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Sora

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2007
358
130
New York, NY
Only an ******* don't use mask, no matter if have is it's vaccinated or not. You still can get COVID and spread over others. Pandemic is not over yet.

Wait until you find out doctors/nurses, people with weakened immune systems, and construction/manufacturing professionals have been wearing masks well before the pandemic.
antimaskers / antivaxer are the same people who copied off your tests and quizzes in an attempt to pass biology. I don’t blame them for their position. It’s like getting mad at a 2 year old kid for not understanding how to solve non-homogenous equations.
The key is understanding there is a significant knowledge gap that can’t be fixed by any post.
It is what it is.
 
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Agent OrangeZ

macrumors 68040
Mar 17, 2010
3,016
3,015
Planet Earth
Masks work

View attachment 1967487

And until this pandemic is REALLY over, I fully intend to keep wearing one every time I'm in public. All of you should too.

Also, Omicron isn't a booster, it's a potentially deadly virus. You can get a real booster at your local pharmacy. It's even free! Worked for me, I never got sick.
I got injected with Pfizer juice 3 times and so did my wife. And and my kids that are old enough. Only one that didn't was my 2 year old. We all got sick.
 

Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,553
4,032
Brooklyn, NY
I get a huge chuckle out of //r/covidatemyface/ The more previous antimask/vaccine posts can be compiled to accompany their obituary adds more context and makes is even more hilarious.

Doing the right thing is hard, inconvenient and requires discipline and consistency. Personally - ill be wearing my mask until the data demonstrates it’s safe not to. This pullback has happened before only to be followed by a nasty surge. So I’ll be watching the next few months intensely.

Oh and there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask outside. If only human breath were made visible like vaping - it would blow your mind.
What data are you following? CDC says it’s safe now. Are you looking at something else? I don’t care if you wear a mask outside. Be my guest, I enjoy fresh air.
 

hetrigger

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2011
195
145
Texas
Fear, such as fear of death or fear of long-term health consequences, is RATIONAL.


You’re basically declaring that some people don’t deserve to be protected or their deaths counted because of “preexisting conditions”.


Because people with immune system deficits are forced to rely on those AROUND THEM being cautious and giving a damn about them.


They’re at risk of other things beyond covid, yes. They DO take precautions of their own, but now you’re expecting them to never go out in public again, because there’s an infectious agent coursing through our civilization that wasn’t there before, and a political decision has been made to act like the pandemic is over.

Covid is a particularly exceptional risk, that has had us IN A STATE OF PANDEMIC, in terms of its presence/availability and its risk factor to everyone, let alone vulnerable people.

We live in a society. The whole POINT is that we HELP EACH OTHER.

I’ve said enough. I’m closing this tab for my own sanity. If people already can’t be bothered to think about others, me chiding them won’t do a damned thing to change their ways. It’s grotesque and depressing.
Actually, you are wrong in your comment of my quote. Regardless of pre existing conditions, any death was attributed to covid...not the actual condition. Take Colin Powell. He had cancer (can't remember which), was "vaccinated" and "boosted", still died. He died of covid...or so it was reported. How? He was "protected". IF the "vaccine" works, then how did he die of covid and not cancer?

It boils down to money. A hospital gets more money to treat a covid patient than a cancer patient. Let that sink in. It has been that way since the beginning. Big pharma has made a lot of money on this. Politicians have had a big power grab on this. And we the public, are left holding the bag and paying the check. If you don't believe me, look at the social distancing aspect. Protests, sporting events, all went on. Did covid magically disappear during these times?

I am all for vaccines...and masks to a certain extent if worn properly and in certain environments. I have issues with wearing them outside or in your car...by yourself...with gloves (and not changing them to prevent cross contamination). I also have issues with a "vaccine" that is not only rushed...but protected from lawsuits if someone who gets it dies, or becomes much more ill due to it (enlarging kids hearts for no reason). When was the last time ordered something without reading what is in it? Especially if it is going into your body (reading terms and conditions exempt from this statement)? We know more about HIV than covid...and there is no 100% cure to HIV...nor herpes...nor a good portion of cancers. And yet we can trust big pharma to come up with a cure for a disease that has been around about 2 years (one when the vaccines started coming out)? We distrust certain existing meds that have been around for decades that MAY help because the Cheeto said it would work? And the FDA monitors the prescriptions given of this/these drug(s) and threatens them? And this is alright with you? Remember that little blue pill? Designed for low blood pressure...now it keeps your "spirits"...up. Aspirin...a pain reliever...also a blood thinner. And yet these 3 "vaccines" are the only "cure"...

IF this "vaccine" worked as advertised, look at your card they gave you. Why is there more than two spaces (based on the two shot dates requirement)? Why are "vaccinated" still dying of covid? IF they stated that they died of (insert condition here) due to complications with covid...I can get behind that. However, they don't.

As for the maskings in stores...they are a public (or private) businesses. IF they ask me to wear a mask in the store...guess what I am doing...wearing a mask...properly. Not under my chin...not under my nose...properly (not knitted like a certain actress that later got covid and couldn't understand why). I have seen so many people doing this...and it is stupid. And managers refuse to correct them on it. And why? because they are tired of the mandates and they are just happy that someone is working in that establishment (statement not directed to Apple Stores).

For the record, I have no issue with challenging my statement...I want it challenged. I want it challenged with an open mind. I am in the mindset of if you want to be vaccinated...do it. You want to where a mask...do it and do it properly. HOWEVER, don't force me to do it. I had a child that was got covid...after the shot. Not before...after. I don't believe the shots work...my opinion. I don't think the masks work unless you are the one sick. I think that the way the CDC say if you have flu like symptoms...get a covid test...this skews the numbers. They also refuse to give a complete breakdown on the deaths. "Healthy" vs ones with a comorbidity. And I don't fault the CDC on this one completely. It starts local and is passed up the chain.

IF you want to mask up and get shotted and wear gloves (change your gloves each time you touch something)...go ahead on. You do you. And unless you are a doctor or a medical staff, I do not be forced to tell you my shotted status...unless I freely give it to you. And if you are the ones I hear about that say that if a person that is unvaxxed they should not get treated because of it...then you are worse than those you accuse of being anti science. Which is ironic...science is to be challenged...it confirms or rejects the work being proposed. Something about facts and stuff like that.
 

dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,245
1,867
Actually, you are wrong in your comment of my quote. Regardless of pre existing conditions, any death was attributed to covid...not the actual condition. Take Colin Powell. He had cancer (can't remember which), was "vaccinated" and "boosted", still died. He died of covid...or so it was reported. How? He was "protected". IF the "vaccine" works, then how did he die of covid and not cancer?

It boils down to money. A hospital gets more money to treat a covid patient than a cancer patient. Let that sink in. It has been that way since the beginning. Big pharma has made a lot of money on this. Politicians have had a big power grab on this. And we the public, are left holding the bag and paying the check. If you don't believe me, look at the social distancing aspect. Protests, sporting events, all went on. Did covid magically disappear during these times?

I am all for vaccines...and masks to a certain extent if worn properly and in certain environments. I have issues with wearing them outside or in your car...by yourself...with gloves (and not changing them to prevent cross contamination). I also have issues with a "vaccine" that is not only rushed...but protected from lawsuits if someone who gets it dies, or becomes much more ill due to it (enlarging kids hearts for no reason). When was the last time ordered something without reading what is in it? Especially if it is going into your body (reading terms and conditions exempt from this statement)? We know more about HIV than covid...and there is no 100% cure to HIV...nor herpes...nor a good portion of cancers. And yet we can trust big pharma to come up with a cure for a disease that has been around about 2 years (one when the vaccines started coming out)? We distrust certain existing meds that have been around for decades that MAY help because the Cheeto said it would work? And the FDA monitors the prescriptions given of this/these drug(s) and threatens them? And this is alright with you? Remember that little blue pill? Designed for low blood pressure...now it keeps your "spirits"...up. Aspirin...a pain reliever...also a blood thinner. And yet these 3 "vaccines" are the only "cure"...

IF this "vaccine" worked as advertised, look at your card they gave you. Why is there more than two spaces (based on the two shot dates requirement)? Why are "vaccinated" still dying of covid? IF they stated that they died of (insert condition here) due to complications with covid...I can get behind that. However, they don't.

As for the maskings in stores...they are a public (or private) businesses. IF they ask me to wear a mask in the store...guess what I am doing...wearing a mask...properly. Not under my chin...not under my nose...properly (not knitted like a certain actress that later got covid and couldn't understand why). I have seen so many people doing this...and it is stupid. And managers refuse to correct them on it. And why? because they are tired of the mandates and they are just happy that someone is working in that establishment (statement not directed to Apple Stores).

For the record, I have no issue with challenging my statement...I want it challenged. I want it challenged with an open mind. I am in the mindset of if you want to be vaccinated...do it. You want to where a mask...do it and do it properly. HOWEVER, don't force me to do it. I had a child that was got covid...after the shot. Not before...after. I don't believe the shots work...my opinion. I don't think the masks work unless you are the one sick. I think that the way the CDC say if you have flu like symptoms...get a covid test...this skews the numbers. They also refuse to give a complete breakdown on the deaths. "Healthy" vs ones with a comorbidity. And I don't fault the CDC on this one completely. It starts local and is passed up the chain.

IF you want to mask up and get shotted and wear gloves (change your gloves each time you touch something)...go ahead on. You do you. And unless you are a doctor or a medical staff, I do not be forced to tell you my shotted status...unless I freely give it to you. And if you are the ones I hear about that say that if a person that is unvaxxed they should not get treated because of it...then you are worse than those you accuse of being anti science. Which is ironic...science is to be challenged...it confirms or rejects the work being proposed. Something about facts and stuff like that.

I will not go point by point in response. I'm so damned burnt out by everything. I am anti-corporate, and averse to political BS, but I also am not a conspiracy theorist. Your opinion that the vaccines don't work is predicated on the belief that they're intended to prevent infections. That is not correct. They're intended to reduce the consequences of an infection, and efficacy for this objective has been proven by stats, overwhelmingly.

I appreciate that you make a point to use masks CORRECTLY, and that you consider cross-contamination. Thank you for that. My observations for years (even prior to covid) are that MOST PEOPLE cannot comprehend cross-contamination. Even effing HOSPITAL NURSES and the nursing assistants. I took better care of my cancer-suffering companion when she was in hospital than her actual nurses and nurses' assistants did. It's maddening.

Watching her being effectively bullied by an uninformed or overtly antipathetic populous during covid has just made my resentment of the general populous all the worse. I did not set out to be misanthropic, but the arrogance, ignorance, antipathy, callousness, and overt sociopathy of so many people in my country (from neighbors to corporations to government) has made me wish I could live ten miles (in all directions) from ANY other American that I have not chosen to make family.
 

hetrigger

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2011
195
145
Texas
I will not go point by point in response. I'm so damned burnt out by everything. I am anti-corporate, and averse to political BS, but I also am not a conspiracy theorist. Your opinion that the vaccines don't work is predicated on the belief that they're intended to prevent infections. That is not correct. They're intended to reduce the consequences of an infection, and efficacy for this objective has been proven by stats, overwhelmingly.

I appreciate that you make a point to use masks CORRECTLY, and that you consider cross-contamination. Thank you for that. My observations for years (even prior to covid) are that MOST PEOPLE cannot comprehend cross-contamination. Even effing HOSPITAL NURSES and the nursing assistants. I took better care of my cancer-suffering companion when she was in hospital than her actual nurses and nurses' assistants did. It's maddening.

Watching her being effectively bullied by an uninformed or overtly antipathetic populous during covid has just made my resentment of the general populous all the worse. I did not set out to be misanthropic, but the arrogance, ignorance, antipathy, callousness, and overt sociopathy of so many people in my country (from neighbors to corporations to government) has made me wish I could live ten miles (in all directions) from ANY other American that I have not chosen to make family.
Not a conspiracy theorist...I try to find common ground on both sides. There are vaccines and there are inoculations. Inoculations limit or reduce the severity. Vaccines prevent. Think polio and MMR. Then there is a cure. That is when you have something and it makes it go away. Whatever they are giving away like candy is not the cure...it is not a vaccine. Also, if I remember correctly, vaccines have live or dead viruses...mRNA can't do that. Hence why it can never be added to a flu shot.

I am truly sorry how your companion was treated. I just hate people other than some of my family in general. People just suck.
 

iBreatheApple

macrumors 68030
Sep 3, 2011
2,957
1,054
Florida
Wait until you find out doctors/nurses, people with weakened immune systems, and construction/manufacturing professionals have been wearing masks well before the pandemic.
Wait until YOU find out that at the very beginning nurses and physicians were getting SENT HOME for wearing masks in the hallways because you never wear PPE outside a patients room due to contamination. All of this has been a joke.
 

szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68040
Jul 28, 2012
3,502
4,367
Wait until YOU find out that at the very beginning nurses and physicians were getting SENT HOME for wearing masks in the hallways because you never wear PPE outside a patients room due to contamination. All of this has been a joke.
Source on the contamination part? Seems illogical since doctors don't take off their gowns in the hallways even though the same risks would apply. Most reports I read back in 2020 about the issue indicated some hospitals were preventing doctors from wearing PPE in common areas because of the lack of supply of surgical masks and N95s.
 

iBreatheApple

macrumors 68030
Sep 3, 2011
2,957
1,054
Florida
Source on the contamination part? Seems illogical since doctors don't take off their gowns in the hallways even though the same risks would apply. Most reports I read back in 2020 about the issue indicated some hospitals were preventing doctors from wearing PPE in common areas because of the lack of supply of surgical masks and N95s.
It was standard hospital policy / best practice, (virtually) nationwide before COVID, that PPE was never worn outside a patient room. As for gowns in the hallway, that shouldn’t happen - even since COVID. But yes, I’m sure that there are physicians, and others, who can be occasionally seen wearing a gown in the Hallway. I guarantee you somebody on a risk management or quality team wouldn’t be afraid to stop them if they saw (again, nothing to do with COVID). It’s not commonplace and is highly discouraged / in direct opposition of universal precautions.

Also, there are googles of pages containing evidence-based, peer-reviewed literature that indicate the proper use and disposal of PPE. Now, obviously with something like a pandemic when masks were in short supply of course you have to be smart with the resources you have and where the same mask all day. Because that’s better than no mask at all.

“PPE is available to minimize the potential harm from exposure to pathogens such as the Ebola virus. When PPE is worn, removed, and >>discarded properly<<, it is effective in protecting the person wearing it >>>and the patients and health care workers with whom that person comes into contact<<<.”

 
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siddavis

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2009
863
2,905
It was standard hospital policy / best practice, (virtually) nationwide before COVID, that PPE was never worn outside a patient room. As for gowns in the hallway, that shouldn’t happen - even since COVID. But yes, I’m sure that there are physicians, and others, who can be occasionally seen wearing a gown in the Hallway. I guarantee you somebody on a risk management or quality team wouldn’t be afraid to stop them if they saw (again, nothing to do with COVID). It’s not commonplace and is highly discouraged / in direct opposition of universal precautions.

Also, there are googles of pages containing evidence-based, peer-reviewed literature that indicate the proper use and disposal of PPE. Now, obviously with something like a pandemic when masks were in short supply of course you have to be smart with the resources you have and where the same mask all day. Because that’s better than no mask at all.

“PPE is available to minimize the potential harm from exposure to pathogens such as the Ebola virus. When PPE is worn, removed, and >>discarded properly<<, it is effective in protecting the person wearing it >>>and the patients and health care workers with whom that person comes into contact<<<.”

Your information matters not. For many it is a symbol that they "care".

The loudest voices are just too polarized with everything. It's either full on 100% or absolutely nothing 0% and everyone must abide to either one of these. This leaves no room for good, measured discussions and evaluations that should lead to outcomes that truly help most without also destroying important things in the process.

Risk calculation and appropriate response has completely gone out the window.
 

szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68040
Jul 28, 2012
3,502
4,367
It was standard hospital policy / best practice, (virtually) nationwide before COVID, that PPE was never worn outside a patient room. As for gowns in the hallway, that shouldn’t happen - even since COVID. But yes, I’m sure that there are physicians, and others, who can be occasionally seen wearing a gown in the Hallway. I guarantee you somebody on a risk management or quality team wouldn’t be afraid to stop them if they saw (again, nothing to do with COVID). It’s not commonplace and is highly discouraged / in direct opposition of universal precautions.

Also, there are googles of pages containing evidence-based, peer-reviewed literature that indicate the proper use and disposal of PPE. Now, obviously with something like a pandemic when masks were in short supply of course you have to be smart with the resources you have and where the same mask all day. Because that’s better than no mask at all.

“PPE is available to minimize the potential harm from exposure to pathogens such as the Ebola virus. When PPE is worn, removed, and >>discarded properly<<, it is effective in protecting the person wearing it >>>and the patients and health care workers with whom that person comes into contact<<<.”


This is about the removal of PPE after coming in contact with an infected patient. Obviously PPE will need to be properly disposed of after being in a contaminated area but there is nothing to suggest against changing to a mask that was not in contact with a infectious patient.

Also, I think we are talking about different gowns. I’m referring to the white fabric gowns, not disposable surgical gowns, which is typically worn when visiting non-infectious patients.
 
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dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,245
1,867
Your information matters not. For many it is a symbol that they "care".

The loudest voices are just too polarized with everything. It's either full on 100% or absolutely nothing 0% and everyone must abide to either one of these. This leaves no room for good, measured discussions and evaluations that should lead to outcomes that truly help most without also destroying important things in the process.

Risk calculation and appropriate response has completely gone out the window.
You mean risk calculation has been hijacked by “live your life” rhetoric, and those people have made it appear that there are only two sides.

Those of us who consider things like airborne contamination, proper usage of PPE, and cross-contamination existed before covid. Covid just made us look “crazy” to everyone who doesn’t comprehend it... or doesn’t want to know, because “I’m not gonna live my life in fear” is just a rationalization for “I can’t accept scary facts”.

EDIT: Damn. I said I wasn’t going to comment in here anymore.
 

siddavis

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2009
863
2,905
You mean risk calculation has been hijacked by “live your life” rhetoric, and those people have made it appear that there are only two sides.
Right, it definitely wasn't silencing, banning and mandating. That wasn't just for appearances. Those people...
 
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iBreatheApple

macrumors 68030
Sep 3, 2011
2,957
1,054
Florida
This is about the removal of PPE after coming in contact with an infected patient. Obviously PPE will need to be properly disposed of after being in a contaminated area but there is nothing to suggest against changing to a mask that was not in contact with a infectious patient.

Also, I think we are talking about different gowns. I’m referring to the white fabric gowns, not disposable surgical gowns, which is typically worn when visiting non-infectious patients.
You guys can search the web if you’d like, I don’t want to spend any more time on it. What I’m saying, whether anyone thinks I’m wrong or not, is that masks were not to be worn outside of rooms in an acute care setting before COVID. And in fact nurses were getting SENT HOME around March of 2020 for doing so (people who learned about it early on and were getting scared about what they were reading/hearing). This was not limited to only my current health system.

The hospitals will do whatever the CDC says if they want to be reimbursed by CMS/Medicaid/Medicare. CMS says you have to follow/adhere to one of several regulatory agencies recommendations/practices such as the Joint Commission or DNV if you want reimbursement. And these regulatory agencies do what CDC says (for lack of a more in-depth conversation).
 
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Treq

macrumors 6502a
Apr 23, 2009
970
1,523
Santa Monica, CA
You guys can search the web if you’d like, I don’t want to spend any more time on it. What I’m saying, whether anyone thinks I’m wrong or not, is that masks were not to be worn outside of rooms in an acute care setting before COVID. And in fact nurses were getting SENT HOME around March of 2020 for doing so (people who learned about it early on and were getting scared about what they were reading/hearing). This was not limited to only my current health system.

The hospitals will do whatever the CDC says if they want to be reimbursed by CMS/Medicaid/Medicare. CMS says you have to follow/adhere to one of several regulatory agencies recommendations/practices such as the Joint Commission or DNV if you want reimbursement. And these regulatory agencies do what CDC says (for lack of a more in-depth conversation).
I think what you are referring to is the proper disposal of PPE when dealing with patients. Not wearing it outside of the room of an infected patient is so you don’t cross contaminate and spread the virus because your PPE has been filtering out and collecting the viral load that would infect you if you weren’t wearing it. It is to be properly disposed of before leaving the infected area. Before the pandemic there was no reason to wear PPE outside of a room. After, of course, there was a reason. So as not to spread a virus to a patient or to others if you were infected. Which was much more likely once COVID started to spread like wildfire. You still need to dispose of the PPE before leaving an infected area, but put on fresh before entering the rest of the world. There should be a zone between those areas where PPE can be safely removed. Like a scrub room. Although I may be mistaken on your point. That’s just how it reads.
 
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BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Because it's not enough for them to make health decisions about their own life - they need to force everyone else to adhere to their personal health decisions.
Nope. That's just a strawman. There are several reasons to care whether other people are masked and vaccinated.
1. To reduce the chance of the virus being spread to people who can't be vaccinated
2. To reduce the chance of the virus mutating into a strain that is more dangerous (More contagious, more deadly, more long term affects, or more resistant to the vaccine)
3. To reduce the chance of breakthrough infections
4. Empathy for human life
 

mdkdue

macrumors regular
Feb 10, 2011
182
168
The greatest data question is how do you know when to stop doing something that has no discernible data driven impact on outcomes? Well...now I guess. But better late than never. Thank goodness for omicron the booster everyone got that we may be done with this thing.
Brilliant post. I just wish more people could realise this.
 
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mdkdue

macrumors regular
Feb 10, 2011
182
168
Nope. That's just a strawman. There are several reasons to care whether other people are masked and vaccinated.
1. To reduce the chance of the virus being spread to people who can't be vaccinated
2. To reduce the chance of the virus mutating into a strain that is more dangerous (More contagious, more deadly, more long term affects, or more resistant to the vaccine)
3. To reduce the chance of breakthrough infections
4. Empathy for human life
I have one question for you.

With this being your opinion, which of course you are entitled too, when do you ever see this all ending and when do you ever see us having a life where we don’t need to walk around covering our faces?

Covid will never be gone, it will be the same in 2,5,10 years time as it is now.

Does this mean you want to wear a mask for the rest of your life?

Please, I’m not attacking you, I am just trying to understand, because things are not changing anytime soon, the way it is now is the best it’s gonna get.
 

mdkdue

macrumors regular
Feb 10, 2011
182
168
Masks work

View attachment 1967487

And until this pandemic is REALLY over, I fully intend to keep wearing one every time I'm in public. All of you should too.

Also, Omicron isn't a booster, it's a potentially deadly virus. You can get a real booster at your local pharmacy. It's even free! Worked for me, I never got sick.
This post depresses me more than words
 

mdkdue

macrumors regular
Feb 10, 2011
182
168
Masks work

View attachment 1967487

And until this pandemic is REALLY over, I fully intend to keep wearing one every time I'm in public. All of you should too.

Also, Omicron isn't a booster, it's a potentially deadly virus. You can get a real booster at your local pharmacy. It's even free! Worked for me, I never got sick.
It will NEVER be fully over. Have fun looking like Bane for the rest of your life
 

mdkdue

macrumors regular
Feb 10, 2011
182
168
This is premature and the responses here are appalling.

I guess nobody here gives a damn about people like my friend with cancer who has a compromised immune system.

Being vaccinated doesn’t stop you getting it. It just makes you more apt to not suffer from it. It also doesn’t stop you giving it to other people, including people with compromised immune systems, who, even while vaccinated, may have a far worse time of it or be at risk of death.

And then there’s long covid.

But yeah, let’s all just act like everything is fine... 🙄
The facts are Covid is now no more deadly to a vaccinated person than the flu, where was this rant two years ago before the pandemic when flu viruses were everywhere day in day out?

If you want to live frozen in ‘pandemic time’ then good luck to you, that’s gonna be some happy life for you.
 
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