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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,642
22,148
Singapore
Touch ID > Face ID. One of the things that confuses me most is that people seem to talk as if Face ID requires no touching of the phone. You still have to swipe up. You still need your fingers to interact with the phone, whether your fingers are wet, wintry dry, etc. You still need to take off your gloves (unless you've got those capacitive ones) to unlock the phone.

Touch ID doesn't require you tilt your head and hover over your phone while it lays flat on a table. Touch ID was far superior on Apple Pay as the "sensing" of NFC and authenticating the payment all happened with one gesture. The double tapping the power button is clunky and half the time I take a screen shot as I squeeze the power button and barely squeeze the volume button. Happens all the time.

Touch ID is a much more seamless experience than Face ID. Both require you to touch the screen, why not just let it be the one that doesn't require odd angles and the correct sunlight?
I think people misinterpret FaceID. The idea isn't to spend time analyzing how it works or whether it's slower than TouchID or not. The idea is that it blurs the perception of needing authentication at all to unlock your phone.

I think what Apple was going for was using FaceID to take care of all the security stuff behind the scenes so you don't have too. It removes having to think about authenticating to access something because faceID has already detected that it is you.

I can also cite a few scenarios where Face ID is more convenient than Touch ID. For example, I can autofill passwords in the browser or unlock apps protected with Face ID without needing to raise a finger to authenticate, since Face ID does this automatically in the background for me. If I take a photo using the camera app from the lock screen and then want to share it with a friend, I still need to unlock with Touch ID, but with Face ID, my phone is already unlocked by the time I get round to this. And there's also the side benefit of my notifications being hidden from view when someone else wants to peek at my phone, yet they appear when I glance at it.

What you're left with is a phone that is as easy to access as one without a passcode. No longer do you have to go through security checks because it is all done automatically. It's all pretty seamless when it works.

It's in line with Apple's overarching goal of making technology more personal for the end user. That pretty much sums up their modus operandi right there - not necessarily to have their products have the most features, but to remove barriers that stand between technology and the end user.
 

BoycottCookApple

Suspended
Nov 27, 2019
32
10
A good and honest UX designer wouldn't use a notch for FaceID and it just looks imbecile. On the other hand, in-display-TouchID(Ultrasonic) for iPhone 12 is a greater solution as biometric authentication and provide you a better user experience.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
A good and honest UX designer wouldn't use a notch for FaceID and it just looks imbecile. On the other hand, in-display-TouchID(Ultrasonic) for iPhone 12 is a greater solution as biometric authentication and provide you a better user experience.
The notch is so hated, yet it is being copied by everybody else in the industry.

In-display-touchID is not a greater solution. We already see the potential security risks from the Galaxy S10/Note 10 ultrasonic fingerprint reader. And it doesn’t offer anything better than regular touchID. It will still have the same plus/minus as regular TouchID.
 
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PugMaster

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2019
220
195
But you do realize that basically everybody else uses tiny teardrop or punchhole notches, not a freaking huge black monster like apple does? They have this huge thing for 3 years now.
 

LovingTeddy

Suspended
Oct 12, 2015
1,848
2,153
Canada
If Apple is using it, the technology will be implemented well and work far better than the garbage released thus far.

I prefer FaceID.

FaceID is the garbage. I can’t count times I have to enter passwords when FaceID fails.

TouchID is way better, I have under screen fingerprint censor on my Android, Huawei P30 Pro and it works great. Far better than the junk FaceID
 

BoycottCookApple

Suspended
Nov 27, 2019
32
10
The notch is so hated, yet it is being copied by everybody else in the industry.

In-display-touchID is not a greater solution. We already see the potential security risks from the Galaxy S10/Note 10 ultrasonic fingerprint reader. And it doesn’t offer anything better than regular touchID. It will still have the same plus/minus as regular TouchID.

No biometric authentication is 100% perfect over time and Apple implementation of in-display-TouchID will be a lot more secure than Samsung and is way better than the 1st&2nd generations of touchID.
 

LoganT

macrumors 68020
Jan 9, 2007
2,382
134
Unlocks phone at any angle, not affected by light conditions. Don't have to adjust car mount to be in the perfect angle. Having both would be great.

I don’t think FaceID is affected by lighting conditions because it takes an infrared 3D scan of your face.
 
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Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
Least Apple's not giving in so easily. Judgeing by they couldn't get under the display right first time, i'd be impressed even by 2021 release
 

TheSapient

macrumors regular
May 26, 2017
237
257
...It's in line with Apple's overarching goal of making technology more personal for the end user. That pretty much sums up their modus operandi right there - not necessarily to have their products have the most features, but to remove barriers that stand between technology and the end user.

This is what everybody does. This is what everybody is asking for. What that means is different for different people, which is why we have people here expressing a variety of opinions on what they want to see moving forward.

When I say I want multiple options for biometric authentication, it isn't because I want "the most features". It is so my phone operates as seamlessly as possible with the way *I* want to use it. When I'm wearing gloves, I want my phone to be looking at my face. When I want to use my phone without picking it up, I want it to know it is me when I tap it. I want the option to set my phone to go straight to my home screen without swiping. Features give me options that I can use to make my interaction with my tech easier.

It is all well and good to understand an corporations philosophies, but I'm interested in finding products that serve my needs, not molding my desires to that corporation's goals.
 

PugMaster

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2019
220
195
You people do realize that the security issue on the scanner was due to using a textured screen protector, right? A lot of fps could have been fooled by this. I guess they now implemented a detection method for repeating patterns, but technically speaking, this method could have „worked“ for a lot of phones.
 

Darth Tulhu

macrumors 68020
Apr 10, 2019
2,191
3,660
I'm all in for anything that leads to the removal of that hideous, gigantic notch.

That said, it'd be nice if Apple were to achieve all three: no notch, Face ID, AND under-screen Touch ID.
 
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pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
No biometric authentication is 100% perfect over time and Apple implementation of in-display-TouchID will be a lot more secure than Samsung and is way better than the 1st&2nd generations of touchID.
The thing is, Apple already did a more secure biometric authentication. It's called FaceID.
 
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m0sher

macrumors 6502a
Mar 4, 2018
815
783
Don’t see upgrading my 11 Pro Max until 2021.

looking forward to the new display
 

BoycottCookApple

Suspended
Nov 27, 2019
32
10
The thing is, Apple already did a more secure biometric authentication. It's called FaceID.

Apple uses the intrusive notch for FaceID and that's why In-Display-TouchID will be more favorable method as a highly secure biometric authentication without compromising the aesthetic of screen design.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
Apple uses the intrusive notch for FaceID and that's why In-Display-TouchID will be more favorable

...Which has nothing to do with what @pika2000 said. Face ID is the most _secure_ biometric form of security on a smart phone today, you’re talking about a design aesthetic with the notch, that’ not mutually exclusive to Apples future.
 
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roberry82

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2009
33
4
Maybe my first post on here, but there’s SO much confusion and anxiety over something that’s literally a game changer: FaceID and how it works vs. how you’re using it. I own an iPhone X and an iPad Pro.

1: Setting up your default Face ID “appearance” holding your device in the most natural, most used position. If you’re setting up Face ID with your face a foot from the screen or your arms out-stretched, THIS IS HOW ALL FUTURE AUTHENTICATIONS WILL BE PROCESSED. With that in mind, hold your device the way you’d normally use it when setting up your default Face ID appearance. For me, that’s sitting, elbows bent and neck slightly bet down, much like I’d hold a book when reading. Adapt your Face ID appearance to how you actually hold and use your device.
2: Unlocking your device: Face ID works best when item #1 is adhered to. The number of friends and family members I’ve known who’ve had their issues with Face ID solved by redoing their Face ID appearance is staggering. Remember, Face ID is meant to make unlocking your phone seamless. If you’re picking your phone up, chances are you’d want it unlocked. Even if you don’t, and you’re merely checking notifications, you can still do so. But once you’re ready to tap a notification, your device is already unlocked and you’re being taken to the app that’s notified you. If you’re tapping your device while it’s on a flat surface, say to check the time, your device does not need to be unlocked. Face ID is a moot point in this instance. In either instance, having “raise to wake” turned on and “Attention to Unlock” turned off greatly improve success rate.
3: Apple Pay authentication: SETUP A SECOND FACE ID APPEARANCE. I have a second appearance setup where I’ve purposefully held my iPhone X at a low, awkward angle. This makes using my device at a POS terminal a breeze. Sure, not all terminals are at the same height or angle, but having a second Face ID appearance helps.
4: Random musings: If your phone is in your hand, chances are you want to interact with it somehow. Face ID blurs the lines between “press to unlock”, “swipe to unlock”, “let me take my glove off” and the like. Furthermore, I own a dozen pair of eyeglasses and sunglasses, and out of all of them, only one gives me any issue with unlocking and they’re the darkest shades I own. Face ID indoors, outdoors, daytime or nighttime, my success rate is near perfect. Direct sunlight on the device while wearing my darkest shades is literally the only time I have issues, and that combination is few and far between. I wear different hats, scarves and the like and have never had an issue.

I hate to bring up the back and forth from the iPhone 4, but when it comes to Face ID, quite possibly you’re using it wrong. The tech is SO advanced and has so much more flexibility than most people even understand. But you’ve got to at least attempt to set it up properly.

Reset your Face ID appearance as outlined above and add an additional appearance if you use Apple Pay. So many of these “issues” will disappear.
 

BoycottCookApple

Suspended
Nov 27, 2019
32
10
...Which has nothing to do with what @pika2000 said. Face ID is the most _secure_ biometric form of security on a smart phone today, you’re talking about a design aesthetic with the notch, that’ not mutually exclusive to Apples future.

Don't try to think or guarantee that faceID is not vulnerable to any exploit and don't count out a new iteration of In-Display-TouchID can be as secure as using a password.
 

3rdiguy

macrumors 65816
Sep 17, 2012
1,361
611
If they're just now meeting then the timeline has to be 2021 or later at least. Next year's model should just about be ready to be Mass produced. Logistics Logistics Logistics
 
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smulji

macrumors 68030
Feb 21, 2011
2,855
2,726
I think people misinterpret FaceID. The idea isn't to spend time analyzing how it works or whether it's slower than TouchID or not. The idea is that it blurs the perception of needing authentication at all to unlock your phone.

I think what Apple was going for was using FaceID to take care of all the security stuff behind the scenes so you don't have too. It removes having to think about authenticating to access something because faceID has already detected that it is you.

I can also cite a few scenarios where Face ID is more convenient than Touch ID. For example, I can autofill passwords in the browser or unlock apps protected with Face ID without needing to raise a finger to authenticate, since Face ID does this automatically in the background for me. If I take a photo using the camera app from the lock screen and then want to share it with a friend, I still need to unlock with Touch ID, but with Face ID, my phone is already unlocked by the time I get round to this. And there's also the side benefit of my notifications being hidden from view when someone else wants to peek at my phone, yet they appear when I glance at it.

What you're left with is a phone that is as easy to access as one without a passcode. No longer do you have to go through security checks because it is all done automatically. It's all pretty seamless when it works.

It's in line with Apple's overarching goal of making technology more personal for the end user. That pretty much sums up their modus operandi right there - not necessarily to have their products have the most features, but to remove barriers that stand between technology and the end user.
Well said.
[automerge]1575436753[/automerge]
If they're just now meeting then the timeline has to be 2021 or later at least. Next year's model should just about be ready to be Mass produced. Logistics Logistics Logistics
Design of iPhone 2020 models are set by now. Between now & July Apple begins testing. And starting July, mass manufacturing begins.
 

Nones

macrumors newbie
Dec 3, 2019
5
0
I love FaceID, but also was happy to grab my phone and unlock it while just holding it. Eventually a screen with be able to do both.
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
Don't try to think or guarantee that faceID is not vulnerable to any exploit and don't count out a new iteration of In-Display-TouchID can be as secure as using a password.

Given the fact yes we've all see those 3D images (guys who thinks their scientists in home full of 'special equipment' which is not available on the market by all people), its secure enough..

I don't care if these things are not 100% secure,, its only a dream to think you and me can get access to such equipment to do fake...

(i think my example was Touch ID replication, not FaceID, but i would think they'd be something for that too)

Just not for the general pubic...
 

iJustines

macrumors regular
Dec 1, 2019
234
70
I think it's not exaggerated to point out faceID is so bad that it requires a notch screen design and the employee who works on it should be fired for using a disgraceful method of implementation.
 

Strokee

Suspended
May 13, 2018
124
187
This isn’t happening until 2021 at the soonest. Do people honestly think, in 1 year, Apple is going to do all of this for the iPhone?:

5G support
Qualcomm modems
New screen sizes
Additional (4th) model
New OLED screens (Y-Octa)
New metal Frame design
Smaller notch
ToF sensor
120 Hz pro motion displays
USB-C
In screen fingerprint sensor

Do you really think Apple’s doing all of this in 1 year? Even if technically doable, they’re not cramming all of these changes in at once. I mean, if for no other reason it would be in their best interest to space out some of these changes to 2021.

God, imagine the cost of the Pro Max 6.7” with all of these upgrades: base price $1,500.00?
 
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