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gixxerfool

macrumors 65816
Jun 7, 2008
1,087
786
As someone who came from an entire career with no unions to my first job now with one, this is correct. The union is who represents you. You no longer have the power to individually bargain for better wages or what be it. Being in the union has proved to me, they really don't do much unless they want to. My experience doesnt account for being picked over someone with more seniority than me, I could be better, more qualified and more deserving of a raise or promotion, but if someone else with lesser credentials has been there longer, they get it. I accept that and move on with my day.
 
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NervousFish2

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2014
340
633
That's ridiculous - you can't join a union and then negotiate your own extra benefits. No union would allow that - and then they would turn around and sue the company for trying to deal under the table.
You misunderstood me. What I actually said is there was no legal obstacle preventing Apple giving these workers additional benefits over those negotiated in the contract. The contract is the legal floor of the benefits, not the ceiling.
 

Bawstun

Suspended
Jun 25, 2009
2,374
2,999
I am on the side of all union workers in America. Change only happens from the bottom up. Don't expect any corporation to ever feel any sympathy for their employees. Demanding is the only thing that can achieve dignity and a fair wage.

It’s this unfortunately! If enough people sparked an outrage about this online, like a true viral never-ending outrage…Apple would probably reverse course. Otherwise they won’t. How sad that the only motivating factors are profits and shame.
 

CapitalIdea

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2022
372
1,596
You misunderstood me. What I actually said is there was no legal obstacle preventing Apple giving these workers additional benefits over those negotiated in the contract. The contract is the legal floor of the benefits, not the ceiling.

Do you randomly give a cashier more money than the price of something you are purchasing? If you have employees do you just add extra money into their checks above their earned salary?
 

Robert.Walter

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2012
3,112
4,437
Tim Cook doesn’t deserve to have either a bust of MLK or RFK on his desk as both were strong supporters of both workers rights and unions.
 
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madrigal77

macrumors 6502a
Aug 2, 2018
656
1,406
Unions are nothing more than a ponzi scheme and should be outlawed in their current form. Ever wonder where all those union dues go? Hmmmmm...
 
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Orange Bat

macrumors 6502a
Mar 21, 2021
881
2,448
The reason Apple will need to negotiate new benefits with the union is a matter of civil law. If the union doesn’t like how the new benefits are administered, Apple could find themselves in court fighting the union. Unions are generally a good thing, IMO, but I found that they also mean another layer of bureaucracy that can get in the way.
 
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jdoyle

macrumors 6502
Jul 29, 2004
307
538
Disgraceful from Apple. Large corporate entities rely on a "Divide and Conquer" approach to employees. What power does an individual have against Apple? They may hand out small benefits when they feel like it, but the only way to get have any sort of clout against them is to band together and unionise. The union movement has been demonised In every western world country for decades now and what do we have? Record profits by companies like Apple and employees becoming a new class of working poor. Shame on Apple.
 

bsolar

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2011
1,535
1,751
No, the employees signed up for a union which by law must do the negotiating. Apple even warned them this would happen. Apple does not want unions so there will be two classes of employees with different employment contracts/benefits/pay etc.

The union could negotiate a 4 year contract and Apple the next day could double all non union store pay and union employees would not be able to get that contractually. They have very little leverage. That is why most unions are in the supply chain (shipping/manufacturing) not at the end of it (sales/marketing/business jobs)

The negotiation needs to be done in "good faith" though and sanctions can be imposed if it's determined not to be so. Offering benefits to non-union workers and not offering similar benefits to the union for negotiation could be seen as "bad faith" bargaining, which is actually against the law.

Similarly, negotiating a contract with the union and the next day offering non-union workers much better terms can be dangerous for Apple as it can be interpreted as "bad faith" bargaining.

IMHO Apple is going to offer similar benefits to the union unless they have a pretty good reason to defend the decision not to, e.g. because the union already successfully bargained other kinds of benefits which Apple does not normally offer to its workers.

Most unions are in the supply chain because those positions tend to have much less bargaining power as individual workers. You don't need a union if you already have the bargaining power as individual: you need it if you lack individual bargaining power and need collective bargaining power to compensate.

Ideally, every worker should not need a union given their individual bargaining power being sufficient, but in reality it's not so.
 

gugy

macrumors 68040
Jan 31, 2005
3,898
5,324
La Jolla, CA
It’s this unfortunately! If enough people sparked an outrage about this online, like a true viral never-ending outrage…Apple would probably reverse course. Otherwise they won’t. How sad that the only motivating factors are profits and shame.
Forget online outrage. Honestly, things only will get better in this country when people unite against the elites and corporations. Both parties are corrupted by their donors. The plan is to divide us so they can profit.
 
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GizmoDVD

macrumors 68030
Oct 11, 2008
2,603
5,038
SoCal
Exactly right

Apple's conduct here is very intentional and in the spirit of a union busting/discouragement practice
So Apple can no longer provide anything to non-union members unless they offer the sam to union members?

What's the point of the union at that point aside from them taking money from your paycheck to do...nothing...?
 
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PlayUltimate

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2016
936
1,715
Boulder, CO
My wife, who works 10+ hours as a Sp Ed teacher is paid the same as a PE teacher that works 7 hours a day. That is because the teacher’s union determines everyone’s salary based on the rules. This is not a complaint. But there are advantages for being in a union and advantages for not. When I was managing a team of 50+, there were wide discrepancies in salary even though all we’re doing the same work. (I tried, where I could to normalize it, but was often stymied by upper management.)
 

seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
2,334
3,355
So what’s the problem. They have their union bosses to try to get them that. They didn’t want to play by Apples rules so they got what they deserved. Now they’ll have to bend over for the union and hope they get something close to what the other employees get.
You do get the only reason these benefits were added is the unionization effort, right? This isnt the benevolence of Apple
 

brofkand

macrumors 65816
Jun 11, 2006
1,415
3,565
Those days never existed - people just erroneously think they did.

I realize I am asking for a little much when expecting a website like MacRumors to be impartial, but impartial news did (and still does) exist. It's just rare because it doesn't really make money.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,248
32,855
You do get the only reason these benefits were added is the unionization effort, right? This isnt the benevolence of Apple

Exactly -- that's the key point

The only point of these benefits is to differentiate from the union side and give that the appearance of being a worse path to be on.

It's flat out union discouragement and busting tactics
 
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