Who's going Surface Book?

[AFEPPL]

My point is a simple one, stop throwing stones...

Firstly you need to understand a number of things, one is the OS is only "one part" of a system, the applications also play a huge part. The other is mac is not "free from issues" so lets just be honest and stop this crazy steve jobs type talk and say they are what they are. If people wanted to target BB or iOS, or windows or Mac - thats what they do.

 

[maartin]

OSX followed by iOS has more problems according to the experts..

I don't see how you came up with that false info?

Microsoft all versions: 248
OS X all versions: 147

Out of which there are 16 low vulnerabilities vs 0 on Windows.
Out of which there are 64 high vulnerabilities vs 168 on Windows.

 

[AFEPPL]

I didn't come up with anything, it's the "security experts"...
More here.. and i guess it's "false" because you don't want to agree with it?

And lol - so you add up the same issue more than once?
Im pretty sure you cant run 7, 8.1 all at the same time and get double the exposure.

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/product_id-156/Apple-Mac-Os-X.html
How about a time slice?
https://www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php?year=2015

To be clear, I'm not defending MS, and I'm most certainly not defending Apple either.
replication is the difference with windows, but to say its not an issue on mac is not true.

 

[aristobrat]

My point is a simple one, stop throwing stones...

ITo be clear, I'm not defending MS, and I'm most certainly not defending Apple either.
replication is the difference with windows, but to say its not an issue on mac is not true.

For the record, the conversation went like this (see quotes below).

Look at who threw the first stone, and look at how the Mac user responded to that stone being thrown. Who claimed Macs are issue/malware free?

All Mac fanboys think that they have the most secure OS but truth is more and more viruses, Trojans, malware etc is being coded for Mac.

No viruses EVER existed on OS X.

No viruses ever? Are you from planet earth?

I am not aware of a single OS X virus to be honest. Malware, yes, there is a lot of that, but that a different questions. But viruses?

 

[AFEPPL]

My comment wasn't aimed at one person, more the general mac mentality.
Look over the OS the biggest issue is actually application based.

 

[Harthag]

A huge issue that many uninformed people overlook is the SSD inside the Surface Book and SP4. There's a high probability you will get a Surface Book / SP4 with the craptastic Samsung PM951 SSD. I'm not going to paste a link, but the sequential write speed of the PM951 is on par with...SATA 2 in the case of the 128gb SSD...a tech that was released in 2004.

(Edit- here's a link): http://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...LV128HCGR?ia=831&CID=AFL-hq-mul-0813-11000170

The 256gb and 512gb are on par with or slower than SATA 3. Google this issue and also check out Anandtech and Reddit. Just pathetic and totally unacceptable for a "flagship" laptop / 2 in 1 released in 2015. Some reports of people getting lucky and scoring the "good" model with the latest gen Toshiba PCI-E SSD but few and far between, and it's a lottery.

I will gladly take the (Apple proprietary) Samsung SM951 equivalent SSD in my 2015 rMBP, which is what the SB and SP4 should've all shipped with. Throw the latest Dell XPS 13 and 15 into this mix too. Both of them use the PM951 as well. To each his own, but IMO anyone who shelled out $1500+ for any of these laptops equipped with the PM951 just wasted a ton of money.

 

[AFEPPL]

Difference is though.... win10, doesn't need an SSD to perform.
OS X does, its basically near unusable on conventional spinning media due to poor optimisation and bloat, so maybe (i don't know) it's a design choice that's been made because the cost benefit wasn't needed?

Whats the boot time and usability like? surely thats ALL that matters..

 

[Abstract]

There's a high probability you will get a Surface Book / SP4 with the craptastic Samsung PM951 SSD. I'm not going to paste a link, but the sequential write speed of the PM951 is on par with...SATA 2 in the case of the 128gb SSD...a tech that was released in 2004. The 256gb and 512gb are on par with or slower than SATA 3. Google this issue and also check out Anandtech and Reddit. Just pathetic and totally unacceptable for a "flagship" laptop / 2 in 1 released in 2015.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9727/the-microsoft-surface-pro-4-review-raising-the-bar/5

So with CrystalDiskMark we can see how the drive performs at more of its maximum speed. The results are pretty great. The write speed of 554MB/s is probably a victim of having fewer than the maximum number of NAND packages for the 256GB mode, but on the other hand read speeds of 1500 MB/s are pretty good. The random read and write is also very good. I’m really glad that Microsoft has gone all-in on storage here with PCIe and NVMe because these are premium products in their segment. If they would have stuck with SATA SSDs it would have been a knock against them. In real world usage, the ridiculous speeds are not seen all the time, but when you do tasks like copy a 6 GB movie file to a new folder, and it only takes a few seconds, you will appreciate the extra headroom that these drives offer.

They didn't say anything all that negative. They think it's fast.

 

[maflynn]

You really wouldn't say that if you had ever had to clean up after a true virus infection on Windows. The self-replication part of it is key and is what Macs are good at not allowing.

It has been a few years for me, but the memory lingers on.

Agreed, and that's the sort of stuff, as I ponder my buying decision that I need to keep in mind.

 

[Harthag]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9727/the-microsoft-surface-pro-4-review-raising-the-bar/5



They didn't say anything all that negative. They think it's fast.

The review sample contained the better performing Toshiba drive. The Samsung seq write speed, for the 256gb PM951 is about 300MB/s. This all was discovered after the review when retail units shipped with Samsung drives instead. I tested one myself on a SP4. With bitlocker disabled, the 256gb Toshiba drive is over 3 times faster than the 256gb Samsung in seq write. Faster than the review got.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3rcgdp/anandtech_confirms_two_different_ssd_brands_being/

Here's a link to the Samsung spec page for the 128gb variant:

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/MZVLV128HCGR?ia=831

And a link for the 256gb PM951:

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/flash-storage/client-ssd/MZVLV256HCHP?ia=831

People can rationalize purchase decisions all they want. The PM951 is a joke. I love the SP4 but returned it for this reason. Sure you won't notice a difference if you don't do write-intensive tasks. But that doesn't make it right. For $1000-$1500 I demand better, especially when I know that other models with the Toshiba drive exist. Point of my post was Apple didn't skimp on hardware at all in the 13" 2015 rMBP, and MS clearly did.

 

[Harthag]

Difference is though.... win10, doesn't need an SSD to perform.
OS X does, its basically near unusable on conventional spinning media due to poor optimisation and bloat, so maybe (i don't know) it's a design choice that's been made because the cost benefit wasn't needed?

Whats the boot time and usability like? surely thats ALL that matters..

What? Windows has / had the same issues when using HDD.

And yes, the PM951 was a design choice to cut costs on Microsoft's part. They dual sourced SSDs for the Surface Book and SP4. As did Apple with the chips in the iPhone 6S and 6S+ (to likely meet demand). Difference is that with Microsoft there's a HUGE performance difference between the two SSDs. With TSMC / Samsung in the iPhone, the difference is negligible.

 

[SnowLeopard OSX]

There are too many reasons to list why I'd never go from my Macbook Pro to a Surface book. Why would I pay more money for a computer that's less powerful, smaller, and uglier than the one I have right now?

Not happening. I already have a tablet, too. So the tacky "all-in-one" feature the Surface Book hinges on won't really do it for me, either.

 

[AFEPPL]

What? Windows has / had the same issues when using HDD.

And yes, the PM951 was a design choice to cut costs on Microsoft's part. They dual sourced SSDs for the Surface Book and SP4. As did Apple with the chips in the iPhone 6S and 6S+ (to likely meet demand). Difference is that with Microsoft there's a HUGE performance difference between the two SSDs. With TSMC / Samsung in the iPhone, the difference is negligible.

W10 works fine on HHD even on old hardware.
OS X on the mini is a nightmare.. SSD is basically a must for OS X now.

So it wasn't for cost, given they have two options and one runs fine, so its for demand. but regardless the SP works fine for me, its all about the experience - which granted is subjective. Maybe i was lucky as the one i was using must have been the faster one. I can't really pass judgement on something I've not seen/experienced.