]

There may have been demand but not enough demand for a third OS.

Microsoft literally bribed app makers to port their apps to Windows Phone.

And the Windows Phone got great reviews.

Still, no one wanted it.

Or, perhaps a few million people did, but not the mass market that was required.

It’s a shame Android was allowed to copy the iPhone so literally. Microsoft had a very different and great phone OS that could have been amazing, but as you say there was no market for it by then… 🤬

 

[DownUnderDan]

All over the world the hounds of government have been unleashed on the tech industry. They're jealous how powerful Google and Apple have become.

Jealous? Why would you put such an emotion on a government agency? That makes no sense.

 

[AppliedMicro]

today the barrier to enter is as high as it was 2007: Apple releasing a phone, but no carrier, except 1, wanted to allow it on its network. Deja-vu? It was a very risky bet for Apple, to develop the iPhone- and the press kept saying it and Apple will fail (bancrupcy) next year, ever year, for the next 10 years. But somehow Apple got to where they are today.

You’re wildly off the mark in recalling the early days of the iPhone there.

Lots of carriers wanted to carry the iPhone. Apple just didn’t let them. They preferred raking in $$$ from exclusivity deals (that must have been expensive as hell, making quite some carriers walk away from it). And they wanted to have oversight and control the „experience“ and marketing. Carrying the iPhone was a way riskier bet for the carriers than for Apple.

Also, there was no talk of Apple failing or going bankrupt following the release of the iPhone - their iPod and Music business was already huge and profitable (by standards back then).

 

[AppliedMicro]

It’s a shame Android was allowed to copy the iPhone so literally. Microsoft had a very different and great phone OS that could have been amazing, but as you say there was no market for it by then… 🤬

They even had some great hardware from Nokia - but alas, the ecosystem of third-party apps was lacking, in contrast to Android and iOS.

 

[ackmondual]

Do you really not know what the government "produces"?

How about the education system, healthcare, public roads, parks, laws, fire departments, social programs?

Making sure companies don't get away with selling tainted meat, powerful companies dumping waste into a river where your home is downstream of, USPS, making sure child labor isn't a thing.

 

[wbeasley]

Market dominance is the result of consumers voting with their money on two proven systems.
Windows Phone was dreadful.
Nokia sold out in a dodgy deal that should have been investigated further.

We have to clear leaders.
Both with their own ecosystems and fans/users.

These governments are just wasting time and money.
No new system is going to pop up as a competitor and upset the long entrenched two systems. Not now as both have capable hardware and software to quickly respond to any competition.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Translation:
Another country/region has looked around and found, to their dismay, that the rules and regulations they set up to control the size of companies founded in their country/region has led to non-country/region companies providing the products and services that are in-demand worldwide. Such that HUGE sums of money are flowing from the citizens of the country/region to US companies (it’s always US companies).

With no ideas about how to make rules that allow their own companies to be competitive, they instead decide that their only course of action is to control the US companies. Thereby solidifying the worldwide control of those US companies.

I think that’s it.

 

[SFjohn]

Jealous? Why would you put such an emotion on a government agency? That makes no sense.

People run government agencies and they certainly have feelings. I’m not sure about jealousy, but governments certainly crave money, power, & intelligence. Apple effectively hides it’s users personal information, which all governments want access to. Plus large corporations can influence policy and support policy positions. Many government agencies & employees want job security (who doesn’t) and feel threatened by progressive companies like Google & Apple.

 

[MartyvH]

What I don’t understand about “investigations” like this, is that they’re seemingly viewing a market as if Apple and Google harmed its citizens to get to the point where their platforms are the only options people have. Yet, if they were to take a historical view, they’d realize (without wasting time and millions of dollars) that the smartphone and computer markets already went through significant changes over the course of the past 40 years and where we are at today is the result of consumer choice, not some bad actor big tech brands.

Exactly. We didn't need Androids or iPhones 10 years ago when smartphones got going. We wanted them. The mobile products and services industry grew up around the two new dominant platforms and Nokia and Blackberry were swept away. As a result of ordinary people walking into stores and a few knockout Apple keynotes. There was absolutely no obligation to spend the money and sign up with Apple or Google back then, but it was desirable and cool. Governments have rocks in their head if they think otherwise.

 

[svish]

Governments are scrutinizing Apple and Google more. But they are the biggest players in the market.

 

[SFjohn]

Governments are scrutinizing Apple and Google more. But they are the biggest players in the market.

Any government can make an Android phone for their population. Good luck with that! 😉

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple and Google won their market dominance by providing more value / utility than their competition.

Yes - and now they‘re restricting others from providing more value and utility (sometimes more than themselves). Which is their good right - well, until legislators decide to restrict it.

But how tf are they planning to solve it?? You can’t force in a 3rd OS.

No problem: you can regulate the behaviour and business conduct of a duopoly in law.
Broadly and generally (antitrust legislation) or specificly and explicitly (e.g. the EU’s Digital Markets Act)

How is this any different to Windows and MacOS?

Microsoft didn’t control the market for third-party apps even nearly as much as Apple or even Google.

We didn't need Androids or iPhones 10 years ago when smartphones got going

And you noticed what?

Governments did not investigate or regulate Apple and Google 10 years ago (except, the usual wireless bands, electric safety etc.) as they’re beginning to do now.

What I don’t understand about “investigations” like this, is that they’re seemingly viewing a market as if Apple and Google harmed its citizens to get to the point where their platforms are the only options people have. Yet, if they were to take a historical view, they’d realize (without wasting time and millions of dollars) that the smartphone and computer markets already went through significant changes over the course of the past 40 years and where we are at today is the result of consumer choice, not some bad actor big tech brands.

If we were to take a historical view, cocaine was first isolated by scientists in university research and commercialised as an analgesic and anaesthetic. They weren’t evil druglords and didn’t mean to harm citizens or turn them into drug addicts.

What matters to regulators and governments is not the history of how smartphones and mobile apps became popular and important today.
What matters is their importance and market conditions today.

 

[iPadified]

Apple and Google are larger than some countries - amazing that these two companies do not understand the value of being political and follow each countrys customs, values and expectations. The tech world seem to forget that they operate is global, multicultural and multi-political environment.

If Apple and Google withdraw from UK, the demand for a third or fourths OS would sky rocket and not only in UK. I don't believe these two are that stupid.

As at least western counties are very dependent on these companies to functions, an even more interesting question is if UK would see move to stop all mobile phones to function over night as a hostile against their national security. I do wonder what Washington would say about that and NATO?

Would you trust a company that take a whole country as a hostage by removing the operability of iOS an Android over night? I would not.

 

[wanha]

It’s a shame Android was allowed to copy the iPhone so literally. Microsoft had a very different and great phone OS that could have been amazing, but as you say there was no market for it by then… 🤬

Agree 100%.

That said, it was very impressive how quickly Google was able to pivot to turn Android from a Blackberry clone to an iOS one.

 

[wanha]

Market dominance is the result of consumers voting with their money on two proven systems.
Windows Phone was dreadful.
Nokia sold out in a dodgy deal that should have been investigated further.

We have to clear leaders.
Both with their own ecosystems and fans/users.

These governments are just wasting time and money.
No new system is going to pop up as a competitor and upset the long entrenched two systems. Not now as both have capable hardware and software to quickly respond to any competition.

I'd love to hear your backing to the claim why Windows Phone was dreadful?

Also, what was dodgy about the Nokia deal?

As someone who knows both of those quite well, these are new allegations. Educate me.

 

[mrochester]

I'd love to hear your backing to the claim why Windows Phone was dreadful?

Also, what was dodgy about the Nokia deal?

As someone who knows both of those quite well, these are new allegations. Educate me.

Yeah, windows phone was a great operating system, killed by google refusing to make its software and services available on it. But that was Google’s plan to strangle potential competition.

 

[SFjohn]

Agree 100%.

That said, it was very impressive how quickly Google was able to pivot to turn Android from a Blackberry clone to an iOS one.

Well Google’s CEO was sitting on Apple’s board while they were developing the iPhone. So it’s no wonder how and why Android was quickly released afterwards. Google’s CEO resigned from Apple’s board after Android was released. 🤭