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tylersdad

macrumors regular
Jul 26, 2010
200
520
This is ridiculous. The vaping products that are causing problems are vape cartridges. They've pulled the apps for several dry herb vaping devices. These devices take dry cannabis and heat it so that it produces vapor, not smoke.

Since these apps are missing, these $300+ devices are worthless. For instance, the Firefly app was one of the apps that were pulled. The Firefly has no user interface on the devices. It's controlled 100% by the app. These can no longer be used. By the way, the Firefly was developed by a couple of ex Apple execs.
 

gsurf123

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2017
470
846
I understand why they did this. The government is going after vaping. It starts by getting the government’s science arm to make up lies about vaping. Then they seize the money of vaping businesses. Once this happens anyone associated with vaping can be held liable and have their assets seized by the state or private citizens in ridiculous civil lawsuits. So Apple decided to limit their liability.



Porn is a huge epidemic destroying lives. It is funny how the government doesn’t do anything at all to stop it. It is freely available to not just minors but the very young. So it isn’t like the government really wants to protect citizens, especially the very young.


Alcohol is doing, has done, and will continue to do more damage to families and friends than smoking, vaping or porn. Drunk drivers kills 29 innocent people per day. If you want to save people start with booze. I am not for restricting anything (at some point they will go after something you like doing), but you can't pull a holier than though and overlook the worst substance for everyone.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,394
14,273
Scotland
Everybody needs to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. We don't know why those with lung damage have fallen ill, and it might not have anything to do with nicotine-based vaping. It is possible vaping reduces harm in comparison to smoking. What needs to happen now is proper clinical trials that address the safety of vaping products, their potential for creating addiction among previous non-smokers (especially adolescents), and their ability to reduce harm when substituted for smoking. The FDA really dropped the ball on this, and it might be that vaping products should be prescription-only for confirmed existing smokers, and tamper-proof so that only approved cartridges (again, on prescription) can be used. Also, it would be nice if the e-cigarettes created some form of tamper-proof record of what was smoked to provide data for epidemiological studies. These devices were sold essentially as lifestyle machines, but they really should be treated as what they are: medical drug-delivery systems.

However, simply banning e-cigarettes, rather than trying to ascertain if they can be made to be safe and beneficial overall, only benefits big tobacco and might actually harm smokers.
 

Lounge vibes 05

macrumors 68040
May 30, 2016
3,591
10,531
Are alcohol or tobacco related apps allowed?

I love the concept of banning vaping, while leaving cigarettes available for consumption.
Someone already posted that section of the Apple guidelines, and no
1.4.3 Apps that Encourage consumption of tobacco and vape products, illegal drugs, or excessive amounts of alcohol are not permitted on the App Store. Apps that encourage minors to consume any of these substances will be rejected. Facilitating the sale of marijuana, tobacco, or controlled substances (except for licensed pharmacies) isn’t allowed.
  • 1.4.4 Apps may only display DUI checkpoints that are published by law enforcement agencies, and should never encourage drunk driving or other reckless behavior such as excessive speed.
 

jarman92

macrumors 65816
Nov 13, 2014
1,479
4,590
Forgive the nitpicking, but yes, it is. Nicotine is a drug.

Edit: This isn't advocacy for Apple's decision to ban the apps; I think that's silly (and I also think vaping is silly) and likely to have about zero impact. And if it does happen to reduce vaping use, that's probably bad for public health, because vaping looks so far to be less harmful than cigarette smoking. When vaping products are banned (not by Apple; I'm talking governments here), cigarette usage is likely to go up.

My unsolicited advice: Don't smoke. Don't vape. But if you must do one of the two, vape instead of smoke. And use legal vaping products, provided they still exist.

All else being equal, vaping is probably less harmful than smoking. But the issue is that vaping has exploded among young people who would otherwise not smoke. Last year was the first in decades where nicotine use actually INcreased. These apps are obviously meant to appeal to a younger clientele, so Apple is pulling them. And rightfully so.
 
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Reactions: iOS Geek

Lounge vibes 05

macrumors 68040
May 30, 2016
3,591
10,531
If Apple wants to do something innovative to stop people from dying design iOS NOT to show an onscreen keyboard when a device is within 4 feet of a steering wheel of a moving car. That would save thousands of teen lives a year. Now that we have NFC tech in an iPhone, car manufacturers need to place a chip in the steering wheel that will disable texting for all moving vehicle drivers.
Good idea. The problem is, passengers are within 4 feet of the steering wheel. If I'm on on a long car ride, I need my phone. Coming from a person who will never be able to drive.
Also, everyone I know turned off Do Not Disturb while driving because of this exact issue. The phone thinks you're driving, when you are really just in the back seat. Or on the bus.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,183
31,244
So is Apple going to remove apps about alcohol? Or what about cars? How many people die each year from car accidents? The country also has an obesity and diabetes problem. Is Apple going to limit food apps to only those that promote healthy eating?

THIS IS SO STUPID!
 

ArtOfWarfare

macrumors G3
Nov 26, 2007
9,565
6,069
Daddy Apple

uwu Daddy Apple uwu

Anyways... this seemed like a reasonable move to me while the vaping deaths were of unknown cause. Now that it's been traced down to an improper ingredient being added to black market vape products, it seems to me that vaping should be moved back into the regulated and limited to people 21 and over category, not the banned entirely category.
 

iOS Geek

macrumors 68000
Nov 7, 2017
1,629
3,380
All else being equal, vaping is probably less harmful than smoking. But the issue is that vaping has exploded among young people who would otherwise not smoke. Last year was the first in decades where nicotine use actually INcreased. These apps are obviously meant to appeal to a younger clientele, so Apple is pulling them. And rightfully so.
Going off of your comment of it "probably" being less harmful than smoking. I'm going to offer my take on why I think people in general are coming down so much harder on vaping. I work in a hospital. We've had plenty of people come in for vaping related issues. Some have admitted to using the THC cartridges. Some have said they never used a THC cartridge. The one thing all of these cases (in our own experience) have in common is that the illnesses related to vaping...are showing up faster. We know tobacco makes you sick. It's a fact and no one disputes it. But on average, it takes a loooooong time. We have countless people coming in who have said they've only been vaping for (at the longest) just a few years.

We aren't ignoring the fact that cigarettes are bad for you. But what's alarming is that on average, those who get sick from vaping...are getting sick FASTER. Also worth noting (I don't know what came of this claim), but there were some cases of the illness related to THC cartridges...but those cartridges came from a dispensary in a state where it's legal to buy them, which means black market shouldn't have been a factor. It was in Oregon, I believe. I may be wrong on that part.
 
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1146331

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2018
258
551
Right, because adults need not only the government to tell them how to live their lives, but now they need hippocritical virtue signaling corporations to tell them how to live their life and what is good or bad for them.
[automerge]1573829506[/automerge]
Apple is concerned about your lungs. But Chinese nationals persecuted by their government? Not so much. I can't take any of their virtue signalling seriously. But it must work on some people.
Most of the MacRumors people that blindly defend Apple apparently, we seem to be the exception.
 

ElectricPotato

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2018
756
2,076
Seattle
It starts by getting the government’s science arm to make up lies about vaping.

When this latest hysteria started the US Feds *started* with a warning about THC. Nothing torches credibility like trotting out nonsensical Reefer Madness for every bad thing that happens in the world.
 
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Reactions: decypher44

Zmmyt

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2005
1,723
774
good move, I guess...maybe also get rid of Mickey D, KFC, etc. last time I checked the news obesity and diabetes is a major health concern, so is animal welfare...and not to forget about coca-cola and nestle, because of their business practices i.e. depriving certain parts of the world of their drinking water...and so on
 

1146331

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2018
258
551
This is ridiculous. The vaping products that are causing problems are vape cartridges. They've pulled the apps for several dry herb vaping devices. These devices take dry cannabis and heat it so that it produces vapor, not smoke.

Since these apps are missing, these $300+ devices are worthless. For instance, the Firefly app was one of the apps that were pulled. The Firefly has no user interface on the devices. It's controlled 100% by the app. These can no longer be used. By the way, the Firefly was developed by a couple of ex Apple execs.
Seems like lots of vaping users should start a class action lawsuit against Apple.
They need to either allow sideloading of Applications or they need to keep Apps that are paired with devices that require them to function on the store. Otherwise Apple did cause monetary loss for their own "feel good" social justice warrior virtual signaling [people oppressed by governments excluded].
 

decypher44

macrumors 68000
Feb 24, 2007
1,791
2,934
Orange County, CA
The CDC has determined that the vapes causing the "vaping illness" are THC ones bought off the streets that also contain vitamin E acetate. Vitamin E acetate is extremely toxic when inhaled.

Legitimate nicotine vape companies should not be punished because of this underground activity. Nicotine vaping has safely been around for almost 15 years now. Only now, when these THC vapes hit the streets, do we have this problem.

But, of course, Apple isn't going to factor that into its thinking. It's just gonna take the "ban everything" PC approach that is prevalent in today's "let's not think too hard about it" society.
A million times THIS^^^

The illness is from illicit THC carts, not legit nicotine or legit TCH or CBD carts. I can’t believe there are still people that don’t know this.
 

Marx55

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2005
1,918
754
How some human beings kill themselves consuming legal or illegal drugs is beyond understanding. Drugs - your’e as safe as you wanna be! Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein.
 

tylersdad

macrumors regular
Jul 26, 2010
200
520
Going off of your comment of it "probably" being less harmful than smoking. I'm going to offer my take on why I think people in general are coming down so much harder on vaping. I work in a hospital. We've had plenty of people come in for vaping related issues. Some have admitted to using the THC cartridges. Some have said they never used a THC cartridge. The one thing all of these cases (in our own experience) have in common is that the illnesses related to vaping...are showing up faster. We know tobacco makes you sick. It's a fact and no one disputes it. But on average, it takes a loooooong time. We have countless people coming in who have said they've only been vaping for (at the longest) just a few years.

We aren't ignoring the fact that cigarettes are bad for you. But what's alarming is that on average, those who get sick from vaping...are getting sick FASTER. Also worth noting (I don't know what came of this claim), but there were some cases of the illness related to THC cartridges...but those cartridges came from a dispensary in a state where it's legal to buy them, which means black market shouldn't have been a factor. It was in Oregon, I believe. I may be wrong on that part.

We now know what is causing the problem: Vitamin E acetate. Any product without it won't cause the acute issues that have been seen. Especially natural, dry herb. And this ban affects dry herb products as well as the harmful Vitamin E acetate products.

It is an overreaction to a problem they don't seem to fully grasp.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,918
25,869
Apple knows what is best for me. Thank you father Apple.

I am tired of living in a nanny state. I miss the days when Apple had a CEO that didn't care to make political statements.

The good news is that you have the power to do something about that horrible situation.

Simply commit to purchasing tech products from companies that don't engage in what you find so egregious. If I were to find myself in similar shoes, I'd be embarrassed if I were not able to muster the will to do so.
 

decypher44

macrumors 68000
Feb 24, 2007
1,791
2,934
Orange County, CA
Going off of your comment of it "probably" being less harmful than smoking. I'm going to offer my take on why I think people in general are coming down so much harder on vaping. I work in a hospital. We've had plenty of people come in for vaping related issues. Some have admitted to using the THC cartridges. Some have said they never used a THC cartridge. The one thing all of these cases (in our own experience) have in common is that the illnesses related to vaping...are showing up faster. We know tobacco makes you sick. It's a fact and no one disputes it. But on average, it takes a loooooong time. We have countless people coming in who have said they've only been vaping for (at the longest) just a few years.

We aren't ignoring the fact that cigarettes are bad for you. But what's alarming is that on average, those who get sick from vaping...are getting sick FASTER. Also worth noting (I don't know what came of this claim), but there were some cases of the illness related to THC cartridges...but those cartridges came from a dispensary in a state where it's legal to buy them, which means black market shouldn't have been a factor. It was in Oregon, I believe. I may be wrong on that part.
You do realize the small amount (~9%) of people denying using illicit THC carts are lying, right? As in, the CDC and FDA have gone back to those and some have admitted afterward that they lied, and used THC carts bought “off the street”.
 
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