Most unions are openly communist in the 21st century, like the early 20th century, vs covertly in the latter half of the 20th. Many people aren’t willing to buy into the “benefits” you gain by getting in bed with communists.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Store in Oklahoma City Becomes Second in U.S. to Unionize
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
They’re communists aesthetically. Anyway, they’re just overshooting from living in a rich country where working 12 hours per day doesn’t afford them an apartment and proper health insurance.
What were you expecting? That they would buy a tent and die young and grateful?
Then some don’t understand why we have so many mentally ill individuals and desperate people falling for personality cults
Go visit Germany and tell us how many tent towns you find
Must be due to the American Republican or Democrat party eh?
Watching people borderline supporting capitalistic slavery is a whole new level of crazy. People banding together to fight for what they think is right is what America was built on. A lot just seem to have forgotten.
“Hey you’re costing us more money than you are making us. We have decided to stop the bleeding and we think the best way to do that is to give you even more money and/or transfer you to water down better-performing teams at other branches.”
Are you for real?
It also extends to just shutting down stores. You should take some time and research it. It's pretty interesting stuff.
No it doesn't. And I've researched plenty on the subject.
Straight from the Supreme Court decision-
2. Closing part of a business is an unfair labor practice under § 8(a)(3) of the Act if the purpose is to discourage unionism in any of the employer's remaining plants and if the employer may reasonably have foreseen such effect. Pp. 380 U. S. 274-275
The ammount of communists on this board is amazing! NOBODY forces employees to work at Apple (or anywhere for that matter). If you want more money and benefits - be better! I did it. It's not hard, I promise. But it requires work and skills and knowledge. Much more difficult than screaming "GIEB ME MONEY" and joining a union. Anyway, prices will go up, service will go do, consumers will pay for this in the end.
Also I live in Germany. The work ethic here is non-existant. Nobody cares for service, speed, and quality. Why? Nobody can be fired, they work when they want, and quality and results don't matter. How do you finance this mediocrity? 40%+ income tax, 19% VAT on goods and services, taxes on fuel, etc etc. Imagine Americans being taxed 50% regardless of income and paying 20% sales tax on everything. But hey, "free" healthcare and "free" education. By the way, you cannot go to a German university if you didn't go to the elite gymnasiums (which immigrants and lower class citizens don't go to).
Also I live in Germany. The work ethic here is non-existant. Nobody cares for service, speed, and quality. Why? Nobody can be fired, they work when they want, and quality and results don't matter. How do you finance this mediocrity? 40%+ income tax, 19% VAT on goods and services, taxes on fuel, etc etc. Imagine Americans being taxed 50% regardless of income and paying 20% sales tax on everything. But hey, "free" healthcare and "free" education. By the way, you cannot go to a German university if you didn't go to the elite gymnasiums (which immigrants and lower class citizens don't go to).
That would be any 1st world western country aside the USA.
Or maybe you’re paid well for what you do, and everything is fine and other people are paid badly but cannot say anything for risk of being fired?
Power to the corporations! Go you! Down with the peasants!
You have no idea about what you’re trying to argue against. That’s the problem with most of this thread. Try understanding, and then forming an opinion. People are much more receptive to that than reading clearly ignorant statements.
Brilliant. Let’s keep these workers under our thumb, court mandated! Only the USA. Lol.
Benefits aside, Wegman's pays an average hourly wage of $14.11 while Apple Retail pays $16.02. I'm not saying Apple could not do much better than they are, but I would hardly consider that exceptionally good pay.
Please define "paid badly" and in reference to what position.
Why is it that some feel that every single "job" has to be household supporting? Some positions were never meant to be household supporting, they were meant to be first jobs for teens, supplemental as in a part time job in addition to ones primary work or as a full or part-time supplement to the primary earner in a household. Want to know why we now have to self checkout in supermarkets? Because someone decided that the wage for that position should be able to support a household. It costs less to implement the technology (and increased theft loss) versus pay exaggerated wages for near zero skill positions.
IMHO the vast majority of retail checkout positions or flipping burgers at McDs qualify as the above, they are not meant to support a household or be a career, nor should they.
PS - Retail positions are widely available! Almost every retail establishment I walk into has a help wanted sign in it so if one gets fired for asking for higher compensation they will easily find another position.
I sell products to retail stores and their #1 challenge right now is finding staff, no one wants to work. A certain generation feels entitled to $20/hr with a full benefits package for entry level retail work, they refuse to work more than 6hr shifts or weekends or clean the bathrooms and the second they are challenged about spending too much time on their phones they quit. A lot of my retailers are actively hiring seniors as they have a work ethic.
Last edited:
You probably mean socialist.
So they are worthless people, you’re saying?
So an unemployed father, who lost his skilled job due to a company expending him for their own benefit and did so due to a lack of rights afforded by a more civilised system where a union can exist, who is forced into a retail position due to lack of suitable jobs and the inability to claim benefits to make ends meet until he finds a more suitable position (as said benefits hardly exist), shouldn’t have the right to fight for a more liveable wage and better conditions from multinational corporations ? They shouldn’t have the right to a collective voice to aid that end? That’s absurd, and not seeing it as a presumed ‘normal’ person (ie, a worker) is frankly disturbing. Yes. Keep poor people poor I say! That’ll teach ‘em.
None of this answers my questions. I asked specifically for you to define "badly paid" an in regards to what position?
The "no one wants to work anymore" trope has been going on for a couple centuries now. It's been used to denigrate working class expectations of reasonable wages and working conditions as being unrealistic and entitled while falsely painting employers as being altruistic and more than generous with their meager offerings. "No one wants to work under these conditions" would be a more appropriate and honest comment and truly reflective of the situation.
Retail stores that are having problems staffing today are competing in a tight labor market where better paying jobs are plentiful. Even if someone is not "supporting a household" why would they do the same job for half the pay they could get just by working for a different company down the street? Labor shortages are good opportunities to weed out the businesses that were built on the back of cheap labor and make them historical footnotes.
I'm sick of the word "trope" it is usually used when facts disrupt ones desired narrative.
I am telling you for a fact that retailers (from mom and pop to regional chains) in my field cannot find people to work and when they do hire someone (usually teens through early twenties):
- They work for 2 days and then never come back
- Are fired for never putting their phones down
- Refuse to work the required shifts or weekends
- Refuse to actually work, like sweep the floors, merchandise goods, clean bathrooms, etc.
This is absolute fact in my industry right now and it has nothing to do with higher paying jobs being available. If a massive number of higher paying jobs are available then what is all this union nonsense about?
Please detail for me what an individual should make for the following job description (obviously abbreviated):
Part time 20-30 hours a week, 4-8 hour shifts, including weekends
Required:
Wait on consumers and complete their transactions via a point of sale system
Keep the retail store presentable for customers, this may include:
- Sweeping/moping floors
- Dusting
- Cleaning windows
- Merchandising shelves
- Maintaining restrooms
What should this job pay in terms of $$/hr and benefits, please be specific an average is ok, not NYC but not rural Alabama either.
Last edited:
Less about the pay, more about the benefits. You can’t put benefits aside. Total comp is key in these calculations. Benefits in most jobs are about 50% of what an employee costs. They are important.
Also, Apple stores are generally in more populated areas. Regional adjustment is important. Apple employees should probably be much better paid on average if only because of where Apple’s stores are. The fact that Apple pays less than 15% more on average is pretty unnerving as I see it.
Something that I’d thought as well. If there really ARE no more higher paying retail jobs in that mall or in the surrounding area… OR if not higher paying then at least better benefits… if Apple is actually the best anyone looking for a retail job in that area can find, both wages and benefits, then that’s absolutely where I can see union being the only option. OR, as a job requirement “Apple Store” is on the top of the list and they couldn’t fathom working anywhere else.
We’ve seen the list of demands for Towson and I wouldn’t expect any employee anywhere in the mall wouldn’t have a list that’s wholly the same. There’s nothing uniquely Apple about anything they want. Then considering that EVERY store in the mall pays less than Apple for retail, have we seen ANY other stores unionizing? This could have less to do with “conditions” and more to do with just wanting more for working less hours. Which is fine if they can get it, who doesn’t want more pay AND more vacation? But, that kinda closes the book on “poor working conditions” when “poor” is effectively “not making as much as I want and actually having to show up more days in the year than I’d prefer.”