Vision Pro is a Great Success!

[sw1tcher]

This is a counter to the other thread to set a few facts straight:

The Vision Pro is Apple’s first real attempt to create a product category rather than just define it. This is what I would call ‘Classic Sony’.

You want to set a few facts straight, but you post a bunch of non-facts.

First, the Augmented/Virtual Reality headset category is not new. It's been around for years.

The Vision Pro retails for the same cost as a Mac Studio and as such is aimed at a similar customer base: industry, devs and early adopters.

Based on the apps currently available and during the product introduction at the June 2023 launch event where Apple showed off the immersive experience of watching Disney+ content, playing games, and facetime chats with friends and family members, the Vision Pro target market is the regular consumer.

The Vision Pro, a device in the same niche product category has sold 400k units in the space of 3 months after only being available in one territory.

So to summarise the ‘failed’ Vision Pro has done double the annual sales of its nearest comparatively priced Apple product in a quarter of the time.

Apple hasn't sold 400K units in the space of 3 months because (1) it hasn't been on sale for 3 months yet and (2) Apple has not provided us with unit sales data and they don't plan to any time soon. I bet they won't tell us unit sales when they report quarter earnings on May 2.

The 400K number you're using is the estimated number of units an analyst (Ming-Chi Kuo) expects Apple to ship for ALL of 2024.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

This is what I do when I'm demoing the AVP for others. Guest mode, which I've used a couple times, is too much of a pain as it is. Of course, this doesn't give the observer the same experience as putting the AVP on. I also agree there should be a way to create and save other profiles, even if they're time-limited. Apple isn't doing themselves a favor by not making it easier to let others try the AVP. I think they wanted people to go to a store for a "curated experience," but some folks don't have the time or inclination. But if they can get a better feel for the AVP from an owner, it might get them interested enough to do the full store demo, where they could also test different light seals and cushions.

Hopefully they fix Guest mode so it doesn't feel like a Change of Command ceremony every time you want to let someone else try it.

 

[SRemington]

I concur with some other user‘s statements regarding the Vision Pro being a Gen1. I think the greatest success was getting the headset out. They were definitely overselling its features (just as all the other headset companies, especially Meta), and it’s overall user experience. Achieving the seamless, futuristic AR/VR experience that all the movies try to show us is still years, perhaps decades away.

However, Apple needed the Gen1 now, to get all the developers to play around with it and develop new apps, while at the same time sampling an early adopter crowd on their usage behaviour. This may not be that much of a monetary success, but the data Apple is currently gathering will be invaluable to improve future versions and getting us closer to the AR/VR Sci-if dream they keep selling us.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Outside of “It failed because we told you so” invested in failure of AVP. I have heard pretty good views on Vision Pro from the owners. It isn’t perfect just like any first gen product including original iPhone, iPad an AW. I highly doubt Apple is going to scrap it after AVP bringing in more than Billion dollars in revenue.

I am not the Gen 1 customer but, I would love to use spatial computing when I am traveling. Working on 16 MBP is a pain, I could use a stand alone device, that can enhance my work and entertainment. It’s like headphones for vision.

Give it a try after VisionOS gets to 2.0. I like it as it is, and I know it will get much better.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

I wish people would stop treating Kuo as gospel. He clearly has his own agenda.

In January, Kuo said Apple sold almost 200K US preorders, and Apple's maximum global shipment volume in 2024 was 500K units. That 500K number was reported in numerous publications to be the maximum number because Apple was constrained by Sony's OLED displays. Also, in February Kuo said Apple's target for 2024 was 150-200K units in the US. So where on earth is he getting the 700K-750K number? Surely he didn't think Apple was going to sell 200K in the US and 500K in the rest of the world?

I don't really pay much attention to Kuo. I think sometimes he throws rumors and waits to see what sticks, then updates them based on a new hunch.
These days, most rumors are nothing more than click-bait.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

You lost me with your claim that you actually can tell what other people want.

I've only ignored perhaps one or two people since joining MacRumors more than 20 years ago. Congrats on being the third.

How do you think business works?

 

[SirithX]

MKBHD had a great WVFRM podcast episode recently with Hugo Barra on why he's bullish on the Vision Pro and VR/AR long-term. Lots of great insights on how tech companies are finding niches in the market and what exactly they need to do and accomplish before these devices become more mainstream. Highly recommend for everyone here interested in this space generally. Haters need not apply.

 

[Jensend]

This is a counter to the other thread to set a few facts straight:

The Vision Pro is Apple’s first real attempt to create a product category rather than just define it. This is what I would call ‘Classic Sony’.

Uh, have you heard of the Quest line of products? Sure, the Vision Pro has a different focus, but there is a ton of overlap in feature set and design.

The Vision Pro retails for the same cost as a Mac Studio and as such is aimed at a similar customer base: industry, devs and early adopters.

The Mac Studio is aimed at early adopters?
Most people who would need a Mac Studio over a Mac Mini probably wouldn't be satisfied with a mobile-class OS.

Looking at the Mac Studio for a second, Apple sold 22m Macs last year, of which 90% were laptops. This means it sold 2.2m desktops. The Mac Studio makes up 1% of sales meaning it sold 220k last year worldwide.

The Vision Pro, a device in the same niche product category has sold 400k units in the space of 3 months after only being available in one territory.

Only if your definition of the category is based on number of sales and price, which is nonsensical. It's like saying a super fancy car and a starter home are in the same category because they cost the same.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Uh, have you heard of the Quest line of products? Sure, the Vision Pro has a different focus, but there is a ton of overlap in feature set and design.

The Mac Studio is aimed at early adopters?
Most people who would need a Mac Studio over a Mac Mini probably wouldn't be satisfied with a mobile-class OS.

Only if your definition of the category is based on number of sales and price, which is nonsensical. It's like saying a super fancy car and a starter home are in the same category because they cost the same.

The anaology of starter home is not valid, home is needed, renting or owning. Comparison about Mac Studio is pretty close.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Give it a try after VisionOS gets to 2.0. I like it as it is, and I know it will get much better.

I am planning to take an appointment to try AVP in few months. I tried Occulus, it’s not even close to AVP or what I am looking for in a vision device. It’s like saying blackberry and Nokia were smart phones before iPhone. Sure there was a category of smart phones but nothing like iPhone.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

I am planning to take an appointment to try AVP in few months. I tried Occulus, it’s not even close to AVP or what I am looking for in a vision device. It’s like saying blackberry and Nokia were smart phones before iPhone. Sure there was a category of smart phones but nothing like iPhone.

If your eyes require different magnification, you may notice some windows may appear slightly tilted. if it bothers you, you can always return the inserts, and try the standard reading inserts.

 

[kc9hzn]

You shouldn’t regret it. It’s cool tech. We see this with anything that’s priced out of someone’s reach. If it fails now or later, then they don’t feel bad they can’t get it.

From using it for a few weeks and from what I hear is that in general people run out of things to do with avp after exhausting the movie watching. This is on apple.

I don’t know. Maybe bundle it with a magic kb and trackpad? I think if you want to push spatial computing then push it from the get go. The initial setup should walk through setting up kb and trackpad.

To be honest I never paired one up. I tried the Mac thing once or twice. Movies were a blast. But in general it wasn’t enough for me. I need to see more from Apple as many of the frustrations I had with it should’ve been addressed by Apple and all to do with software, apps, the store, discovery, etc.

Ah, thank goodness I never really planned on using one for movie watching. Honestly, the thing I’m most looking forward to about it is hands free web browsing. Being able to scroll through a recipe without needing to wash my hands before grabbing my phone will make cooking new dishes a whole lot easier. Plus, multitasking while a YouTube video is going would be easier with it running in Safari on Vision Pro. I was folding and putting away clothing yesterday and lost track of how many times my phone fell over.

Oh, and I’m very much looking forward to having an OmniFocus window open whenever I’m working. I think having the ability to have a custom Perspective open and anchored to a specific location would be amazing, at least in terms of having tasks visible when they’re available to do. Also, quick entry into OmniFocus while I work (I have to use a PC for work, so no OmniFocus quick entry on my desktop for me) will be great, that might be the killer app for me.

And yes, I’m perfectly aware of the, shall we say, less-than-innocent uses of hands-free internet browsing. It’s a shame, since there are so many innocent situations where hands-free internet browsing would be really useful.

 

[Ctrlos]

Uh, have you heard of the Quest line of products? Sure, the Vision Pro has a different focus, but there is a ton of overlap in feature set and design.

Its not quite the same. The Quest 2 could do passthrough but it was janky as heck. LiDAR in the AVP makes it a great WFH device as it is always aware of where windows and apps have been left. Its possible to set up a whiteboard situation in one room, have a bigger mac display in another and then leave all sorts of notes and timers around the house. The 2-hour battery isn't an issue if you are always within distance of a mains socket.

Its kind of like comparing a PlayStation 5 to a Sega Saturn.

 

[Ctrlos]

Based on the apps currently available and during the product introduction at the June 2023 launch event where Apple showed off the immersive experience of watching Disney+ content, playing games, and facetime chats with friends and family members, the Vision Pro target market is the regular consumer.

The pricing says otherwise. Apple's marketing was about creating mindshare and also very wrong. As with the Watch the market will dictate where they take v2.

I can also play games, watch D+ and Facetime friends on a Mac Studio but its not aimed at me.

 

[Jensend]

Its not quite the same.

Of course it's not exactly the same, but it's not wildly different either.

The Quest 2 could do passthrough but it was janky as heck.

Quest 3 passthrough is less janky than Quest 2 passthrough.
The Quest 3 passthrough makes different tradeoffs than the Vision Pro. The Q3 displays near-field objects with more accurate size, but that leads to warping. I'm guessing that one of the primary reasons they chose that tradeoff is so the controllers and their virtual representations would line up.

LiDAR in the AVP makes it a great WFH device as it is always aware of where windows and apps have been left. Its possible to set up a whiteboard situation in one room, have a bigger mac display in another and then leave all sorts of notes and timers around the house.

I've been able to place windows anywhere in my room with my PC VR headset for several years now. It's tethered to my PC, so I can't leave apps anywhere in my house, of course. And it has awful passthrough quality.
It's less advanced than the Vision Pro windowing system in some ways, but more advanced in other ways. In addition to being able to place windows relative to the room, you can also place them relative to your controller. You can also bring up desktop windows over fully immersive apps.
Sometimes I play a game of VR mini-golf while streaming a video in a floating window.

Using a virtual whiteboard is easier when you have a controller.

I do like the idea of being able to arrange windows around my house. I just don't think the current implementation of it is so significant that it puts the Vision Pro into a fundamentally different product category.

Its kind of like comparing a PlayStation 5 to a Sega Saturn.

Maybe like comparing a Wii and a PS3. (though in terms of computer performance, the Q3 and VP are much more similar than the Wii and PS3)

But the PS5 and the Sega Saturn are the same product category, so I'm not sure that helps your argument that the Vision Pro defined a new category.

 

[Jensend]

The Vision Pro retails for the same cost as a Mac Studio and as such is aimed at a similar customer base: industry, devs and early adopters.

I can also play games, watch D+ and Facetime friends on a Mac Studio but its not aimed at me.

Developers develop on a Mac Studio for a Vision Pro. They are primarily using the Vision Pro to test the apps like Disney+ that they are making for the target audience of the Vision Pro.

You can't create an app for the Vision Pro using only the Vision Pro as a development tool.

Most industry users will be better off with something like a Varjo XR-4 attached to a PC with a RTX 4090.

That's not to say you can't do real work with a Vision Pro. But you can also do real work on an iPad.

I want Apple to be very successful with VR, along with many other companies (though I wish Meta wasn't their largest competitor).

 

[Japan Ricardo]

This is a counter to the other thread to set a few facts straight:

The Vision Pro is Apple’s first real attempt to create a product category rather than just define it. This is what I would call ‘Classic Sony’.

The Vision Pro retails for the same cost as a Mac Studio and as such is aimed at a similar customer base: industry, devs and early adopters.

Looking at the Mac Studio for a second, Apple sold 22m Macs last year, of which 90% were laptops. This means it sold 2.2m desktops. The Mac Studio makes up 1% of sales meaning it sold 220k last year worldwide.

The Vision Pro, a device in the same niche product category has sold 400k units in the space of 3 months after only being available in one territory.

So to summarise the ‘failed’ Vision Pro has done double the annual sales of its nearest comparatively priced Apple product in a quarter of the time.

These numbers are also very good for a device that has no real use case yet and is still finding its feet. It is still waiting for a software update to let you download mp3s onto it.

Hmmm. Not really a definition of "success".

People in most countries can't even buy it yet (as you acknowledged).

It's not a new product category, as Meta were first.

It has "no real use case" (your words).

It's ridiculous to compare it to the Mac Studio. Let's compare bicycles to toasters.

And it looks stupid.

I got a Series 0 Watch just after launch day. (Would have been ON launch day if I hadn't mistyped my credit card number and lost valuable seconds). It was first. It did have a use. It didn't look stupid.

 

[Delgibbons]

Its not quite the same. The Quest 2 could do passthrough but it was janky as heck. LiDAR in the AVP makes it a great WFH device as it is always aware of where windows and apps have been left. Its possible to set up a whiteboard situation in one room, have a bigger mac display in another and then leave all sorts of notes and timers around the house. The 2-hour battery isn't an issue if you are always within distance of a mains socket.

Its kind of like comparing a PlayStation 5 to a Sega Saturn.

QUEST 3 Passthrough is excellent. I’ve been using my phone through it. The 3 also has built in LIDAR for room mapping and maps your entire home, and identifies tables/chairs/TVs in AR etc. with the new v64 update. Night and day vs the Quest 2.

 

[shulerg]

It is too early to state whether the VP is a success or failure.

This. I remember the same kinds of threads about Apple Watch a decade ago.

 

[steveheffern]

I love my Vision Pro and use it every day. For what I use it for, the price makes it a bargain.

 

[Yoms]

Vision Pro is a Great Success!

and then...

A device that has no real use case yet and is still finding its feet.

🤣

 

[AlastorKatriona]

QUEST 3 Passthrough is excellent. I’ve been using my phone through it. The 3 also has built in LIDAR for room mapping and maps your entire home, and identifies tables/chairs/TVs in AR etc. with the new v64 update. Night and day vs the Quest 2.

It's glitchy and approximate, which you can see very clearly in that video. Like every other example of AR I've ever seen. It makes for a great tech demo, but can never be used for anything important or precise.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

That's not to say you can't do real work with a Vision Pro. But you can also do real work on an iPad.

Assuming "real work" consists of hunting and pecking at a spreadsheet. In which case sure, you can do "real work" on an iPad, or a VP. I don't consider that to be real work however.

 

[surferfb]

Assuming "real work" consists of hunting and pecking at a spreadsheet. In which case sure, you can do "real work" on an iPad, or a VP. I don't consider that to be real work however.

Oh this argument again.

It amazes me how often I get told I don't do "real work" on this forum, despite my hourly rate being over $100 an hour . I'd love for you to try to tell my boss, or my clients (who pay my company significantly more than my hourly rate for my services), that I don't do real work.

 

[Ctrlos]

It's ridiculous to compare it to the Mac Studio. Let's compare bicycles to toasters.

We are talking about two computing platforms from the same manufacturer. From the amount of ‘iPad Pro or MacBook Air?’ Threads we see of people looking for buying advice I’d say the comparison is apt.