To all of those who act like this is a disgrace, you know back when we had more unions in the US we also had a lot less income inequality and fewer people living in poverty.
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Apple Store in Oklahoma City Becomes Second in U.S. to Unionize
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This is comical on a couple of levels:
Calling 32 people "lemmings" who:
- Chose to be recognized as individuals.
- Chose to represent and bargain for themselves and not be subject to the collective process.
- Chose to be recognized for personal performance instead of seniority.
- Chose not to pay a percentage of their hard earned wages to union bosses and their political leanings.
Urban Dictionary: lemming
A member of a crowd with no originality or voice of his own. One who speaks or repeats only what he has been told. A tool. A cretin.
It would be more accurate to characterize the 56 who voted in favor of unionizing as "lemmings".
Secondly, stop virtue signalling. If you want to stand on your high horse and speak of human rights then you should abandon all tech made in China. Be brave and vote with your dollars. Speaking of the working conditions of Apple's retail employees and Human Rights in the same sentence is silly.
You mean the Apple store union employees who sell and promote products made by slave labor in China with elements mined by children in the Congo?
Or are the human rights all about pampered, first world retail employees who can simply move to another job if they’re not happy?
Unionizing these stores is an ironic joke…
Employees who are treated fairly and properly compensated do NOT join unions.
Companies that are facing unionization in their organizations should take a good look at themselves and how they treat their employees.
I am in a unionized position. For the most part, I am pleased with the representation I get from my union. I'm not one of those "problem employees" that has the union save my ares while others do more work. I've never needed them for that.
I have been wrongfully accused of misconduct, and the union was there on my behalf to prevent me from being steamrolled by management. Every organization has tyrants in it, mine included. Personalities clash, and people use their power for personal revenge. Once a "leader" decides you're the next target, it doesn't take much for them to get a few more in power to join them. And it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. It matters who can fight harder or longer. I've seen many a very worth employee and career saved by union representation.
Collective bargaining is the ONLY way people in my organization saw any substantive increase in my pay over the years. Along with collaborative committees that include labor and management, I believe the organization is better overall because of union organization.
There are some unions that are overly political, and I'm not a fan of that. I also think that because of this, unions are unfairly demonized. My father was a union employee as well (totally different union and profession than mine) and the only reason we had good health care and he made a living wage when I was a kid was his union. He didn't pay much attention to the politics of it, he just wanted to make a living and raise his family. Which is all most people care about.
It's really easy for employers to keep unions out of their business. Treat your employees well, and they won't unionize. They won't see a need for it. It really is that simple.
Many employers fear or dislike unions because it makes them accountable to someone other than themselves.
Companies that are facing unionization in their organizations should take a good look at themselves and how they treat their employees.
I am in a unionized position. For the most part, I am pleased with the representation I get from my union. I'm not one of those "problem employees" that has the union save my ares while others do more work. I've never needed them for that.
I have been wrongfully accused of misconduct, and the union was there on my behalf to prevent me from being steamrolled by management. Every organization has tyrants in it, mine included. Personalities clash, and people use their power for personal revenge. Once a "leader" decides you're the next target, it doesn't take much for them to get a few more in power to join them. And it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. It matters who can fight harder or longer. I've seen many a very worth employee and career saved by union representation.
Collective bargaining is the ONLY way people in my organization saw any substantive increase in my pay over the years. Along with collaborative committees that include labor and management, I believe the organization is better overall because of union organization.
There are some unions that are overly political, and I'm not a fan of that. I also think that because of this, unions are unfairly demonized. My father was a union employee as well (totally different union and profession than mine) and the only reason we had good health care and he made a living wage when I was a kid was his union. He didn't pay much attention to the politics of it, he just wanted to make a living and raise his family. Which is all most people care about.
It's really easy for employers to keep unions out of their business. Treat your employees well, and they won't unionize. They won't see a need for it. It really is that simple.
Many employers fear or dislike unions because it makes them accountable to someone other than themselves.
If Apple closed a store and the Union agreement had something to the effect of if the store close's they would have to relocate employees to another store. I don't know for sure but it would not surprise me.
Unions are NOT the best answer IMHO Gee if management did there jobs and worked TOGETHER life at Apple stores would be better..............
You buy products made by slave labor. Get off your high horse. There is no moral high ground for anyone.
Apple should be doing right by the union and allowing people to unionize. Its the least they could do.
If my memory serves me well. During Covid Apple closed stores but didn’t lay off any of their retail staff, full or part-time. Those people continued to get paid based on their average hours. In the last year or so the starting pay moved so be like $24 an hour. They got increased to paid vacation and sick leave. Better college reimbursement. Not sure what healthcare Apple offers.
I compare their benefits to what I have working in a retail warehouse. I would jump ship to an Apple Store in a heart beat if one was close enough. I would get like $5-6 more an hour. I might lose a few days of vacation but over time I would get that back. I would probably generally only work 40 hours vs the 50-60 I have done for the last nearly 3 years.
I don’t understand why people are complaining so much when there are a lot of jobs out there that are way worse and/or get paid way less.
Wanna know the secret to not getting fired or let go. Make yourself to valuable to the company. That’s what I do.
I compare their benefits to what I have working in a retail warehouse. I would jump ship to an Apple Store in a heart beat if one was close enough. I would get like $5-6 more an hour. I might lose a few days of vacation but over time I would get that back. I would probably generally only work 40 hours vs the 50-60 I have done for the last nearly 3 years.
I don’t understand why people are complaining so much when there are a lot of jobs out there that are way worse and/or get paid way less.
Wanna know the secret to not getting fired or let go. Make yourself to valuable to the company. That’s what I do.
In your mind MAYBE , however have YOU ever worked retail? Depending on the company its a good or nightmare experience.
I couldn't disagree more. The lower your financial tier the more you think you are entitled more pay, benefits, vacation, etc. than your education or professional skills warrant. Retail jobs, in general, are not supposed to be household supporting careers. Ever hear the term "entry level"?
Unions shrink and grow based on their ability to con the least common denominator worker into believing that unionizing will get them "fat cat executive pay".
I doubt any job is perfect but Apple's retail operations are fairly well regarded as top notch. I would acknowledge that the off the clock bag inspections were draconian but employees prevailed in that without unions. What is sad about that situation is that Apple experienced a level of theft that necessitated that policy in the first place.
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Not directing this comment at you personally because everyone is different, but in my experience good, high performing, high quality employees usually have no trouble negotiating directly.
Bad unions, typically, protect those that don't really care to work very hard or very well.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but have you ever seen how busy every Apple Store is? That is not an average retail job. It is very rare to see any idle employees ever at an Apple Store because they are the most successful retail business at every location where they are and it is obvious. Just walk by the front of the store and look. If you need help there you have to make an appointment most of the time. Every Apple Store I have seen is like this, in the US, in Germany, in France, in the UK, and in The Netherlands. It is truly an amazing business, and the employees being unionized is not likely to change it.
Yet you still feel underpaid and wanted to move if you have the opportunity. 😂 So much for that making yourself "valuable" to your company, because apparently they don't feel you are (based on your own assessment).
And replace it with one where? Apple Penn Square is the only Apple store in OKC and one of two in the state of Oklahoma; the other is a couple hours away in Tulsa. Penn Square is likely the only mall in OKC that can support an Apple store (OKC does have another mall but it’s…not in good shape), and I don’t see Apple investing in a standalone location.
The store’s pretty much always packed even after almost doubling in size several years back, so a claim that it’s no longer meeting really any (reasonable) financial standard would be immediately suspect.
A lot of people here talk about Unions in absolute terms (Good or Bad) and it just shows their lack of honesty and knowledge.
Unions have a long history of being gangsters and opportunists, and Companies have a long history of treating workers poorly. But there are also good unions (that work well with companies) and good companies (that work well with or don't need unions). There is no absolute good or bad, it is up to the workers and company to decide. That is why "right to work" is a good thing.
If the employee thinks they are better off with the Union, then let them join. If not then they should not have to pay dues and suffer the downsides of union employment. This forces both the Union and Company to be reasonable.
Unions have a long history of being gangsters and opportunists, and Companies have a long history of treating workers poorly. But there are also good unions (that work well with companies) and good companies (that work well with or don't need unions). There is no absolute good or bad, it is up to the workers and company to decide. That is why "right to work" is a good thing.
If the employee thinks they are better off with the Union, then let them join. If not then they should not have to pay dues and suffer the downsides of union employment. This forces both the Union and Company to be reasonable.
Apple contracted with a company that had suicide nets at its plants. I do not know if they are still there but that should tell you something.
„…and Apple has been accused of anti-union tactics over the last several months. A vote to unionize at an Apple store in Atlanta was withdrawn earlier this year after Apple reportedly intimidated staff there.“This is comical on a couple of levels:
Calling 32 people "lemmings" who:
That is simply laughable!
- Chose to be recognized as individuals.
- Chose to represent and bargain for themselves and not be subject to the collective process.
- Chose to be recognized for personal performance instead of seniority.
- Chose not to pay a percentage of their hard earned wages to union bosses and their political leanings.
Urban Dictionary: lemming
A member of a crowd with no originality or voice of his own. One who speaks or repeats only what he has been told. A tool. A cretin.www.urbandictionary.com
It would be more accurate to characterize the 56 who voted in favor of unionizing as "lemmings".
Secondly, stop virtue signalling. If you want to stand on your high horse and speak of human rights then you should abandon all tech made in China. Be brave and vote with your dollars. Speaking of the working conditions of Apple's retail employees and Human Rights in the same sentence is silly.
Yep lemmings, you got it, brainwashed a corp with mafia tactics. Well, few of them are maybe just victims, who knows…
Anyway, it‘s Apple who run human rights campaigns for millions, and continues to climb up Chinese regimes for pure greediness.
Truth hurts, right!
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The Oklahoma and Maryland stores are small and it won't hurt Apple if operations were disrupted there. I believe they intend to make an example of these stores to deter unionization at locations where it would hurt more, like New York and California.
I hope that people eventually people see through the nonsense and force companies to pay fair wages. We need to return to a place where a person with one full time job can afford a place to live, go to the doctor and get an education without falling into lifelong debt.
Every company including Apple cuts costs wherever they can to make a profit - simple fact of business.
So don't be fooled when Apple says how they've raised pay - (costing them more money) - and that being in a union is worse for the workers.
If it was truly worse for workers - Apple would be promoting unions.
Unions are better for employees once the unions are established over time.
Seems most people commenting have never been in a union or are to young to ever have worked in the first place.
So don't be fooled when Apple says how they've raised pay - (costing them more money) - and that being in a union is worse for the workers.
If it was truly worse for workers - Apple would be promoting unions.
Unions are better for employees once the unions are established over time.
Seems most people commenting have never been in a union or are to young to ever have worked in the first place.
Sorry to have to point this out, but being a member of a Union is not the same as being a Bolshevik. Seems to be a peculiarly Murican thing that when anyone expresses the notion that the people at the bottom (i.e. you and me) should look after each other, or that they can get a better deal from their employers (who would rather pay them as little as possible and have them work as much as possible) by acting together, that's the same as Communism!
It is not!
Again, laughable. No where can I find anything that counts as true intimidation. Yes, managers received "anti-union" scripts and employees were required to attend meetings with "anti-union" messaging, this to me is just Apple ensuring that their employees hear both sides of the story. What here forced the employees to change their minds from the 70% that initially were pro-union? Were they threatened with violence or something? LOL! These employees took in all available information and simply changed their minds! Now the initial group, having lost, are claiming "intimidation".
Sounds to me like a small handful of employees wanted to unionize and tried to get the rest of their co-workers to join but when those co-workers were given both sides of the story they changed their minds.
If receiving equal information from both sides is "intimidation" or "coercion" then we have a problem.
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Because we are talking about Apple here - “Think Different!”, promoting Gandhi and Martin Luther King ideals, human & environmental benefits of their work, etc.
