One is a job. Another is a career. That’s how I view it. And yes in IT you get called any time of day or night for issues. THAT is what makes a career. Flipping burgers 9-5 and not doing anything until 9 the next day is a job. I have pulled 80 hour work weeks before. I’m salary so I don’t get paid extra. I’m happy to do it when it’s needed because that is what makes a career.
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Apple Employees Reportedly Petitioning Against Plan to Return to Office 3x Per Week
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You're talking about IT Operations, not most development roles. Dev roles are typically not even on call. It's solely the "keep the lights on" roles that are working rotating shifts and on-call. (there are obvious exceptions - iCloud Dev's could be called in to fix a code update that causes global mayhem, for example).
Apple does have a reputation as being a bit of a "sweat shop" - expecting much of their staff to work 6 days a week. Not sure if that changed under Tim's leadership...cultures tend to shift very slowly. If that is still the case, I could definitely see a lot of their staff very much wanting a better work/life balance by working more of their time at home.
It's not just the time lost on the commute - anyone with young families will be saving a LOT of money on childcare by having one of the parents at home all/most of the time. That's a major impact on their financial health.
In our own IT shop, we saw many staff buy homes considerably further from the city, as they expected to be able to continue to work remotely. Commuting is no longer viable...and they wouldn't be able to afford these larger homes if they had to pay the additional monies for child care and their transportation.
I'm on call, I'm salaried, and I still get paid extra for my on call times. Pulling 80 hour weeks regularly without getting paid extra may legit be illegal depending on where you are and either way it's a mark of a crappy employer and staffing situation to end up with that. Sounds like you're getting taken advantage of by your employer to me. Wouldnt it help if you had a lot of people with you to, say, write a petition and push back about that?
As to your original reply, you can *absolutely* make a career out of being a cook flipping burgers, and there's no reason why you shouldnt be able to. People should always be paid a living wage so that that's possible. And look, I like being able to eat a really good burger, don't you? Experienced folks making those burgers make better burgers. There's no reason to look down on such a job just because you work a white collar one, it just makes you look petty tbh
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While you're correct, I was mainly referring to the reputation Apple is attempting to cultivate of being a diverse and inclusive company. Diversity and inclusivity applies to personality expression as well, and one major issue I see is a disregard for introverts in making a company-wide decision like this. But it wouldn't be the first I've heard of Apple disadvantaging introverts.
WFH and the hybrid approach applies to employees of apple not subcategories of race, genders or personalities.
Because once size fits all decision making has never, ever resulted in any problems...
When someone argues such it always reminds me of this:
I wouldn’t want WFH to become mandatory any more than I’d want in-person to become mandatory. But give people the choice and realize that some if not many can still be productive in a WFH setting, that was the only good thing the pandemic taught us…
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A bird, lion and elephant were standing at the edge of a cliff. The officia says jump, if you survive you get a million dollars.Because once size fits all decision making has never, ever resulted in any problems...
When someone argues such it always reminds me of this:
![file.jpg]()
I wouldn’t want WFH to become mandatory any more than I’d want in-person to become mandatory. But give people the choice and realize that some if not many can still be productive in a WFH setting, that was the only good thing the pandemic taught us…
Life is not always fair. You may not get that choice. Appl provides a hybrid approach there are always exeptions. Take it or not.
This.
Being an adult in life means sometimes you’re going to have to do things you don’t want to do. But just because you don’t want to do it doesn’t mean you petition or sue to get your way. It’s called playing by the rules. Don’t play by the rules and the company, really at any time, can say those two little words to you.
At the same time, an employee for any reason can also say two words to their employer.
Luckily I can say I’ve only been fired from one job. And that was because I didn’t do something I should have…….which was bite my tongue.
Saving a lot of money on childcare?
Apple, like a lot of companies has childcare within many of their campuses. No cost to the employee.
Working from home means with young kids you’re distracted if you don’t have them in childcare during your work hours. Nice try with that argument.
Dev roles typically don’t have to be on-call which I agree with but as you stated if major issue got pushed into production they will be. Recall just a few short years ago the default macOS password was blank?! Yeah that would be major fix for on-call.
Not sure where you get this Apple running a sweat shop idea though. Are you talking Hon-Hai production lines? Sure fully agree there, yet that isn’t Apple directly. Are you talking about retail sales? Not likely sweatshop class but no different from other sales retail jobs say from Club Monaco or Forever21. Retail for 6days/wk wasn’t fixed under Laura nor under that HR person either which led to unions and the 6/wk change.
When I was a young teen in the early 90’s I wanted to work 6 days/wk = more money on the bi weekly pay cheque!! I’d say kids are super lazy now and expect big rewards for absolutely minimal work. Many resort to TikTok/YouTube channel creation due to east and fun for them. I mean why not right. But many are realizing not everyone will be a star!
Try telling that SJ quote to those who believe wfh is the penultimate employment situation.
I have personally been to multiple Apple campus locations, although a few years back, and none of them had any childcare or daycare facilities, and judging from articles online the spaceship doesn’t have any either. They might have changed that, I’m just speaking from experience from the last few years.
So you can't say that life is not fair in your particular example. Man can only control his own actions. It is probably the hardest thing to do.Luckily I can say I’ve only been fired from one job. And that was because I didn’t do something I should have…….which was bite my tongue.
That’s crazy, dude. You can always negotiate. Petitioning is a collective negotiation. Both parties have a choice. You get your knickers in a bunch as though someone were suggesting that the government must force Apple to offer WFH.This.
Being an adult in life means sometimes you’re going to have to do things you don’t want to do. But just because you don’t want to do it doesn’t mean you petition or sue to get your way. It’s called playing by the rules. Don’t play by the rules and the company, really at any time, can say those two little words to you.
At the same time, an employee for any reason can also say two words to their employer.
Luckily I can say I’ve only been fired from one job. And that was because I didn’t do something I should have…….which was bite my tongue.
The employees can petition, they can strike, and they can threaten to quit. It’s all well within their rights. Apple can fire them if the Apple management think that the company will do just fine without them. It’s called freedom.
"After a banner year for tech, layoffs are here. In fact, as of late August, more than 39,000workers in the U.S. tech sector have been laid off in mass job cuts so far in 2022, according to a Crunchbase News tally."
news.crunchbase.com
Maybe Apple employees' bargaining power has been reduced.
Tech Layoffs: US Companies With Job Cuts In and 2023 and 2024
Tech layoffs: More than 300,000 workers at US-based tech companies have been laid off in mass job cuts since the start of 2022, with the cuts continuing in 2024.
Maybe Apple employees' bargaining power has been reduced.
Hardly. The IT employees that have been let go are likely peons. Apple's peons are happy to work in the spaceship. Five of them rent one apartment a few miles away from the spaceship. They are not the ones signing petitions."After a banner year for tech, layoffs are here. In fact, as of late August, more than 39,000workers in the U.S. tech sector have been laid off in mass job cuts so far in 2022, according to a Crunchbase News tally."
Tech Layoffs: US Companies With Job Cuts In and 2023 and 2024
Tech layoffs: More than 300,000 workers at US-based tech companies have been laid off in mass job cuts since the start of 2022, with the cuts continuing in 2024.
Maybe Apple employees' bargaining power has been reduced.
With energy prices rising most people will WANT to work in the office, probably do more hours too so they cut energy usage at home 🤣
Not to mention that most workplaces provide facilities to have a shower as well.
I just checked. 2017 articles states it’s a feature lol. Wow thought they’d have one. Unsure if changed but it’s a really terrible miss.
How big is this firm?
What percentage is in I.T. Vs the rest of all other departments? Is this a fortune 100/300/500 company?
Very curious.
Ps: why is it so many people say they work in iiit (IT) vs I.T. (Information technology)?!
Good win for you but not often will happen
Literary they should it's an abbreviation, and being lazy is just ridiculous for 2 letters and 2 dots.
Internesting, that's good. I should've asked how many offices in how many countries but that's mute.