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Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,147
31,204
https://daringfireball.net/2019/11/cook_trump_campaign_ad
A low moment in Apple’s proud history, and a sadly iconic moment for Tim Cook. I hope avoiding those tariffs is worth it.

First time I’ve seen John Gruber take a swipe at Tim Cook on his website. I’m curious though, if Tim Cook was a fan of Trump (or at least neutral) would Gruber stop using Apple products? Tim Cook isn’t going to get Trump re-elected. Also he’s got more important things to worry about than whether he’s allowing Trump to use Apple for some good PR. If doing so benefits Apple policy wise I would argue it’s a worthwhile tradeoff.
 
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Bryan Bowler

macrumors 601
Sep 27, 2008
4,024
4,347
I think you should read up on the definition of proud. You can be proud of your own achievements but not for someone visiting a factory. To your defense, the word ‘proud’ is overly and incorrectly used in US all the time.

Thanks for the grammar lesson, but I am still proud to see the new MacPro being built in the USA and I am proud President Trump stopped in to learn more about Apple's facility in Austin. It's simply how I feel. Have a nice day.
 

sransari

macrumors 6502
Feb 11, 2005
363
130
It's such a shame that so much of Tim Apple's time and energy is wasted to playing politics rather than to focusing on innovation.
 

Brandhouse

macrumors 6502a
Aug 6, 2014
550
882
Not necessarily. iPhones are very small in comparison so shipping components from around the world to China then shipping a bunch of assembled phones back to the US is relatively in expensive (compared to shipping Mac Pros around the world). Plus, I suspect there will be a lot of automation in the new factory so labor costs will be a relatively small percentage of total costs. I am happy to see this and I wish them well.

I agree with bringing production back into the country. I'm in Australia where we now now longer have any cars made in Australia, which is a great loss to the manufacturing industry. Sadly it came down to economics and the costs of labour. So it becomes a question of can a company support the costs and can the consumer bear the cost increase that result from it all?
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
6,250
2,576
Western US
They can build it in Texas because pros will pay more for it. The price hike for an American-made iPhone would be too much for the average user.
Probably. I'm curious though, how much would it cost? 10% more? 50% more? 500% more? I have no idea. I've never seen a good answer to this question.
 

Bryan Bowler

macrumors 601
Sep 27, 2008
4,024
4,347
like what positive things? Being shining an example that criminal and corrupt behavior is ok? That your own advantage is always the most important goal? That constant lying and bullsh**ting is fine?
Great way to teach your children really! Maga!

There is no need for so much hatred.

Just because someone appreciates the good things President Trump has done for the United States does not mean they are a bad parent. You didn't mention racism at all, but that is also something that is commonly thrown out there towards people that express support for our President. I just don't understand these false accusations and claims...or the hatred that is often attached to it.

Like everyone, I have my own views. However, I have found it far more productive to listen and be open-minded to other people's opinions and then internally balance that against my own perspectives. I am kind to everyone, even those I may disagree with. And by no means am I disrespectful to our country's elected leaders, no matter what political party they belong to. My fellow Americans elected President Obama and they elected President Trump. I respect the hard work both have done for our country.

If all of us spent a little more time listening, being kind, and respectful, the world would be a much better place.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,578
22,046
Singapore
It's such a shame that so much of Tim Apple's time and energy is wasted to playing politics rather than to focusing on innovation.

Tim Cook is learning how to use Apple’s power to his advantage in order to give the company a more attractive operating environment which ultimately comes back to benefit Apple’s employees, customers, partners, and shareholders. He is clearly playing the long game by building up a good relationship with the administration, and will continue to do with in future regardless of who is in power.

I would expect no less of any CEO. Tim Cook is no fool, and clearly knows very well what he is doing. And running a successful company involves not just making great products, but also learning to navigate the political climate at any one time.
 

developer13245

macrumors 6502a
Nov 15, 2012
771
1,003
It's perfectly normal for company representatives to wear a company-branded hard hat while on-site at a construction project. Here's me :)
View attachment 878496
The hat is for safety. It's not a fashion statement or status symbol or pretending that you do manual labor. And it doesn't fit flat on your head like some kind of hardened plastic baseball cap.
View attachment 878498

WRONG! Inferior in every way possible.

Jony Ive did NOT reimagine that hard hat with Apple DNA design genius, therefore it is totally inappropriate for any purpose. Putting an Apple logo on it is the highest form of SIN!!!
 
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mikethemartian

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2017
1,483
2,239
Melbourne, FL
It's perfectly normal for company representatives to wear a company-branded hard hat while on-site at a construction project. Here's me :)
View attachment 878496
The hat is for safety. It's not a fashion statement or status symbol or pretending that you do manual labor. And it doesn't fit flat on your head like some kind of hardened plastic baseball cap.
View attachment 878498
Is your company primarily a construction company?
 

CartoonCat

macrumors regular
Feb 3, 2014
122
54
I'm really happy to see some traction on USA side of manufacturing for :apple:

I don't see how this can be spun as a bad thing, but I'm sure I'll find out :p

Something Trump would approve of has to be terrible by default. No need to spin because the spin is already built into far left ideology. The Trump name alone brings shudders to far lefties. The far right is just as bad in the other direction. "Can't we all just get along?" Apparently not.
 
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mikethemartian

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2017
1,483
2,239
Melbourne, FL
Something Trump would approve of has to be terrible by default. No need to spin because the spin is already built into far left ideology. The Trump name alone brings shudders to far lefties. The far right is just as bad in the other direction. "Can't we all just get along?" Apparently not.
Personally I just view him as a clown. Not the Joker sort of clown, more like the Bozo type.
 

FriendlyMackle

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2011
867
764
NYC
Good move, but it’s not enough!

Get out of China!

It was very disturbing to read the reports last week that the Chinese are still killing prisoners to harvest their organs. Sad to see Apple bow down to their government that does stuff like this. I’d gladly pay more to not support the Chinese!
The thing is NO ONE in the West should be doing business with/in China.

Arresting dissidents and/or criminals...and harvesting their organs!

That is truly something out of a nightmare future.

I have read about this several times now in various news sources, and yet I don't see major coverage nor any political action.

So, today our politicians made a 'statement' in support of the protesters.

USELESS.

You can bet that when all of these kids are rounded up they'll be disappeared and mined for body parts/organs. And our government will never address this - which is far more horrible than their public actions against the protesters thus far. After all, what's in public is on-camera.
 
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2984839

Cancelled
Apr 19, 2014
2,114
2,239
I'm not in the market for a Mac Pro right now, but if they offered an iPhone that was made in the US, I'd happily pay extra for it.
 

FriendlyMackle

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2011
867
764
NYC
"Cook added that "in terms of the Hong Kong situation, I hope and pray for everyone's safety," and "more broadly I pray for dialogue, because I think that good people coming together can decide ways forward.""

This is blatant and dangerous ignorance. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has blatantly violated the handover treaty. The Hong Kong authorities have been corrupted by the CCP and are now seen as a puppet.

The CCP will never implement 2 systems 1 country because they know communism falls without authoritarianism - this is why the CCP cannot let a democratic system stand in Hong Kong. Crushing democracy in Hong Kong is a blatant admission that communism is the failed system. Dialog will never take place because the CCP cannot allow it.

There is no possible path forward while the CCP continues to willfully operate with blatant lawlessness.

Timmy the Crook and other people in such positions are enabling the CCP to continue its despicable behavior.

A famous quote almost applies here: "what we must fear most is the indifference of good men."

I say almost because Timmy should know better, but because Timmy hasn't taken the correct position about this issue, I cannot consider him a good man. He is a CCP puppet.
You are looking for 'justice' in the wrong place. Our governments need to make doing business with China illegal. I'll wait to see when that happens (certainly not in my lifetime)!

I am completely in agreement with you that China/CCP have very obviously violated the agreement, and have done for some time now. These latest changes though were where the HK citizens knew would be a point of no return.

Unfortunately, we all know how this will end. With these kids—and probably their families!—imprisoned and the murdered by the state.

Then their organs will be harvested and sold to the highest bidders/wealthiest. Which we should call what it is: cannibalism. What else do you call it when human beings consume other human beings for parts!?

No one in any democracy should be doing business with China. They should be treated like the pariah state that they truly are. But until our government addresses this, businesses will continue to invest and sell products in China. It is their fiduciary duty to their companies to maximize profit and...sell to all available markets. China needs to be made 'unavailable.'

The U.S. thought that capitalism would ultimately democratize China. We're seeing that this will not happen—not without another revolution, and probably a great deal of bloodshed. Those monsters in power have no plans to ever relinquish control. China is the dream-nation for murderous totalitarians everywhere.
 
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1146331

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2018
258
551
You should take your own advice and read his comment without the blind hate just because he dared to criticize your hero. Everything he said is factually correct. Facts don't care about your feelings.
I'm not an idiot, I read his comment correctly. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it true.

But hey, keep voting for (D) blindly, it'll take you to the bottom of the barrel.
 
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rjp1

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2015
612
2,007
The thing is NO ONE in the West should be doing business with/in China.

Arresting dissidents and/or criminals...and harvesting their organs!

That is truly something out of a nightmare future.

I have read about this several times now in various news sources, and yet I don't see major coverage nor any political action.

So, today our politicians made a 'statement' in support of the protesters.

USELESS.

You can bet that when all of these kids are rounded up they'll be disappeared and mined for body parts/organs. And our government will never address this - which is far more horrible than their public actions against the protesters thus far. After all, what's in public is on-camera.
People are willing to overlook it for getting stuff cheap. It makes me sick knowing that when you buy Chinese - part of that money is being used to finance things like organ harvesting.

Apple is in a unique position where they have the capital to create the infrastructure to produce things in other countries (ideally at home in the US!) and they have a customer base that is willing to pay higher prices. They aren’t even just neutral about dealing with the Chinese - they want to further get into bed with them! That is what is really disturbing.

They can make a few tweets or sell a rainbow watch band - simple things to get good PR. Their actions with the Chinese show their real values.

As a country, we should really shun Apple and any other company that demonstrates this behavior. China is going through a massive campaign with their people to make buying Chinese a big deal and to look down on buying American goods.

I’m guilty though, I buy all kinds of Apple stuff.
 
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MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,878
2,363
Portland, Ore.
I don't disagree with you about the livable wage, but I have to point out the workers in China are not trying to earn a wage to live in the U.S. Their wage is more than sufficient for living in China, where cost of living is much lower, especially for spending in rural areas.

That’s not true. Rent and basic necessities may be lower, but the prices of other goods are not. A surviving wage is not a livable wage. Slave owners used to make the same kinds of arguments. “They grew up as slaves so it’s all they know. They like being slaves. They have everything they need.”
 
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Marekul

Suspended
Jan 2, 2018
376
638
You should probably stop consuming all Apple products out of protest. I would also suggest you boycott all social media sites and forums that portray Apple in a positive light. You posting here just just fuels the evil of "Timmy the crook" in particular and the CCP at larger. most ways anybody could think of it would be much more righteous for you to express your outrage with complete silence.

Your post contributes to the problem.
I bet Apple marketing would love that... But really there is no logic in your statement.
How about you take your own advice and boycott all sites and social media that portrait Apple in a negative light? Because it would be much more righteous for you to express your outrage with complete silence. Because complete silence leads to change and a better world, especially when it comes to social and political issues. Not.
 

thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
People are willing to overlook it for getting stuff cheap. It makes me sick knowing that when you buy Chinese - part of that money is being used to finance things like organ harvesting.

Apple is in a unique position where they have the capital to create the infrastructure to produce things in other countries (ideally at home in the US!) and they have a customer base that is willing to pay higher prices. They aren’t even just neutral about dealing with the Chinese - they want to further get into bed with them! That is what is really disturbing.

They can make a few tweets or sell a rainbow watch band - simple things to get good PR. Their actions with the Chinese show their real values.

As a country, we should really shun Apple and any other company that demonstrates this behavior. China is going through a massive campaign with their people to make buying Chinese a big deal and to look down on buying American goods.

I’m guilty though, I buy all kinds of Apple stuff.

Many are weak in this Country in reference to protesting against Apple and as long they have their iPhone/MBP... they're blinded.
 
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Darth Tulhu

macrumors 68020
Apr 10, 2019
2,170
3,578
You are looking for 'justice' in the wrong place. Our governments need to make doing business with China illegal. I'll wait to see when that happens (certainly not in my lifetime)!

I am completely in agreement with you that China/CCP have very obviously violated the agreement, and have done for some time now. These latest changes though were where the HK citizens knew would be a point of no return.

Unfortunately, we all know how this will end. With these kids—and probably their families!—imprisoned and the murdered by the state.

Then their organs will be harvested and sold to the highest bidders/wealthiest. Which we should call what it is: cannibalism. What else do you call it when human beings consume other human beings for parts!?

No one in any democracy should be doing business with China. They should be treated like the pariah state that they truly are. But until our government addresses this, businesses will continue to invest and sell products in China. It is their fiduciary duty to their companies to maximize profit and...sell to all available markets. China needs to be made 'unavailable.'

The U.S. thought that capitalism would ultimately democratize China. We're seeing that this will not happen—not without another revolution, and probably a great deal of bloodshed. Those monsters in power have no plans to ever relinquish control. China is the dream-nation for murderous totalitarians everywhere.

Apple, and the rest of the companies in the entire globe, exist for the express purpose of making money.
Making money is the cornerstone of capitalism, right along with competition to make said money.
And capitalism is amoral.
Thus, the expectation of egalitarianism from any company is disingenuous at best.
If American companies don't do business in China, someone else will.

It is not the role of companies to democratize countries. It is the role of the people in the country, and of foreign governments by leading by example and diplomacy (not war).

All that said, I am not Chinese, and I've never even been to China, let alone conversed with someone from there. So ALL the info I have regarding the country is hearsay.

But what's going on over there is, at least in part, the consequence (and perhaps overreaction?) of centuries of unchecked Euro-centric capitalism, ever since Europeans developed sails and cannons, and decided to conquer the entire globe in one form or another. That, coupled with human base instincts of greed and power.

The issue is nowhere near as simple as standing up and expressing (justified) dissent, although we have to start somewere. But no one want's to discuss or even acknowledge the root cause, we just try to address the visible symptoms. Beacuse no one wants to go: "oh man, WE started this".
 
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