The same goes for vaccinated people then. If you get myocardial problems, or any other of the rare side effects, you should not get any treatment. Specially not for clot related diseases, anybody knows this can happen with the new experimental medications.
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Apple Asks All U.S. Employees to Share Vaccination Status, Still No Mandate
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This is just disingenuous discussion.
There seems to be evidence that show that unvaccinated people fare worse than vaccinated people, if they get covid. (Not to mention delta seems to be pushing, iirc, the age down) If you decide to willfully forego the vaccine and get hospitalized, why is it unfair if you pay for your hospitalization.
Wrong. Vaccinated people are doing the right thing and following the rules. Anti-vaxxers are not. Those that choose to not vaccinate will be quickly left behind when various employers and services require it.
Nice to see some of them are on vacation.
By creating variants?
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you are the one one that has been misled unfortunately
so much so that you are willing to believe anything made up by a radical fringe as opposed to global scientific and public health consensus to the point that they have you acting against your own interest
it’s just like how they got so many poor and working class americans to vote for the republican party against their own interests
and convinced so many people to deny climate change against their own interests
and convinced so many people to believe in all that q conspiracy nonsense
and so on and so forth
it’s all part of the same package
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I, for one, have had it with so called "doctors" and "scientists" who specialize in infectious diseases telling me what to do. Karen did her own research on FB so I'm taking horse dewormers instead.
That's how they voted in 2016, what's the worst that can happen?
The false promise of herd immunity for COVID-19
Why proposals to largely let the virus run its course — embraced by Donald Trump’s administration and others — could bring “untold death and suffering”.
Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible
Even with vaccination efforts in full force, the theoretical threshold for vanquishing COVID-19 looks to be out of reach.
Here's a link to the full article:
Estimated US Infection- and Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence Based on Blood Donations, July 2020-May 2021
This study estimates trends in SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence related to infection and vaccination in the US population.
There are a few notes attached to the numbers, particularly regarding waning antibodies and variants. It's worth reading the "Discussion" and "Limitations" section of that article for context.
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Here's a link to the full article:
Estimated US Infection- and Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence Based on Blood Donations, July 2020-May 2021
This study estimates trends in SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence related to infection and vaccination in the US population.jamanetwork.com
There are a few notes attached to the numbers, particularly regarding waning antibodies and variants. It's worth reading the "Discussion" and "Limitations" section of that article for context.
thanks for posting this. this is a perfect example of cherry picking a piece of information from an article to try to allude to a claim that the article itself does not make
also right from the abstract:
“Despite weighting to adjust for demographic differences, these findings from a national sample of blood donors may not be representative of the entire US population”
Like every single study… including for vaccine approval. Y’all keep living in fear.
That's the goal, so get the vaccine and don't become a statistic. It's all fun and games until your favorite anti-vaxxer dies.
Anti-Vax Radio Hosts Keep Dying From COVID
Will the passing of on-air opponents of pandemic mitigation efforts have any effect on their audiences?
Why would you assume I’m unvaccinated?That's the goal, so get the vaccine and don't become a statistic. It's all fun and games until your favorite anti-vaxxer dies.
Anti-Vax Radio Hosts Keep Dying From COVID
Will the passing of on-air opponents of pandemic mitigation efforts have any effect on their audiences?www.vanityfair.com
And I don’t listen to talk radio.. or watch the news.. or many assumptions being made apparently.
You mean besides the post that quoted me with the article on radio hosts dying?
I have lived in FL and CA during COVID. From the very beginning I remember asking a friend who is the CEO of a pharmaceutical company (and holds a PhD in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.. not just a 'CEO') what we could do to limit or reduce the people who get COVID.. his response was a virus will get it's numbers. Before someone takes that literally.. we all know there are things to mitigate/manage.. but at the end of the day a virus will do what viruses do.
I know close to 100 people who have had COVID. I am pretty sure my wife and I had it in FL back in Feb 2020. My brother and sister just got over it in GA. My boss just got over it in FL. Monoclonal antibodies helped my brother. Both my brother and sister are high risk.. I had an unpopular conversation with both of them because I love them. My boss.. well, good idea or not, she is old school and just fought through it. I kept in touch with her everyday to make sure she was tracking her O2/vitals. She is fine now. My neighbor just got over a breakthrough case. A guy at my wife's company just got over a breakthrough case. When we were in FL, almost an entire 12U baseball team got COVID plus parents and some siblings.. (yeah.. idiots.. and we pulled our kids from All Star teams immediately because they friggin' hid it. Total BS idiocy. One of my best friends is a pediatric ENT. I asked him his thoughts on wearing a mask all-day and the most positive he could be was that it makes others feel better
Do I attend large events? Nope but we recently attended a super-spreader event aka the Rams/Raiders preseason game in LA.. mask were 'required' but 80% there were not wearing them and it wasn't enforced. It was very weird to be 'back' in an environment like that for sure. I know, through friends, people who have had very bad outcomes from COVID and from the Vax. Strokes... from both. I am not anti-vax but I am anti-telling others how to live and what they can do with their bodies.
I don't care what 'study' someone provides.. we are seeing vaccinated and unvaccinated get COVID. Yes, vaccinated are likely to have an 'easier' time with it. WTS, my boss wasn't vaccinated and she said it was like the flu. Everyone is different. In general, people are not going to live in a world with perpetual vaccines. I know some out there want that.. because .. just one more shot will get us 'back to normal'.. but I don't believe that. At all. We are to the point that we are living with COVID. It sucks because for some it can be dangerous. For some, well.. it's the flu. If someone wants that 8th booster.. go for it.. but my doctor at UCLA Medical told me directly that he doesn't see a need for boosters in the foreseeable future for me. Will my boys, both under 12, get the Vax.. even if it is approved? No, they won't because there IS a risk element and that risk element versus their risk from COVID isn't worth it. I live in a liberal area (LA) for the most part and I have seen parents that are literally scared of their kids.. it's sad. Those kids are going to need therapy after being treated like a walking virus for a year+.
The advice I got from my ENT friend early on was wash your hands, don't touch your face, and as best possible stay away from being super close to people. If you feel bad, stay TF home. I STILL have people I have to *politely* tell to back TF up. I don't dig personal space invaders. I have been following this advice since March 2020. I have also made a point, every day, to get out and get a run/walk/bike ride with some natural Vitamin D and fresh air.
.. but this segregation and hate.. it isn't the way to go. Celebrating the death of someone, whether you agree or disagree with them on anything.. is vile.
I know close to 100 people who have had COVID. I am pretty sure my wife and I had it in FL back in Feb 2020. My brother and sister just got over it in GA. My boss just got over it in FL. Monoclonal antibodies helped my brother. Both my brother and sister are high risk.. I had an unpopular conversation with both of them because I love them. My boss.. well, good idea or not, she is old school and just fought through it. I kept in touch with her everyday to make sure she was tracking her O2/vitals. She is fine now. My neighbor just got over a breakthrough case. A guy at my wife's company just got over a breakthrough case. When we were in FL, almost an entire 12U baseball team got COVID plus parents and some siblings.. (yeah.. idiots.. and we pulled our kids from All Star teams immediately because they friggin' hid it. Total BS idiocy. One of my best friends is a pediatric ENT. I asked him his thoughts on wearing a mask all-day and the most positive he could be was that it makes others feel better
Do I attend large events? Nope but we recently attended a super-spreader event aka the Rams/Raiders preseason game in LA.. mask were 'required' but 80% there were not wearing them and it wasn't enforced. It was very weird to be 'back' in an environment like that for sure. I know, through friends, people who have had very bad outcomes from COVID and from the Vax. Strokes... from both. I am not anti-vax but I am anti-telling others how to live and what they can do with their bodies.
I don't care what 'study' someone provides.. we are seeing vaccinated and unvaccinated get COVID. Yes, vaccinated are likely to have an 'easier' time with it. WTS, my boss wasn't vaccinated and she said it was like the flu. Everyone is different. In general, people are not going to live in a world with perpetual vaccines. I know some out there want that.. because .. just one more shot will get us 'back to normal'.. but I don't believe that. At all. We are to the point that we are living with COVID. It sucks because for some it can be dangerous. For some, well.. it's the flu. If someone wants that 8th booster.. go for it.. but my doctor at UCLA Medical told me directly that he doesn't see a need for boosters in the foreseeable future for me. Will my boys, both under 12, get the Vax.. even if it is approved? No, they won't because there IS a risk element and that risk element versus their risk from COVID isn't worth it. I live in a liberal area (LA) for the most part and I have seen parents that are literally scared of their kids.. it's sad. Those kids are going to need therapy after being treated like a walking virus for a year+.
The advice I got from my ENT friend early on was wash your hands, don't touch your face, and as best possible stay away from being super close to people. If you feel bad, stay TF home. I STILL have people I have to *politely* tell to back TF up. I don't dig personal space invaders. I have been following this advice since March 2020. I have also made a point, every day, to get out and get a run/walk/bike ride with some natural Vitamin D and fresh air.
.. but this segregation and hate.. it isn't the way to go. Celebrating the death of someone, whether you agree or disagree with them on anything.. is vile.
I will add.. in case people are not familiar.. in regards to VAERS. I worked at a pharmaceutical and was trained annually on how to take in and report/file Adverse Event reports/claims. Note that ANY claim made by a person taking a med/vax has to be logged and reported, even if it doesn't actually come from the med/vax. There is some bad stuff in VAERS right now. I have reviewed some of the cases I have seen posted. Some bad stuff that I believe is real. WTS, there is also BS in VAERS.. I think I saw were someone got herpes as an AE to the vax. Be careful with unvalidated data.
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I had the misfortune of reading earlier pages of this thread.
The simple science is the vaccine drastically reduces ones chance of getting COVID, which then reduces the chance of that person spreading it. For a person to spread COVID, they need to first get COVID, and the vaccines reduce this chance. The vaccine also is effective at significantly decreasing the severity of cases even when breakout cases do occur.
No the vaccine isn't 100 percent effective. However I don't think there is a single vaccine or medical treatment that is, so with that logic, no one should seek any medical treatment as none of it is 100 percent effective. It's like turning down a modern safe car with Airbags + autonomous saftey features because it's not 100 percent guaranteed to save your life in a crash, and instead choosing a 1960s car with no saftey features whatsoever, and a much higher risk of death.
The reason vaccinated people are concerned about people who aren't vaccinated is that non vaccinated people still pose a heightened risk to their health. Breakthrough cases can occur in vaccinated people. If you have two people in a room, both vaccinated, they have a chance of passing COVID to each other, but the chance of this occurring is reduced science they're both less likely to get COVID. If the scenario changes, and one is vaccinated and one is not, then the chances of the unvaccinated person having COVID are much higher than the previous scenario. The heightened chance of the first person having COVID, means a much heightened chance for the 2nd vaccinated person to then catch COVID in a breakout case. This heightened chance is the same regardless of what the statistics say on how contagious vaccinated vs unvaccinated people are.
That leads us to the even higher chance of transmission between two unvaccinated people. Both people in this scenario are more likely to contract COVID when exposed to it, and thus are more likely to have COVID, thus more likely to spread it to the unvaccinated person, and the unvaccinated person is more likely to then contract it. Both are on top of this far more likely to have a severe case of COVID.
So with that established, that brings us to the fact that a small minority of people have real medical reasons why they can't be vaccinated. These people rely on others getting vaccinated to reduce the chances they'll be exposed to covid and therefore reduce the chances of them contracting COVID. The more unvaccinated people there are, the higher the chance that these people will get COVID, which is unfair on them given many would like the extra protection vaccination offers but are simply unable to take it up.
COVID is serious. Yes while lots of people make full recoveries, there are significant numbers who go on to suffer from 'Long Covid'. Plenty of people suffer from serious cases of COVID which can cause all sorts of serious medical issues with the body. Plenty of otherwise healthy people have become very sick with COVID. Those who say that "oh well COVID only effects those with preexisting conditions" ignore the fact that around 20 percent of adults (18-64)in the US have a preexisting condition which puts them at a higher risk of a serious case of COVD. That's 1 in 5! Then there are all the 65+ who are also at higher risk - the total is nearly 4/10 Americans are at higher risk. - 2 in 5. These are huge numbers of people, not a small subsection of people.
Then theres also the problem of hospitals and ICU departments being stretched beyond breaking point. Medical staff are risking their own wellbeing to treat patients with COVID, who likely wouldn't be in hospital if they'd been vaccinated. This takes away from the resources hospitals have to deal with other patients in critical condition and makes it riskier to operate and treat patients whose health depends on being treated. My cousins are nurses, one works in emergency and it frustrates me greatly that her chances of getting COVID are so much higher because of people who are medically able but refuse vaccination.
If a person's vaccination status had no bearing on other people's wellbeing, there would be a lot less care from others on who was vaccinated or not, but the fact remains that people's choices with regards to vaccination impact others.
The simple science is the vaccine drastically reduces ones chance of getting COVID, which then reduces the chance of that person spreading it. For a person to spread COVID, they need to first get COVID, and the vaccines reduce this chance. The vaccine also is effective at significantly decreasing the severity of cases even when breakout cases do occur.
No the vaccine isn't 100 percent effective. However I don't think there is a single vaccine or medical treatment that is, so with that logic, no one should seek any medical treatment as none of it is 100 percent effective. It's like turning down a modern safe car with Airbags + autonomous saftey features because it's not 100 percent guaranteed to save your life in a crash, and instead choosing a 1960s car with no saftey features whatsoever, and a much higher risk of death.
The reason vaccinated people are concerned about people who aren't vaccinated is that non vaccinated people still pose a heightened risk to their health. Breakthrough cases can occur in vaccinated people. If you have two people in a room, both vaccinated, they have a chance of passing COVID to each other, but the chance of this occurring is reduced science they're both less likely to get COVID. If the scenario changes, and one is vaccinated and one is not, then the chances of the unvaccinated person having COVID are much higher than the previous scenario. The heightened chance of the first person having COVID, means a much heightened chance for the 2nd vaccinated person to then catch COVID in a breakout case. This heightened chance is the same regardless of what the statistics say on how contagious vaccinated vs unvaccinated people are.
That leads us to the even higher chance of transmission between two unvaccinated people. Both people in this scenario are more likely to contract COVID when exposed to it, and thus are more likely to have COVID, thus more likely to spread it to the unvaccinated person, and the unvaccinated person is more likely to then contract it. Both are on top of this far more likely to have a severe case of COVID.
So with that established, that brings us to the fact that a small minority of people have real medical reasons why they can't be vaccinated. These people rely on others getting vaccinated to reduce the chances they'll be exposed to covid and therefore reduce the chances of them contracting COVID. The more unvaccinated people there are, the higher the chance that these people will get COVID, which is unfair on them given many would like the extra protection vaccination offers but are simply unable to take it up.
COVID is serious. Yes while lots of people make full recoveries, there are significant numbers who go on to suffer from 'Long Covid'. Plenty of people suffer from serious cases of COVID which can cause all sorts of serious medical issues with the body. Plenty of otherwise healthy people have become very sick with COVID. Those who say that "oh well COVID only effects those with preexisting conditions" ignore the fact that around 20 percent of adults (18-64)in the US have a preexisting condition which puts them at a higher risk of a serious case of COVD. That's 1 in 5! Then there are all the 65+ who are also at higher risk - the total is nearly 4/10 Americans are at higher risk. - 2 in 5. These are huge numbers of people, not a small subsection of people.
Then theres also the problem of hospitals and ICU departments being stretched beyond breaking point. Medical staff are risking their own wellbeing to treat patients with COVID, who likely wouldn't be in hospital if they'd been vaccinated. This takes away from the resources hospitals have to deal with other patients in critical condition and makes it riskier to operate and treat patients whose health depends on being treated. My cousins are nurses, one works in emergency and it frustrates me greatly that her chances of getting COVID are so much higher because of people who are medically able but refuse vaccination.
If a person's vaccination status had no bearing on other people's wellbeing, there would be a lot less care from others on who was vaccinated or not, but the fact remains that people's choices with regards to vaccination impact others.
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As someone who takes care of people with Covid, I can tell you from personal experience that statement about under 50 being fine is false. The average age of patients in our ICU with Covid, right now, is 48. And automobile fatalities are not even in the same zip code as Covid. There were 38,680 auto fatalities last year in the US. More than that have died of Covid in the last month. Furthermore, people are dying every day of non-Covid illnesses because Covid patients are clogging the hospitals.
If you really believe you don't need to get vaccinated, then you should put your money where your mouth is and agree not to seek care at a hospital when you do get sick. If you're not willing to do that, then do everyone a favor and man up and get your vaccination.
I've had several patients who've gotten Covid twice, and one who got it three times. Reinfection is a real thing.
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Thank you for the work you are doing. I think healthcare workers have had the toughest jobs of anyone in this. Not helped at all by the deniers.
What was the average age of an auto fatality in 2020 and what was the average age of a Covid death in 2020?
Do you say the same re: AIDS patients? The obese? Smokers? It’s really easy not to contract AIDS or not weigh 400 pounds or not smoke cigarettes after 70 years of warnings.