Unionized Maryland Apple Store Workers Request 10% Raise and Option to Accept Customer Tips

[0924487]

Ah yes, I forgot that Universities exempt the econ dept from their IRBs/ERBs/REBs. Oh wait, they dont.

Economics is an observational science, not an experinmental science. Since Economics is a social science, not humanities, you can't just be delusional, do wishful thinking and make stuff up. There are no pespectives or ethics in Science, those topics are in humanities.

Univeristy ERBs don't have jurisdiction in the White House or on the Wall Street.

If a heart stops beating, a human will die. --- this is science.
Should a human die if the heart stops beating? --- this is not science.

 

[bluespark]

Should they be permitted to give customers the option to tip? Sure, but I really don’t see it going over well with people.

No, they shouldn't. The option to tip puts pressure on the consumer, and gives employers an easy "out" to pay employees less than what they are worth. This quickly creates a new norm where people feel obligated to tip something, and that spreads to other stores and other situations.

Tipping expectations are bad. They are bad in every industry. Employers should pay employees what they are worth and that should be it. If an employer can't pay enough, that business should close.

 

[seek3r]

Economics is an observational science, not an experinmental science.

Yeah, you don't seem to know what science is

Since Economics is a social science, not humanities, you can't just be delusional, do wishful thinking and make stuff up.

You don't seem to understand what humanities are

There are no pespectives or ethics in Science, those topics are in humanities.

Please for the love of everything go take an intro science course, literally any intro science course, this is going to get covered right after the scientific method. On like day one.

Univeristy ERBs don't have jurisdiction in the White House or on the Wall Street.

No, but laws that are informed by that research and both policy experts and the public's knowledge of it do

If a heart stops beating, a human will die. --- this is science.
Should a human die if the heart stops beating? --- this is not science.

However "ethically this kind of policy is problematic because research suggest this policy will cause people's hearts to stop beating and subsequently they will die" is very much part of science.

 

[0924487]

Yeah, you don't seem to know what science is



You don't seem to understand what humanities are



Please for the love of everything go take an intro science course, literally any intro science course, this is going to get covered right after the scientific method. On like day one.



No, but laws that are informed by that research and both policy experts and the public's knowledge of it do



However "ethically this kind of policy is problematic because research suggest this policy will cause people's hearts to stop beating and subsequently they will die" is very much part of science.

That's a lot of unfalsifiable arguments.

I have taken my fair share of Science courses considering that I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and another degree in Econometrics.

In every STEM department, there is a plug-in "ethics police", but they are not STEM.

Not everything a STEM person does is STEM-related.

Just because STEM people can advise on ethics, doesn't mean ethics is a part of STEM.

Many Electrical Engineers work in the field of Psychology and Neuroscience, specifically on social robotics and organizational behaviour research. It doesn't mean those subjects are Electrical Engineering.

Mr. Bean is actually an Electrical Engineer by education. It doesn't mean comedy is Engineering.

Observational science:

Observational science - wikidoc

www.wikidoc.org

 

[Krizoitz]

Most people in America are no working in a union job, and are not working 6 days a week 10 hours a day for half pay.

Because unions fought for that decades ago. Being ignorant of history doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

 

[cmcbhi]

Again..... You're making it out to be that if a pet dies, they get 45 days off in one go. That isn't the case.

They are wanting 45 days of paid bereavement leave a year, NOT PER LEAVE. So if they need 2 days to grieve a lost pet, they can. Then lose a parent and need 10 days, boom they can. A close friend died, 7 days. All of that coming out of that 45 day bank.

The actual contract language will likely spell out the max limit of days off for a loss of a pet to limit abuse. Don't assume if the union gets this, the company will just give it to them cart blanc and not want contract language to prevent giving out all 45 days in one go for a loss of a pet. If the company lawyers/negotiators fail on that, that is their own fault.

So, at Thanksgiving, I haven't used any bereavement leave. My cat is feeling poorly.
I need time off to care for and support him. See ya after New Years.

 

[quagmire]

So, at Thanksgiving, I haven't used any bereavement leave. My cat is feeling poorly.
I need time off to care for and support him. See ya after New Years.

Feeling poorly won't qualify for bereavement leave.....

Do you think current apple store employees claim their grandma died every year to use their 2 weeks currently if they didn't use them yet?

You also don't know what the contract language will be. They could spell out what each reason for bereavement leave can be so long. Pet dying could only qualify for up to 3-4 days for example.

Without more information and contract language, no one can say crap about this. The only thing we can say it isn't 45 days per leave and a reason for it to be used is for pets and close friends along with family.

 

[cmcbhi]

"Do you think current apple store employees claim their grandma died every year to use their 2 weeks currently if they didn't use them yet? "
I doubt many current Apple employees would do this, but most Apple employees didn't sigh up for a union either.
Do I think an Apple union employee would do this?
Darned right I do.

 

[cmcbhi]

I, personally, know of a BF Goodrich labor union that forced the plant to keep a drunk on the job because "he needed the paycheck."

 

[seek3r]

"Do you think current apple store employees claim their grandma died every year to use their 2 weeks currently if they didn't use them yet? "
I doubt many current Apple employees would do this, but most Apple employees didn't sigh up for a union either.
Do I think an Apple union employee would do this?
Darned right I do.

You do know HR tracks bereavement leave, right? I get similar bereavement leave at work (in fact when my MIL passed I had *months* more available bereavement leave had I needed it than my wife at her job, and she just lost her *mom*) and folks dont abuse it. Like you guys realize managers talk to their employees too, right?

If your grandmother died every year HR and your manager would start asking serious questions.

 

[cmcbhi]

You know, a more generous Paid Day Off policy would be better.
Why should you get days off just because you chose to breed?
Why should I not get days off because I chose not to add to the population overload of the earth.
Just give all the same numbers of "Days Off".

 

[seek3r]

You know, a more generous Paid Day Off policy would be better.
Why should you get days off just because you chose to breed?
Why should I not get days off because I chose not to add to the population overload of the earth.
Just give all the same numbers of "Days Off".

As someone else who doesnt have kids:

Because giving birth can be pretty rough for one, and while it’s obvioisly rougher on the person giving birth it also shifts a lot of work, worry, and responsibility onto the spouse or partner too justifying if they’re the ones getting parental leave - and the majority of people having kids arent adopting or using a surrogate.

Outside of that because we all benefit when folks who have kids get time off to care for them. It lessens poverty, reduces both tax burden and crime over time, and gives parents more of a chance to give the kids whose taxes will pay for our services and aid in retirement the chance to succeed to pay those taxes.

Also because parents do have unique challenges those of us who arent parents dont, and I’d rather have coworkers who arent havent a nervous breakdown because they were forced back to work too soon after having kids?

 

[cmcbhi]

Sorry, Seeker, not good enough. Breeding is its own responsibility. One shouldnt expect me to take up the slack another’s a sense causes. We should share “Paid Days Off“ equally. You that yours however you wish, as will I. You, or a new parent, is not a “super special entitled person” entitled to have us make up for his/her absence.
iWork hard and will do my work. I shouldn’t have to to extra work because another wants his/her “special time off”.

 

[seek3r]

Sorry, Seeker, not good enough. Breeding is its own responsibility. One shouldnt expect me to take up the slack another’s a sense causes. We should share “Paid Days Off“ equally. You that yours however you wish, as will I. You, or a new parent, is not a “super special entitled person” entitled to have us make up for his/her absence.
iWork hard and will do my work. I shouldn’t have to to extra work because another wants his/her “special time off”.

I’d much rather not have my new-parent-not-getting-any-sleep-5-seconds-from-a-nervous-breakdown-still-physically-recovering-from-birth coworker leave me work to cover than have them touch production systems

And honestly if a couple people out on parental leave is leaving *you* overworked that’s a hiring problem, it means your job is understaffed.

Your bus factor (ie: what happens if someone gets hit by a bus tomorrow?) is waaaaay too low.

While everyone on my team has specialties, bailiwicks we own, we all can handle other pieces as well. When someone’s out unexpectedly we can and do shift some low priority things out of the way and accommodate without anyone getting overworked. With parental leave it’s even easier since we can plan for months around it.

Sounds to me like you’re mad at your coworkers when you should be mad at your employer

 

[cmcbhi]

Seeker, my only beef with my employer is that he/she might give people pay for staying home and leaving the rest to take up the slack. Give all the “special people leave“ you wish, just make it unpaid. You want 45 days off, then pay me extra to do your work and I’m good.
paid leave only works in large organizations. In small shops, it just doesn’t work. If I have to hire more workers to get your job done, it will come out of your salary.
No matter what you say, the workers present have to pay for the ones staying home for whatever reason.

 

[redbeard331]

It's been said before, but retail jobs and fast food jobs are not meant to provide a sustainable living and anyone who thinks that is not living in reality. They are a way for people to learn how to show up to work on time, follow instructions, learn to work with different people, learn a little about working with the public. Maybe a manager should make enough, but not an associate on the floor. The higher the skill and higher the responsibility, the more one should make. Stop making menial jobs - ones without much skill - worth more than they are.

Says who? You? I see this often repeated but never any reason or explanation as to why certain jobs should be expected to be performed for a little as possible, especially when it’s for some multi-billion dollar corporation.

Also, what most people seem to have totally missed out on, and never seem to want to talk about is the reason why so many people these days are working these jobs. And why they aren’t all just “teenagers getting skills in an entry level position”.

Not everybody can afford to go to college, and someone has to do these jobs still, right? People want to talk about how everyone should just get a degree and a better job, but let’s not skip out on facts here. College degrees are quite a bit more expensive than when people’s boomer parents got theirs. Kids from wealthy families get into good schools not because they are smarter or harder workers than everyone else, but because they got lucky.

In many areas of the country literally the only jobs are retail, all those skilled jobs got sent overseas all so that a very small number of rich people who owned the companies could get even richer. I remember when NAFTA was being passed and pushed by certain people how they claimed it would benefit Americans, but what they didn’t tell people was that it would only benefit the wealthiest Americans, and that everyone else would suffer. Towns that had good manufacturing jobs lost them to countries with no labor laws and were left with in some cases only a Wal-Mart. Now that same Wal-Mart underpays their employees forcing many of them to be on welfare and who pays for that?

So it’s not so simple to toss out these claims based on nothing but opinions and philosophy when people don’t know much about why things are the way they currently are. I see a lot of talk about how greedy unions are, or young people who just “flip burgers”, but never any talk about the insatiable greed of CEO’s who earn millions or billions of dollars every year, people who spend more time on the back nine than they do actually doing any sort of work. We are in a race to the bottom, and instead of trying to change that people are blaming those that have the least power and wealth. And what’s terrible about all of it is that through the depression of wages and the huge rise of billionaires in this country, it’s created the system where our entire government is corrupted. We basically live in an oligarchy and have no say in what our government does because they are busy everyday meeting with lobbyists who have them on speed dial.

Also, there’s a large bit of hypocrisy I see here. Lots of people talking about how tipping should made illegal, and how companies need to pay their employees well so that tipping isn’t necessary. Ok yes I think a lot of people could get on board with that! Oh wait, same peeps don’t want those people paid well either, and argue against things like a minimum wage. Ok well it just seems like they want to create a permanent underclass and further enrich the wealthy which is a detriment to everyone as you can see how that system works any any third world country.

Are people also aware that corporations have their own unions? Wanna talk about greed and corruption, labor unions can’t hold a candle to corporate unions.

 

[cmcbhi]

[QUOTE="OriginalAppleGuy, post: 32148811, member: 1049415"

It's been said before, but retail jobs and fast food jobs are not meant to provide a sustainable living and anyone who thinks that is not living in reality. They are a way for people to learn how to show up to work on time, follow instructions, learn to work with different people, learn a little about working with the public. Maybe a manager should make enough, but not an associate on the floor. The higher the skill and higher the responsibility, the more one should make. Stop making menial jobs - ones without much skill - worth more than they are.

Says who? You? I see this often repeated but never any reason or explanation as to why certain jobs should be expected to be performed for a little as possible, especially when it’s for some multi-billion dollar corporation.

Also, what most people seem to have totally missed out on, and never seem to want to talk about is the reason why so many people these days are working these jobs. And why they aren’t all just “teenagers getting skills in an entry level position”.

Not everybody can afford to go to college, and someone has to do these jobs still, right? People want to talk about how everyone should just get a degree and a better job, but let’s not skip out on facts here. College degrees are quite a bit more expensive than when people’s boomer parents got theirs. Kids from wealthy families get into good schools not because they are smarter or harder workers than everyone else, but because they got lucky.

In many areas of the country literally the only jobs are retail, all those skilled jobs got sent overseas all so that a very small number of rich people who owned them could get even richer. I remember when NAFTA was being passed and pushed by certain people how they claimed it would benefit Americans, but what they didn’t tell people was that it would only benefit the wealthiest Americans, and that everyone else would suffer. Towns that had good manufacturing jobs lost them to countries with no labor laws and were left with in some cases only a Wal-Mart. Now that same Wal-Mart underpays their employees forcing many of them to be on welfare and who pays for that?

So it’s not so simple to toss out these claims based on nothing but opinions and philosophy when people don’t know much about why things are the way they currently are. I see a lot of talk about how greedy unions are, or young people who just “flip burgers”, but never any talk about the insatiable greed of CEO’s who earn millions or billions of dollars every year, people who spend more time on the back nine than they do actually doing any sort of work. We are in a race to the bottom, and instead of trying to change that people are blaming those that have the least power and wealth. And what’s terrible about all of it is that through the depression of wages and the huge rise of billionaires in this country, it’s created the system where our entire government is corrupted. We basically live in an oligarchy and have no say in what our government does because they are busy everyday meeting with lobbyists who have them on speed dial.

Also, there’s a large bit of hypocrisy I see here. Lots of people talking about how tipping should made illegal, and how companies need to pay their employees well so that tipping isn’t necessary. Ok yes I think a lot of people could get on board with that! Oh wait, same peeps don’t want those people paid well either, and argue against things like a minimum wage. Ok well it just seems like they want to create a permanent underclass and further enrich the wealthy which is a detriment to everyone as you can see how that system works any any third world country.

Are people also aware that corporations have their own unions? Wanna talk about greed and corruption, labor unions can’t hold a candle to corporate unions.
[/QUOTE]
Talk about a crybaby.
1). Jobs went overseas because unions priced themselves out of the market.
2). If you don’t like our government, planes are leaving for your ideal country every day.
3). Corporations don’t have unions.
4). Actual worker jobs, plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians etc earn more that college graduates in arts and languages. There are many unfilled jobs out there because many of todays kids don’t want to get up and, you know, work for a living.

 

[redbeard331]

Says who? You? I see this often repeated but never any reason or explanation as to why certain jobs should be expected to be performed for a little as possible, especially when it’s for some multi-billion dollar corporation.

Also, what most people seem to have totally missed out on, and never seem to want to talk about is the reason why so many people these days are working these jobs. And why they aren’t all just “teenagers getting skills in an entry level position”.

Not everybody can afford to go to college, and someone has to do these jobs still, right? People want to talk about how everyone should just get a degree and a better job, but let’s not skip out on facts here. College degrees are quite a bit more expensive than when people’s boomer parents got theirs. Kids from wealthy families get into good schools not because they are smarter or harder workers than everyone else, but because they got lucky.

In many areas of the country literally the only jobs are retail, all those skilled jobs got sent overseas all so that a very small number of rich people who owned them could get even richer. I remember when NAFTA was being passed and pushed by certain people how they claimed it would benefit Americans, but what they didn’t tell people was that it would only benefit the wealthiest Americans, and that everyone else would suffer. Towns that had good manufacturing jobs lost them to countries with no labor laws and were left with in some cases only a Wal-Mart. Now that same Wal-Mart underpays their employees forcing many of them to be on welfare and who pays for that?

So it’s not so simple to toss out these claims based on nothing but opinions and philosophy when people don’t know much about why things are the way they currently are. I see a lot of talk about how greedy unions are, or young people who just “flip burgers”, but never any talk about the insatiable greed of CEO’s who earn millions or billions of dollars every year, people who spend more time on the back nine than they do actually doing any sort of work. We are in a race to the bottom, and instead of trying to change that people are blaming those that have the least power and wealth. And what’s terrible about all of it is that through the depression of wages and the huge rise of billionaires in this country, it’s created the system where our entire government is corrupted. We basically live in an oligarchy and have no say in what our government does because they are busy everyday meeting with lobbyists who have them on speed dial.

Also, there’s a large bit of hypocrisy I see here. Lots of people talking about how tipping should made illegal, and how companies need to pay their employees well so that tipping isn’t necessary. Ok yes I think a lot of people could get on board with that! Oh wait, same peeps don’t want those people paid well either, and argue against things like a minimum wage. Ok well it just seems like they want to create a permanent underclass and further enrich the wealthy which is a detriment to everyone as you can see how that system works any any third world country.

Are people also aware that corporations have their own unions? Wanna talk about greed and corruption, labor unions can’t hold a candle to corporate unions.

Talk about a crybaby.

You’ve already lost the argument when your first response to my facts are insults. I am a kind man but also a greatly informed man. I suggest before you start hurling insults and getting testy, you at the very least spend some time informing yourself on these issues and maybe going to a community college and taking some political science courses, history, and maybe something along the lines of critical thought. It can only help you through these tough times you find yourself in, brother.

1). Jobs went overseas because unions priced themselves out of the market.

This is false, get better information. Greedy sociopathic CEO’s sent factories overseas seeking cheap labor, and didn’t even lower prices for Americans after doing so. You were too young to know about how these things took place over the past 50 years, and they don’t teach about them in high school.

2). If you don’t like our government, planes are leaving for your ideal country every day.

Thank you for this info, I’m not sure if you understand what form of government we have here because it’s been corrupted top to bottom. My issue isn’t with government in general, but the people that have corrupted it, and like the patriot I am, I want to stay here and fix it. The founders of this nation are rolling in their graves over the current oligarchy we’ve become, and I have to assume they wouldn’t urge people to pack up and leave instead of fighting for it. Maybe you were thinking of leaving yourself? i have no idea why you’d project that onto me as I have no plans on going anywhere.

3). Corporations don’t have unions.

Oh yes they do, are you sure you want to continue with this?

Here’s a list of them, they just call them “trade groups”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_industry_trade_groups_in_the_United_States

4). Actual worker jobs, plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians etc earn more that college graduates in arts and languages.

And? Do you have a point?

There are many unfilled jobs out there because many of todays kids don’t want to get up and, you know, work for a living.

That’s about the most out of touch thing I’ve ever heard, nothing but opinion that’s passed around on Facebook memes and pr people for corporations. Next thing you know, you’re going to tell us it’s because kids today blow all their money on avocado toast!

Americans work harder than ever, are more productive than ever, at the same time as inequality gets worse and worse. Why is that? It’s because corporations have too much power, far too much, and all the gains in the last 50 years have gone to the rich, eroding the middle class, and increasing levels of poverty.

Please bring some verifiable facts next time, not grade school insults, we here at the center are above that. Toodles!

 

[avz]

Why should you get days off just because you chose to breed?

Breeding is its own responsibility. One shouldnt expect me to take up the slack another’s a sense causes.

Because maintaining population is good for the future of the country?

Nobody expects you to have statesmanship competencies to understand the true depth of it but even you probably understand on a gut level that it is everybody's responsibility to make sure that the country still exists tomorrow.

 

[cmcbhi]

Because maintaining population is good for the future of the country?

Nobody expects you to have statesmanship competencies to understand the true depth of it but even you probably understand on a gut level that it is everybody's responsibility to make sure that the country still exists tomorrow.

As you seem to not understand, I think you should have as many kids as you can feed and take care of. Just don’t expect me to pay for them and do your work while you do.

 

[cmcbhi]

Because maintaining population is good for the future of the country?

Nobody expects you to have statesmanship competencies to understand the true depth of it but even you probably understand on a gut level that it is everybody's responsibility to make sure that the country still exists tomorrow.

Friend, there are plenty of well paying jobs out there for those who are willing show up on time, work hard and can pass a drug test and a record check. Trade schools and community colleges are affordable and jobs pay well.
Unions are parasites that steal paychecks.

 

[avz]

As you seem to not understand, I think you should have as many kids as you can feed and take care of. Just don’t expect me to pay for them and do your work while you do.

You still don't get it. Your country/state is never a given.

Unions are parasites that steal paychecks.

Slogans are just that, slogans.

You can also say that the Fed is a parasite that only prints money and influences the Great Depression in order to promote its own perceived self-importance.

 

[cmcbhi]

Because maintaining population is good for the future of the country?

Nobody expects you to have statesmanship competencies to understand the true depth of it but even you probably understand on a gut level that it is everybody's responsibility to make sure that the country still exists tomorrow.

Friend, there are plenty of well paying jobs out there for those who are willing show up on time, work hard and can pass a drug test and a record check. Trade schools and community colleges are affordable and jobs pay well.
Unions are parasites that steal paychecks.

 

[cmcbhi]

And, if our employer forces me to do your work while you "bond" with your new li'l darling, you can be sure I'll be very reluctant to cut you any slack anywhere else.

 

[avz]

1). Jobs went overseas because unions priced themselves out of the market.

Wrong. Jobs went overseas because of the way the Bretton Woods system is currently setup. You don't get the benefits without having to pay "a certain price". The fact that this system is no longer working or desirable is another conversational topic.

And, if our employer forces me to do your work while you "bond" with your new li'l darling, you can be sure I'll be very reluctant to cut you any slack anywhere else.

I knew you are just jealous.