Apple Aims to Cut Down on Spyware With Lawsuit Against NSO Group

[quatermass]

Imagine seeing what she saw and still being a supremacist after all of it. I know soldiers who have served in the Israeli army, who saw how repulsive it was, and who still, somehow, support Israel

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It is a dreadful thing to see the dead city. Next to the port I found children, women, the old, waiting for a way to leave. I entered the houses, there were houses where the coffee and pita bread were left on the table, and I could not avoid [thinking] that this, indeed, had been the picture in many Jewish towns [i.e., in Europe, during World War II]

Thanks for sharing that. Makes you think, are we really all that different? Why do we keep doing doing the same things to each other? Why do we never learn, but keep repeating the same mistakes?
Had an uncle, Canadian army, one of the first to liberate a concentration camp. Only mentioned it once, very briefly. He just went silent and you could see him recalling what he saw. Very disturbing.

Doesn't mean that I can understand Golda Meir though. Quite the opposite.

 

[avz]

NSO is NOT "state sponsored". Any misuse of their product is on their customers.

Israeli foreign minister distances government from blacklisted NSO Group

Israel's Foreign Minister Yair Lapid on Saturday distanced the government from the NSO Group, a firm blacklisted this week by the United States over alleged misuse of its phone hacking spyware.

www.reuters.com

"NSO is a private company, it is not a governmental project and therefore even if it is designated, it has nothing to do with the policies of the Israeli government," Lapid told a news conference in Jerusalem. "I don't think there is another country in the world which has such strict rules according to cyber warfare and that is imposing those rules more than Israel and we will continue to do so."

East India Company used to be a private company as well and of course had nothing to do with the British Empire. Everything is possible when you play your cards right, eh?

 

[SurferPup]

Love ? Apple - protecting my privacy.

 

[chromite]

Thanks for sharing that. Makes you think, are we really all that different? Why do we keep doing doing the same things to each other? Why do we never learn, but keep repeating the same mistakes?
Had an uncle, Canadian army, one of the first to liberate a concentration camp. Only mentioned it once, very briefly. He just went silent and you could see him recalling what he saw. Very disturbing.

Doesn't mean that I can understand Golda Meir though. Quite the opposite.

Sorry about your uncle, that's terrible

From a socialist perspective I think capitalism is the major factor and by extension everything that comes with it (imperialism, oppression, colonization, etc). Always gotta have those profits. Kind of ironic this subject is coming up on a website devoted to one of the wealthiest corporations in the world

 

[AdonisSMU]

That is 100% false information. However I will not go into the politics of the situation as certain folk here do not take too kindly when I do this

**********

Apple is saying - the only spyware on Apple devices that will be allowed is Apple made spyware.
CSAM existing does not bode well for Apple. The instant it is forced into every Apple device, the lawsuits against Apple will come and Apple will have a harder time fighting other spyware developers because it (will have) put it's own developed spyware out there.

I disagree. I do agree that Israel has become what they claim to hate. ??‍♂️ Sorry facts are facts.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Sorry about your uncle, that's terrible

From a socialist perspective I think capitalism is the major factor and by extension everything that comes with it (imperialism, oppression, colonization, etc). Always gotta have those profits. Kind of ironic this subject is coming up on a website devoted to one of the wealthiest corporations in the world

Tbqh the same things happened under socialist regimes as well. Socialists love to deny the facts and thats why I always have to look at them with a side eye. Most of the stuff socialists criticized capitalism for has happened and to a greater degree under socialism. ?

no system is going to be right all the time. we can craft something that has the best parts of socialism and capitalism. People with a socialism or capitalism hard on are not critical thinkers and just grasping at straws and going from one extreme to the next Rather than critically think about what is actually the right blend of capitalism and socialism that benefits the most people.

 

[chromite]

Tbqh the same things happened under socialist regimes as well. Socialists love to deny the facts and thats why I always have to look at them with a side eye. Most of the stuff socialists criticized capitalism for has happened and to a greater degree under socialism. ?

no system is going to be right all the time. we can craft something that has the best parts of socialism and capitalism. People with a socialism or capitalism hard on are not critical thinkers and just grasping at straws and going from one extreme to the next Rather than critically think about what is actually the right blend of capitalism and socialism that benefits the most people.

I agree 100% (at this moment in history) because it’s been proven over and over that socialist countries get dominated by global capital and can’t survive; except in the rare cases like China and North Korea

China just surpassed the US in wealth because they’re playing the long con of using the west for their own benefit. The fact that a certified communist country is now more wealthy than the most capitalist country is something to ponder

 

[chromite]

Can’t figure out how to delete a comment on mobile ahhhhh

 

[the8thark]

I disagree. I do agree that Israel has become what they claim to hate. ??‍♂️ Sorry facts are facts.

Thank you for your reply. You are free to have your opinion.

The facts show Israel as a nation that has only ever defended itself against persecution for decades with no outward (non defensive) aggression.

As I said above I am sticking to the facts and will let everyone else debate the politics and the subjective opinions they each individually have.

 

[chromite]

Thank you for your reply. You are free to have your opinion.

The facts show Israel as a nation that has only ever defended itself against persecution for decades with no outward (non defensive) aggression.

As I said above I am sticking to the facts and will let everyone else debate the politics and the subjective opinions they each individually have.

Your facts are straight up wrong. This documentary shows Israeli soldiers *laughing* while literally blowing the limbs off Palestinians:

 

[Wildkraut]

Can you guarantee us users that if apple were to loosen the purse strings, every known exploit would suddenly disappear? (I hear crickets) But good try at faux outrage.

Who am I to guarantee anything regarding Apple’s coding incompetence, that even needs to be supported by lawyers. Btw, just another proof that the AppStore adds zero security, and exits mainly for anticompetitive gate keeping.

Searching and selling Exploits is pure business. These Security Researchers aren’t all White-Hats or Black-Hats, there are also hmm - let’s call them Gray-Hats, they simply go for the next good money opportunity. If no good guy shows up, it’s sold further to the next best uncomplicated bidder and lands directly in the bad guy hands. Apples bug-bounty program simply sucks, it’s too complicated, limited and does not motivate to sell exploits directly back to Apple, that’s it.

 

[the8thark]

Your facts are straight up wrong.

Not so.

Many people have, in this case a muslim in the Israeli Army talking about how overall the Israeli Army is only fighting to defend itself and promote peace.

An Arab Muslim in the Israeli Army | PragerU

Why would an Arab Muslim serve in the Israeli military? Because he, like many Israeli Arabs, proudly defend the nation that has given them freedom and…

www.prageru.com

In saying that, no Army has a 100% perfect track record. Every single one has made mistakes.
Overall the Israeli Army exists with a main objective of defending itself from foreign powers who wish to remove the country from the map, as in totally destroy it.

Also this video is a very good one to watch.

Do You Think Israel Should Cease to Exist? | PragerU

If you seek to destroy the one and only Jewish state, you don’t have to hate every Jew to be an antisemite. It’s one thing to criticize Israel. It’s another…

www.prageru.com

People are free to hate Dennis Prager as much at they want. However his videos are very good at summarising complex subjects into short factual videos.

Conclusion

Criticism of anything, even Israel is fine. All nations have their good points and flaws and bringing up both in conversation is fine.
Denying Israel's right to exist as a free and independent nation is not fine on he other hand, which is no different to denying any other nation on earth the right to exist as a free and independent nation.

That is slightly off topic, but I kept things 100% factual.

*******

The main point here is Apple is rather hypocritical by suing others for spyware when it has created it's own spyware.

 

[Malus120]

Read the internationally accepted definition of antisemitism.

Comments like this are most certainly antisemitic and have nothing to do with the issue of spyware:

Apple Aims to Cut Down on Spyware With Lawsuit Against NSO Group

Israel is a horrible country that has blood on its hands, forcing Palestinians out of their lands and homes. Call me an antisemite all you want, their government sucks and Israelis have become the fascists they profess to hate.

forums.macrumors.com

I really don't know why you responded to what I said about YOUR response to MY post with a comment that is clearly more inflammatory...
That said, I went ahead and checked out the State Department article you linked to because, come to think of it, I'd never read what they have to say on the matter.
I think the most relevant part to OUR exchange about what I said is

"...criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."

I would say the exact same thing if any other NATO or non NATO major ally (so any country from the UK, France, Japan, South Korea and any and all of our allies in between) was similarly involved in developing and selling advanced exploits that are actively used by repressive regimes and damage the interests of American companies and individuals (not to mention those of people, particularly dissidents, around the world, including Israelis.)

Now, is NSO part of the Israeli government? No, but pretending their government couldn't put a stop to this is putting one's head in the sand.

 

[chromite]

Not so.

Many people have, in this case a muslim in the Israeli Army talking about how overall the Israeli Army is only fighting to defend itself and promote peace.

An Arab Muslim in the Israeli Army | PragerU

Why would an Arab Muslim serve in the Israeli military? Because he, like many Israeli Arabs, proudly defend the nation that has given them freedom and…

www.prageru.com

In saying that, no Army has a 100% perfect track record. Every single one has made mistakes.
Overall the Israeli Army exists with a main objective of defending itself from foreign powers who wish to remove the country from the map, as in totally destroy it.

Also this video is a very good one to watch.

Do You Think Israel Should Cease to Exist? | PragerU

If you seek to destroy the one and only Jewish state, you don’t have to hate every Jew to be an antisemite. It’s one thing to criticize Israel. It’s another…

www.prageru.com

People are free to hate Dennis Prager as much at they want. However his videos are very good at summarising complex subjects into short factual videos.

Conclusion

Criticism of anything, even Israel is fine. All nations have their good points and flaws and bringing up both in conversation is fine.
Denying Israel's right to exist as a free and independent nation is not fine on he other hand, which is no different to denying any other nation on earth the right to exist as a free and independent nation.

That is slightly off topic, but I kept things 100% factual.

*******

The main point here is Apple is rather hypocritical by suing others for spyware when it has created it's own spyware.

The fact that PragerU (laughable, not academic at all) is your main source is enough. Cringe:

 

[Unsupported]

Now, is NSO part of the Israeli government? No, but pretending their government couldn't put a stop to this is putting one's head in the sand.

Israel begins investigation into NSO Group spyware abuse

“We want them to check everything,” says the CEO of a cybersecurity company implicated in campaigns against politicians, activists, and other notable figures.

www.technologyreview.com

 

[amartinez1660]

Good luck suing the ones who set the rules, Apple!

Why not simply fix the exploits and setup a decent bug-bounty program to attract security researchers and motivate them to submit the exploits!

Apple is a 2 trillion company which is too stingy to payout for bugs and exploits.
In other words they care for ?, all just a show to make people think they care for privacy.

I’m on the side that believes that it has to be both… you could totally just add more security to a car and fix any burglary entry points with locks, locks on top locks, surveillance camera systems (like Tesla’s), metal meshed windows so they can’t be broken and ever increase the cost of the car compared to the original stripped down version until yourself can’t get inside to drive it anymore.
But at some point the thieves and burglars will have to be dealt with.

 

[Unsupported]

You do realise he was not writing about Judaism or Jewishness in any way? He's actually talking about physics and cosmology - you knew that, right?

Of course I knew that. But truth is truth no matter what one is talking about.

 

[Unsupported]

Well, it looks like friend Chromite can do that, as you obviously don't know. Not surprising. Come across that before.

So you too are going to tell this Jew what Judaism is? ?

Listen to the late Chief Rabbi of the UK.

 

[Unsupported]

"Israel is not an idea. It’s not a political statement. It’s country where millions of people, with their own opinions and beliefs, actually live. We shouldn’t have to remind the world we are human beings. But we do. Treat us as such."

- Hen Mazzig

 

[Malus120]

Israel begins investigation into NSO Group spyware abuse

“We want them to check everything,” says the CEO of a cybersecurity company implicated in campaigns against politicians, activists, and other notable figures.

www.technologyreview.com

Thanks for the link. On the one hand, the fact that it's gotten enough attention that the Israeli government is "looking into it" is good, and I'd like to think this signals intent for a change in direction...

That said, toward the end the article does note that "NSO Group is under the direct regulation of Israel’s Ministry of Defense, which approves each sale. Critics say the export licensing process is broken because it results in sales to authoritarian regimes that have used the hacking tools to commit abuses."

So... It's also somewhat disingenuous to suggest they didn't know what was happening in the first place...

In the end, assuming this is a serious investigation, with real consequences for however this got onto people's devices who, arguably, it shouldn't have been on, the real question becomes will whoever was in charge of approving these sales in the Israeli MoD and or government be held accountable, and does the political will / desire actually exist to, at the very least, get NSO to be more discerning in terms of clientele if not radically change it's approach to security research.

 

[Unsupported]

So... It's also somewhat disingenuous to suggest they didn't know what was happening in the first place...

The government knew of and approved sales to a certain country. That does not mean that the government, or NSO, neccesarily knew what that country was doing with the software.

When they do know... "NSO recently said the company has cut off five customers for abuse."

 

[Unsupported]

Unfortuately, it's not as black-and-white as some would like to make out, but that's low resolution thinking that won't get you anywhere.

Actually it is pretty much black and white. Palestinians, and their supporters, want to murder all Jews, not only Israelis, and Jews refuse to be murdered. Simple.

Hamas Covenant [Full Text]

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[VulchR]

Getting away from the debate about Israel, it is good that Apple are fighting spyware. Now if only they could just stop being hypocritical and commit to abandoning this stupid CSAM-scanning idea... And you can better believe that NSO will raise the CSAM-scanning proposal to weaken Apple's case.

EDIT: Re: Israel & Palestinians: two bald men fighting over a comb.

 

[Unsupported]

This is the last I will say on this.

... It proves the situtaion is far out of control, and is nearing genocide.

"Anti-Zionists cannot convince rational people that Israel is evil by telling the truth. So they tell dramatic lies of genocide, apartheid, colonization, slaughter of children, stealing land."

The Genocide Lie: Why Do Israel’s Critics Keep Repeating It? - Algemeiner.com

JNS.org - Last May, while Israel defended itself against 4,500 unprovoked Hamas missile attacks from Gaza, actor Mark Ruffalo accused Israel of genocide. Several weeks later, Ruffalo wisely retracted his tweet, saying the accusation was “not accurate, it’s inflammatory, disrespectful & is being...

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[Unsupported]

I've had enough of this. It never ceases to amaze me, although it shouldn't, that any mention of Israel brings out the hate in people.

"I have never swindled a man. At most I kept quiet and let him swindle himself. This does no harm, as a fool cannot be protected from his folly. If you attempt to do so, you will not only arouse his animosity but also you will be attempting to deprive him of whatever benefit he is capable of deriving from experience. Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

- Robert Heinlein

Never Attempt To Teach a Pig To Sing; It Wastes Your Time and Annoys the Pig – Quote Investigator®

quoteinvestigator.com