Apple Store in Oklahoma City Becomes Second in U.S. to Unionize

[Wildkraut]

Human rights? Are they forced to work in unsafe or degrading positions? What actual “human right” is being put aside in Apple stores? Fact is, no one knows if it’s “we have to work with a sharp stick in our back” or “the manager doesn’t say ‘good morning’ in the tone I prefer”. From the “demands list” leaked from Towson, it appears to lean towards the latter.


How are the conditions bad? They have to stand?


“miserable work conditions”? In what way?

Well, I'm really not going to dig out all the news we have read "few of them even in here on MacRumors" about Apple and their bad working conditions from bag check lawsuit, mobbing, retaliation discrimination, sexual harassment lawsuits, etc. and now by applying anti-union tactics by intimidating staff.

Simply confirms Apples best practices.

 

[amaze1499]

The lovely diversity all colours and genders we are all a big family driven speech changing Apple doesn't like their employees to unionise. Well, it is somewhat funny.

 

[icanhazmac]

bad working conditions from bag check lawsuit, mobbing, retaliation discrimination, sexual harassment lawsuits, etc.

Any of these can apply to both union and non-union workplaces, try harder.

 

[Wildkraut]

Any of these can apply to both union and non-union workplaces, try harder.

Just completes the picture of inside Apple, lawsuit is lawsuit, i don't need to try anything.

 

[visualseed]

Employees being able to voice their concerns and negotiate solutions is a good thing.

Normally, yes. With a union you have an intermediary that is going to negotiate on your behalf. That means that only issue that are agreed on by some consensus are negotiated. You now have no avenue for addressing the individual concerns that you may have once been able to negotiate with management one on one. Once the basic things like base pay and benefits are agreed to the other things become long and drawn out processes that may take longer than the average person's tenure of employment to resolve. While over time the union may benefit a class of workers in these high-turnover fields, in the short-term, the individual worker is rarely going to see an improvement over their short employment period (20 month average for Apple retail) unless they plan to make a career out of it which would most likely put them on a non-union management track anyway.

 

[squirrellydw]

any store, apple or not that is unionized I will NOT shop at or support.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Americans are struggling and there’s no one left to defend them. They’re finally standing up for benefits and security. All companies have to do is offer something similar, and the unionizing will stop since it’s a form of protesting against capitalistic abuse.

It’s a protest until they actually do it. I really wish corporations would just give employees livable conditions instead of abusing them until they can’t take it anymore.

The reason Americans don’t like unions is that the unions tend to then become their own problem. Apple’s complaint that they can’t deal directly with their own employees anymore is a valid one, but on the other hand they clearly weren’t being treated well anyway.

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to how Apple Store employees have anything to do with machinists and aerospace workers. At least the one in this story makes sense as they could be seen as communications workers.

 

[inkswamp]

Apple store employees are oppressed???

It’s worse than I thought…

You're making my point for me. You know that's not what I'm saying and instead, you're trying to shift my point of view to make it sound dumb. If you love the oppression and want to defend it, so be it, but don't mock me for it.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Well, I'm really not going to dig out all the news we have read "few of them even in here on MacRumors" about Apple and their bad working conditions from bag check lawsuit, mobbing, retaliation discrimination, sexual harassment lawsuits, etc. and now by applying anti-union tactics by intimidating staff.

Yes, agreed, no actual human rights violations or there would be far more going on than just two unions being formed. While “human rights violations” generally describes really horrific conditions and situations, I do recognize that it’s popular for some folks to use those terms as hyperbole.

 

[CJM]

I’m sure the customers will bene…yeah, couldn’t keep a straight face, sorry. A location to avoid for sure, shame for the customers around there.

Wow I'm glad I don't live in the same country as you.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The Towson Union actually sent a survey to their members to identify up to three of these as the most important improvements to them. I’m assuming if there are truly horrific conditions at Apple, we’d see that indicated here as the horrible things and practices that EVERYONE has experienced and that those union employees would like to see ended.

• Wage increases
• Improvements to health and welfare benefits
• medical costs containment
• Retirement (pension)
• Scheduling issues
• Improve paid time off (vacation, holidays, sick leave)
• Respect from employer
• increase staffing
• Other (I guess human rights violations COULD fit under “other”, but one would think they’d call them out specifically)

Other questions on the survey asked members to rate areas of improvement as not important, slightly important, very important, or essential.

• General wage increases
• Transparency on wages/pay brackets
• Premium pay for special skills (e.g., non-English-speaking employees)
• Reduce time it takes to reach maximum rate of pay
• Add cost-of-living adjustment
• Add pension plan (see attached)
• Add profit sharing
• Improve 401(k) savings plan
• Improve medical coverage
• Improve dental coverage
• Improve vision coverage
• Improve mental health coverage
• Improve pet insurance coverage
• Improve accident and sickness coverage
• Improve life insurance coverage
• Medical costs containment
• Overtime procedures
• Increase paid holidays
• More vacation time
• Improve sick leave benefits
• Improve policies/procedures for approval of paid time off
• Improve bereavement pay and/or policy/ies

So, it’s more like “the working conditions are pretty much fine, we just want to actually have to work less, and get more stuff”. What you won’t see here… Coursera and tuition reimbursement.

Waiting to see what comes out of Oklahoma. I’d be willing to bet it’ll be much the same because the “working conditions” at the Apple Store won’t be bad enough for them to have them on a list of demands.

 

[beerseagulls]

Was it this place?

oh... I wish.... it was a metal company(from raw material to sheet metal of any kind, supplied to manufacturers of appliances, automobiles, computers)

 

[inkswamp]

It is absolutely incredible to see how completely some people have bought into the anti-union propaganda around here. But hey, it's inspiring to see people willing to stand up and defend the wealthy and powerful.

 

[Botts85]

If Apple were to offer a better deal, the employees would vote for Apple. Apple right now has to offer a decent package just to attact people to apply to work in the store, Wait until the economy goes down and then Apple non-union people will see all the good benefits cut and many fired with no warning.

Apple already out pays comparable retail jobs, provides better benefits, and has a stellar employee stock purchase program. However, many Apple Retail employees have never worked elsewhere and just think "union = better" as part of their life views.

Hell, I've seen some Apple Retail employees complaining that though they are paid and treated better than any comparable market jobs, "the union" will get them even more than what is competitive.

I worked for the fruit stand, and my benefits were better than I had at a comparable government job. The pay (albeit with more varied hours) outclassed government employees as well.

When one of the unionized stores eventually strikes and ends up in arbitration, many unionized employees will be in for a rough surprise when an arbitrator rightfully concludes that demands for compensation and benefit packages that are above already "over-market" conditions is unreasonable.

And to see that the employees want "profit-sharing" when Apple has the best ESPP I have ever seen is freaking absurd. An employee can put 10% of salary into Apple Stock which they buy at 15% below the lower of the purchase date price or the price 6 months prior. At minimum that's a 1.8% "bonus" if an employee sells on the date the stock is purchased if the stock stayed flat. If the stock gained 10% over that 6 months it's a 2.8% bonus.

If an employee making $46,000 started ESPP on Jan 1, 2020 and maxed it out but sold as soon as the stock was bought, they'd have turned $9,200 into $13,000. However, if that same employee kept the stock, they'd be at $14,100 today. If an employee started ESPP in Jan 2019, they'd be doing incredibly well as those first stocks have almost tripled.

 

[visualseed]

It is absolutely incredible to see how completely some people have bought into the anti-union propaganda around here. But hey, it's inspiring to see people willing to stand up and defend the wealthy and powerful.

You do realize that unions are another power vertical that wield political and economic leverage and are just as likely to exploit their members as corporations are? I'm not here to negate all the benefits of unions, which there are many, but being critical of them, especially in areas where their benefits are negligible, does not make one a victim of "anti-union propaganda"

 

[Botts85]

There was a SCOTUS ruling that basically said companies are people. So that’s how it’s been ever since.

Corporate personhood is far from a uniquely American concept, and has been endorsed by US courts and law since the founding of the United States.

You're conflating the Citizens United decision which entrenched the benefits of the Bill of Rights to corporations with corporate personhood (or having natural person powers or being a legal person or whatever similar doctrine you want to call it) which is decidedly different.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Great news and even better news for Apple employees! Look how great the pay & conditions are in Australia for Apple employees. 👍

They apparently can’t take two consecutive days off in Australia? Is that really a thing?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Since the Appletoo.us doesn’t exist anymore, I tried searching the hashtag #appletoo and found that one person felt uncomfortable in an escalation by management not supporting the employee (I suppose that didn’t want to help the customer?) and handing out free oow repairs.

 

[Botts85]

Since the Appletoo.us doesn’t exist anymore, I tried searching the hashtag #appletoo and found that one person felt uncomfortable in an escalation by management not supporting the employee (I suppose that didn’t want to help the customer?) and handing out free oow repairs.

I've been on all the sides of that one. It's so situational as to be an anecdote not worth discussing.

I've been overruled by managers, I've been supported by managers. I've overruled employees and given OOW repairs for free, and I've supported employees.

The only one I've never done or had done to me is turn a free repair into a paid repair since that really hurts the customer experience and the employee at the bar.

They apparently can’t take two consecutive days off in Australia? Is that really a thing?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's that your availability can't have two days off in a row. I.e., you can't say I'm only available Monday-Friday, or only Monday-Wednesday then Saturday-Sunday in perpetuity. That has been the same for a really long time in North America.

You absolutely can request time off for two days off in a row, but that's discretionary. I know a number of people who chose say Thursday as their day off, then RTO'd the Wednesday or Friday pretty regularly.

 

[Thebrochure]

Unions are kind of like viruses, aren't they?

 

[Thebrochure]

That would be illegal

Nope. Not in the United States. Walmart has done it countless times. It's Apple's store. They can do what they want with it.

 

[XXPP]

Interesting how many corporate apple-polishers are in here, who don’t even hesitate to put human rights aside for an iPhone.

Good to see American employees fighting for their rights, go for it, more stores will join.

It will cost me in higher Apple prices. Always customers pay.

 

[Thebrochure]

Interesting how many corporate apple-polishers are in here, who don’t even hesitate to put human rights aside for an iPhone.

Good to see American employees fighting for their rights, go for it, more stores will join.

Us employees do not have a right to wages beyond the minimum wage. No rights are being violated here. It's just a bunch of people wanting more money and an easier job... that's it.

Also, as I've stated before, there's no law in the US preventing Apple from shutting down unionized stores. So if more want to try it, they'll likely find themselves out of business and the workers searching for new jobs.

 

[mzeb]

collective bargaining can be good and bad. If you have a company that is leading the industry in most retail metrics for employees, the concept of negotiation can push the company to hold back things they would have possibly pushed through much sooner to ensure they have enough points available to negotiate with.

Yes, but that is a relative comparison to other companies working conditions and rewards.

Take the situation where all companies working conditions are sub par with pay that isn’t good enough. There is still a best company it just still doesn’t measure up to what should be. This is where we are now, generally speaking.
There are exceptions like the Wegman’s grocery store that offer good pay, health care, and scholarships for those headed to college but Apple’s comp doesn’t come close. And you better believe Apple’s P&Ls come out way better than Wegman’s. As do most companies. And they all need to do better, including Apple. So unionization makes sense.
FWIW all Wegman’s hired employees are unionized and the union has a healthy negotiating relationship with the company.

 

[SoldOnApple]

What I get from your posts is that you are either too scared or bored to take an interest in your own affairs. Sad way to go through life but have it your way.

Also, that attitude isn't something I would look for in an employee. If negotiating for yourself is too intimidating I doubt you would fight for your ideas in the workplace. You might have great ideas but if you are too timid to fight for them you aren't of much use to me as an employee.

Are you too scared/bored to learn how to repair the engine on your car yourself? Do you pay an expert mechanic to deal with it all for you? If stripping and repairing your own engine is too intimidating for you then that attitude isn't something I would look for in an employee. If you don't have a sewing machine either to darn your own socks, why would I hire someone who doesn't have the initiative to do everything themselves?