Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

[docfred]

What difference does it make? It functions exactly the same.

Nope. It does not.

A few pages earlier, we talkend about renting a car in the US. In this case, you can’t not work with a N26 MasterCard Debit. You need a real Credit Card, which you won’t get from N26. So you need a second account at least.

And again. We had this already in different discussions and from different points of view.

 

[tabilo]

From mid 2018 on, real time transactions.

Adoption will be very slow for SEPA instant payments, only EBA clearing is ready. ECB clearing will start in November 2018, when we will see somewhat of competition. I would not expect major market traction before 2020 and if you want to transfer real time there are already options for smaller amounts (Cringle, Lendstar).

Apple Pay needs to partner with a network (Visa, MasterCard) to be used in stores, needs to be regulated as a bank in that case (Legitimation requirements for German bank accounts are insanely complex). I definitely do not expect to see an Apple Pay rollout without the major banks.

 

[HerrMueller]

Nope. It does not.

A few pages earlier, we talkend about renting a car in the US. In this case, you can’t not work with a N26 MasterCard Debit. You need a real Credit Card, which you won’t get from N26. So you need a second account at least.

I am not a big fan of N26 (because in the meantime the whole thing and parts of their community seems to me a little bit like „Jehovas Witnesses“), but I never had a problem to use the Debit MasterCard for renting a car, wether at Sixt in Germany, neither at Hertz in Canada or the US.

But I would never ever open an account at a Sparkasse again. I had three times an account at a Sparkasse (Naspa, BW Bank and KSK BB) and the whole system of these banks seems just like a grumpy old man to me. I have a colleague, who is customer at BW Bank and he wanted to apply for a simple, everyday thing, a „Dispo“. The first step was, he called his account manager. He was told, that he needs an appointment for this. The second step was he went there, to fill out a „Selbstauskunft“. In the next step his account manager called him two days later to tell him, everything is fine and that he needs an appointment again for signing the contract!! So four steps, two steps on side to get just a simple thing as a Dispokredit. WTF?! I could understand this inflexible process, when this wasn’t his main account, but it was.
Personally, my main account is at the GLS Bank and if I want to have a dispo or raise it to a higher lever, I just apply for this in my online banking dashboard. Germany needs more „cool stuff“ like Apple Pay and no Sparkassen-things where you have to attend in person.

 

[Ney]

i have different bank accounts, sparkasse, dkb and n26. n26 is only a "play-around" account, cause with maestro only and mastercard debit cards you can't pay everywhere... so i need a back up girocard. i'm keeping sparkasse till its official if they will do apple pay or not. if yes - i will keep it, for i only pay 6,95€ per month for it (no other fees). i don't think its a bad deal. if no - i probably will close my account and keep dkb and n26.

 

[4254126]

https://www.dsgv.de/de/presse/reden/180222_HBL_Rede_Schleweis.html Speech by the Sparkasse Präsident confirming the mid 2018 timeframe for the adoption of payment via NFC on smartphones... Still no word on exactly if it will be locked down to just the Android Wallet App, or if there will be an adoption of Apple Pay.

Still hopeful and see no reason why the Sparkasse should hold back on that. If Apple agrees on decent terms, then all should be ok.

EDIT: Also interesting is the new Single Sign-In Service called "YES". I found some details here: https://www.it-finanzmagazin.de/yes-sparkasse-identity-checkout-datenschutz-60434/ / Starting in Q1/Q2 of 2018. Also from this summer onwards the online banking platform by the Sparkassen will support multiple bank accounts. And: I also just read that soon the Sparkassen will support Voice Banking via Google Home and any other Google Assistant supported device. As they already support Siri I'm personally quite surprised at the pace of development for last and this year. Certainly a lot going on!
EDIT 2: And I also forgot: From mid 2018 the Sparkassen (every single one in Germany) will add instant payments / bank transfers. That'll be a huge boost for regular transactions!

 

[nordmaler]

i don´t believe that the Sparkassen will be the first ones...therefore it is a good chance that the innovative / more modern banks will launch AP between now and mid 2018 ( Sparkassen Date ).
[doublepost=1519660167][/doublepost]"Insellösung" here it comes ...Speech by the Sparkasse Präsident: "Solche Standards aus der deutschen Kreditwirtschaft heraus sind wichtig, um unsere Kunden nicht internationalen Internetgiganten auszuliefern. Denn diese wollen eigentlich keinen Zahlungsverkehr anbieten, sondern die Zahlungsverkehrsgewohnheiten unserer Kunden ausforschen."

 

[docfred]

Sorry, but he‘s definitely right about the business case of the „new service providers“

Nobody works for free and the customer always pays the bill. Sometimes a transparent fee, sometimes intransparent with his data.

If data security is a „Insellösung“ for you... i‘m sorry

 

[Alanin]

Security is not the „Insellösung“ but something like „the whole world is able to pay via Apple Pay, even in Germany, but only the Germans themselves are not able to, cause of some security issues a few ppl have and dictate that security to all others“

It would be more secure to have German Banks support Apple Pay directly and having my money under the Bankensicherungsfond instead of having to go to foreign banks tbh.

And saying that no other way of paying instead of the existing ones is ok is totally ********. Do you really think the German banks are not analysing your payments and your money flow?! I hope not cause that would be really „blauäugig“

 

[docfred]

There was no word about Apple Pay. And i don’t think, the man meant Apple Pay either. I think the target were services like PayPal & Co.

So stop the immediate „mimimi“ if someone talks about payments and does not mention Apple Pay by name. There is a world beside Apple and 85% of the market does not care about Apple in any way.

 

[Alanin]

Remember of the Schufa, you know that most of the data in their database is provided by the bank telling you that „new service providers“ are just after your data... hahaha
[doublepost=1519667595][/doublepost]

There was no word about Apple Pay. And i don’t think, the man meant Apple Pay either. I think the target were services like PayPal & Co.

So stop the immediate „mimimi“ if someone talks about payments and does not mention Apple Pay by name. There is a world beside Apple and 85% of the market does not care about Apple in any way.

He’s talking of „internationale Internetgiganten“. In my opinion N26 is not meant. And not only PayPal, but also Apple and google...

 

[docfred]

The Schufa knows nothing about what you buy, where you buy, how much money you own, where you are employed and so on.

So don’t mix up topics.

 

[Alanin]

Never said that they know all of this. But they get information your bank collects about you.

And your bank has a lot of information about you and they are using it.

And please don’t go „mimimi“ everytime someone says something negative about the Sparkasse institutions... (to say it in ur words)

The Sparkasse guy said something about standards from German banks. So when thinking globaly the German Standard will be an insellösung and nothing else.

 

[maxOS1104]

And please don’t go „mimimi“ everytime someone says something negative about the Sparkasse institutions... (to say it in ur words)

And please don't go into full hate mode every time someone mentions N26. You prefer Sparkasse and defend them, so it's okay for other people to like N26.

 

[docfred]

The „mimimi“ is about the ongoing whining „buhu, wieder ist Apple Pay nicht erwähnt worden“. It was the same story as Postbank launched their Android Payment solution or Deutsche Bank did the same.

And the „only“ information, that Schufa is told by the banks is, you have an account, you have a credit card, they gave you a credit for your home and so on. Nothing about the information PayPal collects for example.

As I said, don’t mix topics.

 

[zdfbe4ah]

[...] There is ZERO reason, in 2018, to have an account with Sparkasse unless you like giving your money away for free. It is almost the same with Deutsche Bank, except at least Deutsche Bank is more international and you can withdraw money from allover Germany for free.

With my Sparkassen-Card I'm able to withdraw money from all over Germany for free, too.
And if you plan to build or buy a house , good luck getting decent rates with Comdirect, DKB, N26, etc ...

 

[docfred]

And please don't go into full hate mode every time someone mentions N26. You prefer Sparkasse and defend them, so it's okay for other people to like N26.

I don’t start this topic over and over again. The only hate I see in this topic is the ongoing „****** German banks, old Sparkasse“ rants. with sometimes ridiculous arguments that are often just wrong. And I never told someone to change banks or other banks are „bad“ (ok, n26 - reasons are mentioned above, they‘ve prooven that they don’t know what they are doing...). But every two days starts a rant again.

And whenever the rant is over, someone else restarts it. And so on and so on.

If you want it just this way, lamenting the lack of Apple Pay, rename the topic „German whining therapy“.

If you want a discussion about Apple Pay, banks and the backgrounds, accept the facts and discuss them.
-> market share
-> customer acceptance
-> customer whishes
And so on

 

[Alanin]

The „mimimi“ is about the ongoing whining „buhu, wieder ist Apple Pay nicht erwähnt worden“. It was the same story as Postbank launched their Android Payment solution or Deutsche Bank did the same.

And the „only“ information, that Schufa is told by the banks is, you have an account, you have a credit card, they gave you a credit for your home and so on. Nothing about the information PayPal collects for example.

As I said, don’t mix topics.

Just wanted to say that the argument of collecting data is nonsense. PayPal is collecting data about you, so does your bank. PayPal is making money with your data, so does your bank. Maybe the same way PayPal does, but that’s not the point. Both are collecting data and using them to make (more) money.

I was not talking about giving data bout what your are buying at Aldi going to Schufa. But telling Schufa that you have taken credit to buy a house or a car is something really sensible to me. More sensible than telling someone that I am shopping at Aldi or Netto.

And as far as I know using Apple Pay at Aldi, Aldi wouldn’t know who bought what, just knows that it has been payed, no way to connect that data. Every payment would be anonymous to Aldi. The bank would just know that you have paid something using Apple Pay, not knowing who got the money and Apple would not be able to know what you have bought.

Using actual payment methods (not money) Aldi would be able to track your shoppings. Your bank would know how often you shop in which shops and would know how much you pay.

So in my opinion using Apple Pay would be more secure when thinking of data.

And yes this is the Apple Pay thread, so it’s ok to talk about Apple Pay here...
[doublepost=1519670254][/doublepost]

With my Sparkassen-Card I'm able to withdraw money from all over Germany for free, too.
And if you plan to build or buy a house , good luck getting decent rates with Comdirect, DKB, N26, etc ...

Well when I tried to get credit for buying a house at Sparkasse (I were customer there at the time) I got nothing it was worth to think about. Way to expensive when checking with other banks. And the monthly fees are expensive too. Well ok, there are a lot of ATM I can get money from for free and can have a very cool look at their great buildings all over the city. Oh and yeah, doing a lot of sponsoring here.

Well ok that’s nice of them doing sponsoring. But it’s something I have to pay somehow when being a customer...

I got my money way less expensive from another bank and getting more money for my money I deposit at the bank.

Maybe Sparkasse is Great, but that all costs money I don’t wanna pay. And for my usecase going with Sparkasse is more expensive that going with other banks...

 

[docfred]

And as I said, I don’t think, he meant Apple Pay as a service, as DSGV was the first German bank union that signalized interest in Apple Pay and the wish to support it.

And realize that the world does not turn around Apple and Apple Pay. Not every speech in the banking business is related to Apple Pay. This service is not even close to be so important as some might think. Especially with this low market share.

So don‘t link every app, every speech and every launched service to Apple Pay. Outside of the Apple Forums no one cares about it anyway.

 

[Alanin]

And as I said, I don’t think, he meant Apple Pay as a service, as DSGV was the first German bank union that signalized interest in Apple Pay and the wish to support it.

And realize that the world does not turn around Apple and Apple Pay. Not every speech in the banking business is related to Apple Pay. This service is not even close to be so important as some might think. Especially with this low market share.

So don‘t link every app, every speech and every launched service to Apple Pay. Outside of the Apple Forums no one cares about it anyway.

Well I am totally with you, not every speech or press release or something else need to be connected to Apple Pay. But when an official of Sparkasse is saying that they prefer standards made by German banks more than solutions „internationale internetgiganten“ have, it’s something that can be connected to Apple Pay...

 

[docfred]

As the bank market and the bank services are being standardized by the EU and everyone has to work the same way, with the same APIs and the same information transfer (see PSD2 i.e.), there are no „german standards“ left.

There are two hearts within me at this point. On the one hand, it‘s easier for newcomers to get services up and running, as there are standards they can adept fast and they don’t have to negotiate with every other bank one by one.

On the other hand, the german bank market was (in comparison) rock stable, the money and the data secure and the standards high. Much higher as in most other markets. Because of german standards. The bank crisis only hit those banks that meant to gamble offshore in markets with much lower regulations.

Apple Pay for itself... i don’t think, it’s about data being shared. This is covered by PSD2. I think it was about the costs. The fees are now limited to 0.3% of the total amount. That‘s the rate that Apple wants for themselves in the US, if I remember correctly.

 

[Rigby]

Sorry, but he‘s definitely right about the business case of the „new service providers“

Nobody works for free and the customer always pays the bill. Sometimes a transparent fee, sometimes intransparent with his data.

Well, at least here in the US the banks are no better than the new fintech companies. They are at the forefront of datamining their customer's transaction data. Some banks even go so far as to insert targeted ads when you look at your transactions on their web page (e.g. Bank of America). Not sure if Germany has stricter privacy regulations for banks, but you can bet that they are after all this data just as much as Google et al.

Anyway, I you believe Apple's privacy policy, they do not record Apple Pay in-store transactions (they do see in-app transactions though).

 

[Tobsen]

https://www.wirecard.com/newsroom/p...e-to-launch-mobile-payment-app-allianz-prime/

Hopefully no mockup screenshot …

 

[Schwabe85]

I think it's a mockup. There is no home button.

 

[docfred]

Well, at least here in the US the banks are no better than the new fintech companies. They are at the forefront of datamining their customer's transaction data. Some banks even go so far as to insert targeted ads when you look at your transactions on their web page (e.g. Bank of America). Not sure if Germany has stricter privacy regulations for banks, but you can bet that they are after all this data just as much as Google et al.

Anyway, I you believe Apple's privacy policy, they do not record Apple Pay in-store transactions (they do see in-app transactions though).

US data security laws are ... "different"

And again: I never said anything about Apple Pay has data security flaws. (as long as it works how Apple describes it) Neither did the spokesman.

About Google on the other hand, I would be worried. They are scanning our whole life. Our internet searchs, our emails ... in the future our financial transactions? They know us better, than we do. That's a problem, because there is nothing left of "don't be evil". Their behaviour against Symantec shows, that they don't have any scruple to smash an opponent by sheer market power, if they want to.

https://www.wirecard.com/newsroom/p...e-to-launch-mobile-payment-app-allianz-prime/

Hopefully no mockup screenshot …

Just a mockup, as @Schwabe85 said.

And more important. Allianz Prime is a competitor for Apple Pay. If i read the press release correctly, it's an own app. On Android.

 

[4254126]

And more important. Allianz Prime is a competitor for Apple Pay. If i read the press release correctly, it's an own app. On Android.

Nope It's also available on iOS. Allianz Prime will have to work with Apple Pay in this case (which is interesting, as Allianz is a large German insurance / finance firm).

It basically is nothing more than an extended model of boon, with added insurance, analysis and voucher system included.

https://www.it-finanzmagazin.de/all...einsamer-payment-app-mit-treueprogramm-66579/
See the link above for a screenshot of the iOS app version.