Nobody said minimum wage laws were being broken. Doesn’t change the fact that is takes X dollars for shelter and food and if the employer isn’t covering it then the tax payer will.
I don’t know. Seems like you’re just point at “welfare queens” now.
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Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize
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Ok, and how to you plan to enforce that on the rest of the planet? Especially on a country like China who is more than happy to have us expoit their lower class whist stealing all of our IP?
The Chinese communist party is more than happy to let other countries piss through their population in return for free stuff.
I said no such thing. I'm just pointing out a possibility to you.
Hypothetically speaking, if people do take advantage of things like that, as a tax payer are you incensed at all the entitlements?
What are you on about? Who said anything about enforcing anything on other countries?
We have a progressive tax in place... Do you know what progressive tax means?
You can't lose money to taxes by making more income... Please tell me you understand this?
What's not to understand? It's on the chart.
Do you understand that the hypothetical worker vipergts2207 wrote about would spend a lot more of his/her time working and lose out on entitlements the more he/she works? Plus, he/she would have to give back a portion of the pay in taxes.
By working less, they don't have to pay tax and get free stuff.
My god man, you said:
When I asked how do you plan to balance the union increased compensation of US workers against the cheap labor in other countries you replied with the above. My next question was how do you plan to get foreign labor the same protections of the American worker which would then balance the labor cost scales?
Without this balance jobs will continue to be moved overseas. Other ways to balance that would be a trade tariff that would balance out wage costs.
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Okay don't mean to quiz you here, but I think this is the fastest way to ensure we are on the same page.
According to this chart, how much does a person with taxable income of...
1) $10,000 gross
2) $20,000 gross
Pay in taxes?
It is not America's job to get foreign workers' protections; that's for their own government to figure out. If China deems it okay to have their workers exploited, that doesn't mean America has to follow China's lead.
But anyway, you're talking about two different things here...
One is the cost of labor, and the other is the ability of American corporations to source labor outside the USA without any penalty. Corporations lobby our government for exactly this reason... If they cannot exploit American workers, they will exploit workers of a government that deems it okay to do so.
Bolded phrase above is what needs to be addressed to keep jobs in the USA. However, that also means companies will either make less of a profit or the prices of goods manufactured in the USA will rise.
There is no free lunch... We enjoy low prices on Nike sneakers, iPhones, TVs etc because someone is working under terrible conditions to manufacture these things, and that person's government thinks it's okay to sell their workforce to the highest global bidder.
Well it’s going to be one or the other unless you’d rather pretend to live in a fantasy world where neither the employer nor tax payers have to ensure low wage workers have enough money to afford rent, transportation, and food.
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You didn’t say “welfare queen” but whether you realize it or not, that’s exactly what you were describing.
If someone is putting in their 40 hours per week and still needs tax payer assistance, I am indeed incensed by that. Not by the receipt of the government assistance, but by the fact that our government allows corporations to pay CEOs tens of millions of dollars while simultaneously allowing bottom tier wages to be so low that employees qualify for the assistance.
I'm pretty sure @pastrychef doesn't even understand how our tax system works. He/She seems to be under the impression you can game the IRS by engineering your income to fall into a tax bracket ... lol
Ok so what exactly are you asking for?
My example of a gas station attendant in New Jersey, exactly how much should a person pumping gas for a living make?
How much exactly should a checkout person at Walmart make?
Should both get full boat healthcare? 4 weeks vacation? All this for the lowest skill jobs available?
Lay it out, exactly what the minimum compensation should be so that we don't have any issues and don't need unions.
Does this apply to all employers or only mega-corps?
You're asking the wrong questions mate.
What problem do you think needs to be solved, let's start with that. We have a free market for labor, but sometimes free markets need intervention from time to time in the form of federal regulations.
Hence minimum wage, worker comp benefits etc.
So... Everyone is entitled to the same standard deduction regardless of how much or how little you make. The chart shows that this standard deduction is $12950 for 2022.
Then, the guy making $10,000 pays the 10% rate and the guy making $20,000 falls in to the 12% rate...
$10,000 minus the standard deduction and he/she won't have to pay any federal income tax.
$20,000 minus the standard deduction and $950 of that $20,000 is taxable at the 12% rate.
I don't know the thresholds off hand but stay within certain thresholds and you would qualify for all sorts of things like Obamacare, Food Stamps, low income housing, etc etc.
Again, I'm not trying to get in to arguments with you guys and I didn't call anyone a "welfare queen". I'm merely pointing out a possibility to you guys.
Wow.
It's good to see you have such an open mind.
I'm done. I have no interest in any further exchanges with you.
I said the $10,000 and $20,000 is taxable income, as in... deductions have already been accounted for.
Anyone who understands our tax system should understand that our tax brackets are ALWAYS normalized for taxable income, care to try again?
Lol vacation? We’re so far from that for the low wage workers it’s not even funny. Should probably focus on meeting essential needs first, though I’m sure they love to be allowed to take a few days off per year with repercussions. How about they get paid enough to afford to share a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, groceries for themselves, and transportation to even get to a job in the first place. Though I’m sure you’d be satisfied with something like the Chinese model for these people where they live in factory dormitories, alleviating even the need for transportation, while they’re paid barely enough to afford three square meals. Remind me, is it socialism we’re all supposed to fear or is it actually unfettered capitalism?
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Bro you don't even understand what the tax brackets mean and you're out here talking like an expert.
Please try and answer the question again.
I'm not wasting time with you two. Adding both to ignore list.
Provide one mathematical scenario where a person takes home less money from taxes by making more gross income... I'll wait.
It's okay to admit you don't know things... You're in good company, most Americans are tax illiterate. You don't know what progressive tax means, it's evident from your posts. Yet you keep doubling down with your head in the sand.
If you take anything away from this conversation... You cannot be worse off due to taxes by making more money. It's mathematically impossible with our tax system.
I'll leave you to actually google what progressive tax means.
I can't tell what you would want. (As if it mattered. Neither one of us ahve any control or influence on the race to the bottom)
American laborers should not have to compete with what are basically slaves in a foreign (communist hell hole) country.
Yes, Americans will lose if it is all based on labor costs. LOSE LOSE LOSE... So what do the investor class have in store for a New American Future? It seems obvious, doesn't it? The investor class seems to be seeking an America where people are economic slaves (again) and are company property to be heavily indebted to the corporation (company store, company barracks) with no chance for advancement or changing jobs, until said corporation is done with them and tosses them away (with their debts outstanding).
The investor class seems to be seeking a New American Aristocracy. The New Robber Barons superseding American Democracy, complete with ownership of Congress, the courts, and local governments. It would appear that little stands in their way of winning it all except for workers plucky enough to demand respect, demand a living wage, demand LIVES.
And the metastasis of the American Investor Class is infecting other countries too. The investor class is wagging the uneducated voter like the tail on a dog, sweeping everything off the counter, and they have infected both parties.
And part of that metastasis is the war on the EU. The investor class HATES the EU. Why? The EU stands up to the investor class and dares to dictate things that rile them up. The EU banned Teflon, but in America, you can get it in toilet bowl cleaner, lip stick, and even wall paint, among other uses. The EU had started looking at established chemicals for their toxicity (did you know most of what you come into contact on a daily basis has never been tested for toxicity?) and the hue and cry of the investor class has largely stalled it.
And the investor class's lust for more money has caused them to make a long history of reckless decisions all to retain their money and power.
But yes, it seems that things have to swing on the pendulum of history back to the days of 'wine and roses' for that New American Aristocracy, until the workers unite and shake it all up, again..
Exactly. So why are you against Unions? Unions are one of the reasons the American workforce has protections that it has today.
Why are Unions taking the blame for what is essentially globalization of the workforce? Unless you think American workers should work under the same unfavorable conditions that workers in certain parts of the world work under?
I'm not understanding what you want from American workers? Do you want workers to agree to be exploited so that maybe, just maybe, their jobs won't be shipped overseas? Why are you placing the blame on Unions?
