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MLVC

macrumors demi-god
Apr 30, 2015
1,603
3,745
Maastricht, The Netherlands
Strange. If you read Apple Pay threads in Germany all are complaining, creditcards are used eeeeeevrywhere and just Germans are „dumb“ and banks are old and cc are standard all over the world and so on ... ;)

scnr

It's a Maestro country here, we use debit cards. Of course there are tons of places that do accept credit cards, restaurants, shops, just not your every day groceries etc. I'm not going through lengths to use Boon for things that I don't buy every day.
 
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Karma_isA_8itch

macrumors 6502
Jan 31, 2018
308
305
It's a Maestro country here, we use debit cards. Of course there are tons of places that do accept credit cards, restaurants, shops, just not your every day groceries etc. I'm not going through lengths to use Boon for things that I don't buy every day.

Well m experience is that wherever you can pay with maestro you can pay with MasterCard as well and vice versa. If you can pay with MasterCard you cannot always pay with maestro. I travel a lot and I’m coming around quite a bit and it is very rare that I ever encounter a situation where I cannot pay with my MasterCard. Maestro happens more often but still I do not feel restricted using MasterCard or maestro at all. And I ONLY use MasterCard and maestro. I can really not understand those complaints about credit cards not being accepted.
 

pnhawaii

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2018
4
1
I didn’t see the link to the new thread, at first....so here it goes again:
I just set up my Apple Watch and was prompted with this image on my iPhone.
I couldn’t add any German cards (obviously) but my U.S. MasterCard was accepted.
My region is set to Germany, even though I changed it to United States for an hour, about two weeks ago.
It probably doesn’t mean anything but who knows.
 

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docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
936
572
Germany
Did you setup Apple Pay, as you switched to US settings?

I think, your Apple ID or iPhone just „remembered“ that you‘re from the US
 

MrJvG

macrumors member
Jun 8, 2009
71
56
Netherlands
Well m experience is that wherever you can pay with maestro you can pay with MasterCard as well and vice versa.

No you can’t.
You can literately pay everywhere with your Maestro card, in the Neterlands. Everything you want to pay, is possible with a Maestrocard. Of all the stores that are acceptting Maestro, my guess is 9 out of 10 don’t accept Mastercard.
Exception are city’s like Amsterdam, because of the tourist, airports, restaurants, gas stations.
The Netherlands is like Germany a Maestro debit card country. All the bank use the Maestro cards/paying network.
 
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4254126

Cancelled
Original poster
Jun 20, 2017
828
855
It's always worth checking this site to see if you can pay with Apple Pay where you are: https://www.apfel.cash/umkreissuche/

As I've stated before, I never used my UK accounts to pay here so I wasn't aware of how widespread Apple Pay is useable in Germany. Since setting up a boon card, I only used my card once (filling up at Jet - their terminals must have been at least 10 years old - they looked it!) in the last 2,5 weeks. Shopping at Aldi, Rewe, Kaufland, DM Markt and the local organic/health shop all worked with Apple Pay, as did my visit to a local pizzeria this evening. Yesterday I was out and about in town, my hairdresser just takes cash but even the local bookshop (Osiander) took NFC payment / Apple Pay. The cashier was really intrigued and asked me all about how I to get it working!

So all I can say is, there doesn't seem to be any reason not to introduce Apple Pay due to a lack of use cases with merchants / shops / restaurants. I think I can keep up paying for at least 95% of my purchases with Apple Pay here. I also recently installed Stocard and scanned my library card. That worked as well, so getting rid of my wallet is slowly but surely becoming a realistic possibility.
 
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docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
936
572
Germany
I hope nobody thought, there are technical issues, old infrastructure or something related, that prevents Apple Pay from starting. It will be just a question of contracts and the split of the low fees for electronic payment.
 

Alanin

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2018
411
258
Nordhausen
Don't think ppl really think its technical issues preventing stehe release of AP. And if there were technical problems, I don't think it would have taken several years to solve them...

its all about the money... nothing else... well maybe its all about the data aswell - but even that transfers into money...
 

Mr-Fly

macrumors 6502
Jan 30, 2018
396
230
Frankfurt, Germany
I hope nobody thought, there are technical issues, old infrastructure or something related, that prevents Apple Pay from starting. It will be just a question of contracts and the split of the low fees for electronic payment.

I do believe that it is sometimes, that the people really think, that because apple Pay is not available in germany, it is not usable. Thats why a lot of people always ask: "But I would not be able to use it?" or "What should I do with ApplePay if nobody takes it?".
Very funny, and the same yesterday on Appgefahren, although they gave really dangerous tipps like "Take a irish address for the registration at boon" which is a real risky task and not needed at all, as boon accepts the real address and country germany for the data used in boon. Not well done from appgefahren this time.
 

docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
936
572
Germany
That worked as well, so getting rid of my wallet is slowly but surely becoming a realistic possibility.
What do you do with your driving license? id card, etc.?

Not even in the US, people go outside without their wallet (or something similar) because they won't get a single light-beer without one document to show. not even if they look like their 40 and above :D

I don't think, leaving your wallet for every day use is a scenario for the near future (<10 years) anywhere in the world.
 

4254126

Cancelled
Original poster
Jun 20, 2017
828
855
I hope nobody thought, there are technical issues, old infrastructure or something related, that prevents Apple Pay from starting. It will be just a question of contracts and the split of the low fees for electronic payment.

Not true.

See, for Apple several factors are important. Firstly, on the side of the banks the tokenisation needs to be implemented for the system to actually work at all. Apparently, only a few German banks have actually done their homework on that side of things. If all the information I read on the matter is correct, then that also supposedly includes the Sparkassen.
Secondly there needs to be a merchant network. Part of the roll-out of Apple Pay in the US originally consisted of close relationships with brands such as McDonalds, Subways, Wholefoods (a little joke on stage), etc. There is no point having Apple Pay if there are no places to use it. The UK already had an extensive contactless infrastructure and the Oyster card system by TfL (Transport for London) was also (luckily for Apple, it was a coincidence and not something Apple actively did!) compatible with NFC cards. That made it a logical second step for Apple, as hardly any work was needed on that side of things. I'm sure the British banks were also more flexible in their approach to implementing Apple Pay.

Look at Germany 2-3 years ago: There was hardly any NFC infrastructure. The banks were still playing around with the idiotic "girogo kontaktlos" and that mainly worked in stadiums and concert halls. Since Lidl, Aldi, Rewe, Kaufland and the other big chains updated their terminals on a large scale and included Girocard kontaktlos, NFC terminals have really spread to most shops I go to now... Non-NFC Terminals are now the exception. Contactless cards are now the norm. Hardly any banks don't offer contactless cards which helps with market penetration.

There are three/four big factors that are all needed for Apple Pay:
-> Banks as partners (and a cut of the fee)
-> Processing data (tokenisation, PSD2)
-> Retail / Merchants (done! see above)
-> Technology backend (MC/Visa done, own payment engine for Girocard kontaktlos finished?, also tokenisation)

Germany has most of these factors sorted. So as we can all see / keep reading, the only thing that is holding Apple Pay back is an agreement between banks and possibly a strategic decision for Apple on when (if?) to launch. I'm sure it's down to them waiting for a big large bank to either join or finish the technical aspect. They learnt the hard way in several countries that if you launch with a couple of small banks, then Apple Pay suffers from a lack of further expansion. But we've discussed those matters enough in the last weeks ;)
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What do you do with your driving license? id card, etc.?

Not even in the US, people go outside without their wallet (or something similar) because they won't get a single light-beer without one document to show. not even if they look like their 40 and above :D

I don't think, leaving your wallet for every day use is a scenario for the near future (<10 years) anywhere in the world.
Sorry, also not true!

Poland is rolling out mobile digital ID cards, driving licences and other official documentation this year. I tried to find the original source (a large newspaper article), but on the fly just found this one via Google: http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-...o-carry-on-mobile-phones-in-2018-4099555.html

Apparently Estonia also has a similar system in place (or at least in the works). And you can get a little case for your phone, id card / drivers licence and giro-/credit card all-in-one.

It's not possible now, but to say it won't happen within the next 10 years is quite a risk ;) The iPhone only came out around 10 years ago, slow mobile data networks etc. I think the pace of development is going to surprise many and is something that we can't yet foresee!
 
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docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
936
572
Germany
Secondly there needs to be a merchant network. Part of the roll-out of Apple Pay in the US originally consisted of close relationships with brands such as McDonalds, Subways, Wholefoods (a little joke on stage), etc. There is no point having Apple Pay if there are no places to use it.
Apple Pay was a big deal in the US because the payment terminals in die US often were old and sometimes even offline a few years back. In some areas and shops they even still used carbon copy machines for credit card payments...

The german infrastructure was (partly) online since the early 90s, the shops just hat to switch to NFC-capable terminals without touching anything else. And rollout happend in 2015/2016, often within regular leasing contract renewals.

The "pressure" for the banks and merchants is not as high as in the US when Apple Pay started the roll out. German shops had the guaranty of payment since the 90s, if they wanted and accepted the slightly higher fee for the transaction.

Look at Germany 2-3 years ago: There was hardly any NFC infrastructure.
So it was in the US. The NFC infrastructure was rolled out with Apple Pay as the flagship product.


So, let's wait what Apple decides to do. Cutting back their profit expectations or do they leave the german and dutch market on their own? Android has no problem like this, because at this OS the app Developers can use NFC on their own.


btw: does Apple Want 0,xx% of the sales volume or 0,xx% of the transaction fees? Does anybody know?
 

PR1985

macrumors 6502a
Jun 16, 2016
893
241
Germany
FYI: I recieved a survey from Paypal today, about electronic payments in general. Which brands and services do you know and/ or (would) use, how often etc. Guess what, Apple Pay was one service.
When I reached 90% they were interested in my earnings. I closed the window. Sorry Paypal.
 

kkrdvc

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2018
329
247
One of the largest French banks, Société Générale, has launched Apple Pay last week and what’s special about their launch is that, unlike other other French banks, they have started Apple Pay with support for the French national payment network CB Cartes Bancaires. Of course, because of this the customers are not able to use Apple Pay online or outside of France, but the bank has told that this feature will be coming this summer for Visa cards, which leads me to believe the support for co-badging on contactless Apple Pay is finally coming and that this is what German banks are waiting for because even though the support for girocard kontaktlos is growing, majority of contactless terminals only support contactless payments through the Visa/VPay/Master/Maestro networks. And of course, it will be much better for the German banks if they can market Apple Pay as an international solution or whatever.
 

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docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
936
572
Germany
majority of contactless terminals only support contactless payments through the Visa/VPay/Master/Maestro networks.
Are you sure? That doesn't match my experiences. I only know two shops in this region, where I can not pay with my girocard wireless but have to pay with my MasterCard wireless. Obi and a regional bakery. Every other point of sale accepts the girocard for contactless payment.
 

kkrdvc

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2018
329
247
Are you sure? That doesn't match my experiences. I only know two shops in this region, where I can not pay with my girocard wireless but have to pay with my MasterCard wireless. Obi and a regional bakery. Every other point of sale accepts the girocard for contactless payment.
I know for a fact that tegut and Müller don’t support girocard kontaktlos. When you try waving them the terminal just says “Bitte Karte einführen”.
 

docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
936
572
Germany
I know for a fact that tegut and Müller don’t support girocard kontaktlos. When you try waving them the terminal just says “Bitte Karte einführen”.
Hmmm have to try Müller the next days, but I‘m pretty sure i paid wireless with my Girocard at tegut in Erlangen a few weeks earlier....
(But I would not bet on it ;))
 

cieoqn

Suspended
Feb 2, 2018
14
8
Deutsche Bank advertises Mobile Payment with its app. It also says Mobile Payment with iOS isn't available, because Apple hasn't approved yet.

That isn't any news, however, it is interesting to see two boxes, one for Android and one for iOS. It seems like Deutsche Bank wants to tick the other box, too.

https://www.deutsche-bank.de/pfb/content/pk-lp-mobile-app-2.html
 

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Alanin

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2018
411
258
Nordhausen
Tbh I don’t think this is a sign for AP, it’s more a sign against AP.

If AP is around the corner they would have waited with the release of their android app and would do the marketing together for both platforms. This way it’s the same topic but they have to do the marketing twice.

Another point is that they do fingerpointing on Apple. Not saying that mobile paying will be available soon (which would kinda refer to AP). They state that it’s not available on iOS cause of Apple not letting them use nfc...

This all is more a sign against AP with Deutsche Bank in the near future.
 
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