I hope I'm wrong, but I think it will be a while before people will be able to watch sports live in immersive video. I think that would be very challeneging to do from a production standpoint. At least it woudl be if we're talking about cutting live between multiple camera angles. But perhaps it's workable if we're talking about having a single fixed immersive video camera positioned, say, courtside.
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Where is all the immersive content?
- Thread starter WingingIt
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If Apple were serious about promoting immersive video on the Apple Vision Pro, the Alicia Keys studio researsal would be just one in an ongoing series of immersive video mini concerts. Look at what Apple does to promote spatial audio on Apple Music - they have produced a series of exclusive "Apple Music Sessions" in spatial audio. Why can't they do the same thing for immersive video?
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There is so much more that Apple could offer in the way of concert programs, sports programs, and documentaries. They really shoud have had at least 10 hours of immersive video at launch, with a commitment to adding another 5 hours per month.
As I said in another post, if Apple isn't committed to producing a steady supply of professional immersive video content, then the next best thing they could do is provide a platform for hobbyists to generate their own content. YouTube has a substantial library of 3D, 180VR and 360VR content which has never been easily accessible via Mac devices. I'm sure much of the material is not up to Apple's standards. But it's something, whereas Apple is offering precious little at this point.
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There is so much more that Apple could offer in the way of concert programs, sports programs, and documentaries. They really shoud have had at least 10 hours of immersive video at launch, with a commitment to adding another 5 hours per month.
As I said in another post, if Apple isn't committed to producing a steady supply of professional immersive video content, then the next best thing they could do is provide a platform for hobbyists to generate their own content. YouTube has a substantial library of 3D, 180VR and 360VR content which has never been easily accessible via Mac devices. I'm sure much of the material is not up to Apple's standards. But it's something, whereas Apple is offering precious little at this point.
A single mid-court position might work for tennis, although even there, it would be good to also have views from both ends. The MLS demo gives a good preview of what to expect for larger playing fields, I think. Multiple camera views, with the control room choosing which one to show.
Dunno. Last time I tried AirPods had to return as they kept falling off.
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There are a few showing proof of concept.
1. Somewhat cringy AmazeVR Concerts. Only current full concert app I know.
2. Hugh Hou on Youtube (use moonplayer):
3. Deovr promises an app and content but not there yet.
You asked for an MLS video screenshot. Here it is.
It is quite awesome. DRM results in the screenshot above.
as above
It is (2) - very difficult, particularly for a live broadcast.
1. You have to get the right cameras.
2. You have to get the data from the cameras to the production booth. Very high bandwidth data.
3. Your production suite has to be revamped to handle 3D
4. You then have to have the higher capacity pipes to distribute it
5. Everything has to be re-throught. How do you do picture in picture - 2D, 3D? Replays?
"The experience bar will be very high, which means Apple will have to really customize every aspect of the experience to the nature of each sports to make it better than watching a game on a large 4K television — including camera angles, special replays, birds-eye visualizations, analysis overlays, game stats etc."
https://hugo.blog/2024/03/11/vision-pro/
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This is starting to get attention in the Apple press - thankfully. Gruber, MG Siegler, Jason Snell, and Ben Thompson have all written about this now, and Gruber talked about it on the Talk Show and Dithering.
I was super disappointed in the MLS video. Parts of it were great (in particular, the locker room celebration part was really cool. Really hope there is an immersive camera there for the entire celebration the next time one of my teams wins the championship), but I think there were ENTIRELY too many cuts - which completely ruined the immersiveness for me. I would much prefer a stationary position (or maybe 2-3 positions for sports with large fields like soccer and football) with the additional cameras there to show us replays or what not (if we want). IMO the good thing about the immersion is that you feel like you're there, and the frequent cuts back and forth totally broke the illusion for me.
This would also remove a lot of the production issues @HDFan mentioned above (although, of course, not all of them). Fewer camera angle decisions, no NEED for in-game overlays (I can look up/over at the scoreboard), no NEED for replays (look at the Jumbotron like the people who are there do). Of course there are some cool things you can do in the future - like if you're looking at a player and tap your fingers you could see their stats, maybe a little TV in your lap you can click into from immersive replays from a separate camera angle or whatever, but this would help get sports content out there much more quickly than the 5 months it took to get 5 minutes of a (in my opinion) poorly done highlight real. There is plenty of time to figure out the nice to haves and new experiences this format provides, but in the meantime just make me think I have front row/courtside tickets.
I was super disappointed in the MLS video. Parts of it were great (in particular, the locker room celebration part was really cool. Really hope there is an immersive camera there for the entire celebration the next time one of my teams wins the championship), but I think there were ENTIRELY too many cuts - which completely ruined the immersiveness for me. I would much prefer a stationary position (or maybe 2-3 positions for sports with large fields like soccer and football) with the additional cameras there to show us replays or what not (if we want). IMO the good thing about the immersion is that you feel like you're there, and the frequent cuts back and forth totally broke the illusion for me.
This would also remove a lot of the production issues @HDFan mentioned above (although, of course, not all of them). Fewer camera angle decisions, no NEED for in-game overlays (I can look up/over at the scoreboard), no NEED for replays (look at the Jumbotron like the people who are there do). Of course there are some cool things you can do in the future - like if you're looking at a player and tap your fingers you could see their stats, maybe a little TV in your lap you can click into from immersive replays from a separate camera angle or whatever, but this would help get sports content out there much more quickly than the 5 months it took to get 5 minutes of a (in my opinion) poorly done highlight real. There is plenty of time to figure out the nice to haves and new experiences this format provides, but in the meantime just make me think I have front row/courtside tickets.
But they released new episodes of the new shows every week. They didn't launch the pilots and then not put out new episodes for months.
will be able to find out shortly, generally dislike anything I have to put into my ear, especially for something as long as watching a movie. but am somewhat confused with your comment, as on the other Listening to Music on the Vision Pro you say "killer" VP apps for me is listening to music via my AirPods Pro 2." ? maybe I should have added the 2 after AP, but thought it was inferred due to AP not having the bells and whistles to work with VP. anyway all cool.
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Anyone remember when HDTV first came out? For those who don’t and a reminder to those who were around - it wasn’t fast. The 720P, 1080i formats in the 16x9 format took decades to agree to. There’s a lot to the story. But…..
Once it became standard, and the first publicly available TV sets came out - they were very expensive BTW - it took years for HDTV to become the norm. I was an early adopter and bought a 47” projector based TV. In my area, we had TV station engineers working with early adopters on ensuring they were able to provide the best product, and learned from the adjustments they made.
Thing is - it took years before cameras, production boards, distribution, everything - got updated. Even now - actual 4K (a format out for years now) TV production is minimal.
All that to say - no matter what you think Apple had at their disposal to provide immersive content, your thinking it flawed if you think they should be pushing out shows at a normal cadence. That sports broadcasting would be available in any form with immersive content. This is going to take time. It takes more than Apple to do production. And unless anyone here is actually 100% involved in producing such content, none of us has any idea what post is like. Consider once a movie is filmed, it takes months in post production to get it ready.
Another hobby of mine is home theater. I have a 5.4.1 setup for Atmos. Sound mixing is an incredibly complex process to get right. Some in the business have advised home mixes tend to get the shaft as they are not allotted the appropriate time to mix properly.
So how about we give Apple a little break here. There’s a lot more to releasing content than many realize. It’s coming. Be patient.
Once it became standard, and the first publicly available TV sets came out - they were very expensive BTW - it took years for HDTV to become the norm. I was an early adopter and bought a 47” projector based TV. In my area, we had TV station engineers working with early adopters on ensuring they were able to provide the best product, and learned from the adjustments they made.
Thing is - it took years before cameras, production boards, distribution, everything - got updated. Even now - actual 4K (a format out for years now) TV production is minimal.
All that to say - no matter what you think Apple had at their disposal to provide immersive content, your thinking it flawed if you think they should be pushing out shows at a normal cadence. That sports broadcasting would be available in any form with immersive content. This is going to take time. It takes more than Apple to do production. And unless anyone here is actually 100% involved in producing such content, none of us has any idea what post is like. Consider once a movie is filmed, it takes months in post production to get it ready.
Another hobby of mine is home theater. I have a 5.4.1 setup for Atmos. Sound mixing is an incredibly complex process to get right. Some in the business have advised home mixes tend to get the shaft as they are not allotted the appropriate time to mix properly.
So how about we give Apple a little break here. There’s a lot more to releasing content than many realize. It’s coming. Be patient.
It’s coming if there’s demand. You just described what the device is competing against: top notch sound and video that doesn’t require a heavy plastic computer on your face.
I mostly agree, having lived through several technology jumps, including the switch from mono to stereo and from black-and-white to color TV. I don't expect Apple to release immersive content at anything near the pace we've come to expect from TV series, but I'd have thought by now we would have seen a second episode of the two documentary series, Adventure and Wild Life.
True, but conventional AV systems can't do what the AVP does either. Thinking about the Adventure documentary about the rhino sanctuary, for example, I can't imagine any flat screen, no matter how good, making me feel like I could reach out and touch the animals, as I did (and still do) with the AVP.
So I definitely understand what you’re saying. And I take no pleasure in expressing an opinion different from yours.
But I think Apple, arguably above all others, really plays the long game. If they can create several short episodes of immersive content for Vision Pro launch, they can create more in two months. And if they can’t, they should have prepared better. They knew April would come two months after February. They knew there would be a demand for this content and made it a focus in their store demo. Apple even has their own production company.
All 3 of their immersive content documentaries are labeled as Season 1 Episode 1. I think it’s reasonable to expect more episodes in under 2 months given their other content normally releases new episodes weekly.
Waiting 2 months for new content seems plenty patient to me.
And at the risk of blathering on too long….
There’s no reason Apple couldn’t have started producing this content before the VP release. Shows are often in the can before the first episode airs. This should have all been planned out ahead of time.
There’s no reason Apple couldn’t have started producing this content before the VP release. Shows are often in the can before the first episode airs. This should have all been planned out ahead of time.
Apple used to be good about this sort of stuff.
Release one thing, and have all sorts of integrations with other products ready to go at day 1.
Now, they release product A, and then team B starts production of integration C, which gets released later on date D.
They need to bring it back to A,B,C, and D in one go, that's part of what made Apple, Apple.
I agree. Well said.
I feel like many times over the years I’ve found myself saying “Oh, that’s why they added that feature last year”
Wellllllll. Like Roller said, there are some things a home theater just can’t do. I have what I consider a home theater. 5.4.1 sound (awesome!) and a 65” OLED TV. With the VP, I can get up to what looks like a 200” screen EVERYWHERE.
So - I can take my movie, race (NASCAR and F1 fan here), whatever I’m watching, wherever I go. Can’t do that with my home theater. The sound is lacking unless I use the AirPods Pro 2 USB-C’s. VP sound is really good, just the base is more limited than I like. And yes, I don’t get the thump of my sub. But the Pro 2’s do help make up for it in what I hear.
And - if you secure it properly, I use the single band, the weight isn’t much. There have been times I’ve forgotten it was there.
I get why you feel the way you do. And they do have their own production company. What we don’t know is if they are resource strained or not. Don’t know what it takes to produce this stuff. Could be the “sales guy” oversold the capabilities of the company and they are trying to play catch up. We’ll find out, I’m sure. But for now, I’ll be patient.
With that said - I’m on 1.2 Beta now and the “Coming Soon” Environments STILL say “Coming Soon”. If anything - that doesn’t make sense
. I will say, the eye tracking for selection has improved which - is very welcomed here.
Wellllllll. Like Roller said, there are some things a home theater just can’t do. I have what I consider a home theater. 5.4.1 sound (awesome!) and a 65” OLED TV. With the VP, I can get up to what looks like a 200” screen EVERYWHERE.
So - I can take my movie, race (NASCAR and F1 fan here), whatever I’m watching, wherever I go. Can’t do that with my home theater. The sound is lacking unless I use the AirPods Pro 2 USB-C’s. VP sound is really good, just the base is more limited than I like. And yes, I don’t get the thump of my sub. But the Pro 2’s do help make up for it in what I hear.
And - if you secure it properly, I use the single band, the weight isn’t much. There have been times I’ve forgotten it was there.
I get why you feel the way you do. And they do have their own production company. What we don’t know is if they are resource strained or not. Don’t know what it takes to produce this stuff. Could be the “sales guy” oversold the capabilities of the company and they are trying to play catch up. We’ll find out, I’m sure. But for now, I’ll be patient.
With that said - I’m on 1.2 Beta now and the “Coming Soon” Environments STILL say “Coming Soon”. If anything - that doesn’t make sense
The screen inside your Vision is not the same as having an actual 200 inch screen.
1. They did. Several were available when it released.
2. Apple is not Netflix, releasing new content almost daily. They are more like the old HBO, taking their time to make it as good as they can.
3. This is new technology for them. They have to figure out how to do it and what works best. They won't release it until it is good.
4. It could be that the MLS highlights simply weren't ready and they had more work to do. Could be that they held it for a later release. No way to tell.
New content is coming but it won't happen that frequently, at least for now. Probably the best we can expect in the future is a release schedule similar to titles on Apple TV+ - a few titles a month.
Respectfully, that sounds like you’re explaining Apple to me by just giving me your opinions.
My entire point was the Apple could have done this better. Yes, they had enough shows for the demo with a single episode of each show. But there was nothing stopping them from having 6 or 10 episodes ready at launch to release on a regular schedule like any other series. I’m not demonizing them, but I bought a VP and I’m disappointed there isn’t any new content. I’m allowed to feel that way.
I get that it’s hard and new and different. That’s what companies do and what Apple often does well.
I agree that we don’t know why there isn’t more content. But there should be. If Apple couldn’t leap whatever hurdles were in its path then shame on them. I just can’t feel sorry for them as though I’m asking for something unreasonable. All of those hurdles should have been cleared long before now.I get why you feel the way you do. And they do have their own production company. What we don’t know is if they are resource strained or not. Don’t know what it takes to produce this stuff. Could be the “sales guy” oversold the capabilities of the company and they are trying to play catch up. We’ll find out, I’m sure. But for now, I’ll be patient.
With that said - I’m on 1.2 Beta now and the “Coming Soon” Environments STILL say “Coming Soon”. If anything - that doesn’t make sense
I’m definitely excited to see the new Environments!
Yeah - it’s not. But I don’t watch it that way, just making an example. Will tell you when it’s about 1/2 that size, it’s pretty darn good. I’d say it’s better than going to a movie theater and I enjoy it more than my 65” LG OLED - a model that’s highly rated.
I do wish the VP had better forward facing cameras, though. I’ll watch content on my LG while using the VP for other things. With “not real 4K content” it’s okay, but unwatchable with production 4K content.
Until very recently Apple characterized Apple TV as a hobby. Therefore expectations for content were low.
Apple characterizes Vision as a fully realized consumer product. Therefore content expectations are high.
It’s a mistake they shouldn’t have made. They should have launched Vision as a hobby in order to keep expectations in check.
Apple has announced they’ve got a new 5 minute or so “episode” of Prehistoric Planet coming later in April. Here’s to hoping now that WWDC is just around the corner and that Apple is gearing up to launch in other markets that they’ll have more immersive content coming soon at more regular intervals.
Immersive content was one of the selling points for me when I first saw and got to demo the device. It’s certainly not the entire reason I bought the device because I knew the content was going to be limited at first but with that being said it launched in February, it’s now April and if they don’t start releasing more immersive content on a more frequent basis they are guilty of a slightly misleading sales demo.
I don’t expect seasons upon seasons of multiple shows as this is all new technology that is expensive and time consuming to film properly, edit and do the other things involved in post production, etc. but I do expect more than 5 or 10 minutes being released every 2-3 months at some point sooner rather than later be it through Apple or some other party they contract with to get some content out there. If they don’t intend to do that then they really shouldn’t have spent much time showing off immersive content in their in-store demo.
Immersive content was one of the selling points for me when I first saw and got to demo the device. It’s certainly not the entire reason I bought the device because I knew the content was going to be limited at first but with that being said it launched in February, it’s now April and if they don’t start releasing more immersive content on a more frequent basis they are guilty of a slightly misleading sales demo.
I don’t expect seasons upon seasons of multiple shows as this is all new technology that is expensive and time consuming to film properly, edit and do the other things involved in post production, etc. but I do expect more than 5 or 10 minutes being released every 2-3 months at some point sooner rather than later be it through Apple or some other party they contract with to get some content out there. If they don’t intend to do that then they really shouldn’t have spent much time showing off immersive content in their in-store demo.
Yeah, I mean honestly, what a let down. I assumed there would be actual, real, full length content at some point. These are just technology showcase demos.
My guess is that when AppleTV+ are being pitched ideas for new feature length content they’re saying “now should we film it in spatial format or regular 2D? Hmm… well with the former we can reach an audience of about 12 people who have Vision Pros, whereas with the latter we can reach millions of people who have normal TVs, so let’s do the latter.” If Apple want the Vision Pro to succeed their top management need to tell the AppleTV+ division “I don’t care if it’s uneconomical at the moment, make feature length immersive content!”