Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
If I'm not mistaken, Samsung doesn't even offer Dolby Vision as they think HDR 10+ is better or don't want to pay Dolby the licensing fee (more likely).

So most of you (Samsung is the most popular flat panel) don't even have Dolby Vision capability on your 4K TV.
Correct, Samsung doesn't support DV. They are part of the group that created HDR10+. And while they don't charge licensing fees to use it they do charge an annual "maintenance fee". But so far the industry is set on DV.
This is one reason i'll never own a Samsung TV. And they're over priced for what they are. I only look at TV's that have Dolby Vision.
 

quagski

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2014
73
80
Honestly, I prefer HDR10+ over DV in most scenes. Only on rare occasions, DV is better. Not sure if HDR10+ is supported though?
Not supported by ATV4K. Only a small amount of Vizio and Samsung TVs support HDR10+ (US TVs) anyway.
 

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
I never really understood or looked into Dolby Vision HDR vs HDR10 (what I currently have). I thought I was golden with HDR10, but this article is making Dolby sound amazing and telling me I need to buy a new TV! :D What do you guys think? A worthwhile upgrade?
Depends on the content. Some content in DV doesn't look any better than HDR. Though other content will look much better. I don't know that I'd buy a new tv just for that but if you're due for an upgrade I'd only look at TV's that have DV.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkslide29

quagski

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2014
73
80
Why do I feel like I'm the only one who does not care about these fancy stuff? As long as I can view the show in 1080p, I'm good.
Have you ever watched 4K HDR shows on an OLED? The difference is stark.
[automerge]1575650265[/automerge]
Same thing happened to me but I have a theory. It seems that the new iOS is being way more demanding on the cable requirements. It began to not accept my cable as a good Dolby Vision cable. I still need to buy a new cable, an official good 18gbps hdmi cable to test it.

Anyone is having this issue with a 18gbps hdmi tested cable?
Here's your cable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: archer75

Baymowe335

Suspended
Oct 6, 2017
6,640
12,451
Have you ever watched 4K HDR shows on an OLED? The difference is stark.
[automerge]1575650265[/automerge]

Here's your cable.
It looks great, but I'd never own an OLED because of the issues with burn (I watch too much CNBC). They also don't get as bright as a TV like the QLED Samsung Q9.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yojimbo007

hmbtnguy

macrumors newbie
Sep 27, 2012
15
4
San Diego, CA
I'm glad that I wasn't going crazy when I first noticed this ~4 weeks ago.

It was pretty clear to me while watching The Morning Show that the colors seemed flatter and the gamma wasn't as refined.

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed since the initial Apple TV+ launch had the highest quality streaming out of all other services. As much of a step up HDR10 is over SDR, DV really does bring it to the next level.
 

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
Have you ever watched 4K HDR shows on an OLED? The difference is stark.
exactly. 4k isn't really the upgrade. Depending on tv size and viewing distance it can look better. Or not. HDR on the other hand is an absolutely massive improvement. Completely game changing. And since it's the main difference I'd only look at TV's that support dolby vision.
Cheaper TV's don't really do HDR all that well. So there's a reason to spend more.
 

quagski

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2014
73
80
What Monitor/TV do you have that supports both HDR10+ and DolbyVision so you can do a side by side comparison? What content do you watch that has been graded in both formats?

Really curious as I know of no sets that support both and I would be interested in seeing a head to head comparison.

Neither AppleTV (the hardware), nor AppleTV+ (the service) support HDR10+.
Vizio released an OTA update to give some some sets (I believe 2019 and 2018) HDR10+ support. They already had DV support. If you have two UHD disc players and two sets you can force each disc player to force the formats to compare.
 

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
It looks great, but I'd never own an OLED because of the issues with burn (I watch too much CNBC). They also don't get as bright as a TV like the QLED Samsung Q9.
When it's in your viewing environment they are plenty bright enough. I've heard people say they don't get as bright but there's times it's so bright I have to squint. So I really don't get the complaint.

The burn in issue is way over blown. Testing shows you have to run them in pretty extreme circumstances to get burn in. Rtings did it for 20 hours a day for 6 months of the same content to get burn in. Never watching anything else. News logos would burn in. Sports logos and scores and such didn't.
[automerge]1575650611[/automerge]
Vizio released an OTA update to give some some sets (I believe 2019 and 2018) HDR10+ support. They already had DV support. If you have two UHD disc players and two sets you can force each disc player to force the formats to compare.
Forcing it really isn't accurate if the content doesn't have it. You would need content that is mastered in DV and HDR10+ to compare. You never want to force an HDR mode.
That said, the 2019 Vizio Quantum X TV's are amazing. You have to spend twice as much on Samsung Q9 or sony to equal the picture.
 
Last edited:

Baymowe335

Suspended
Oct 6, 2017
6,640
12,451
When it's in your viewing environment they are plenty bright enough. I've heard people say they don't get as bright but there's times it's so bright I have to squint. So I really don't get the complaint.

The burn in issue is way over blown. Testing shows you have to run them in pretty extreme circumstances to get burn in. Rtings did it for 20 hours a day for 6 months of the same content to get burn in. Never watching anything else. News logos would burn in. Sports logos and scores and such didn't.
[automerge]1575650611[/automerge]

Forcing it really isn't accurate if the content doesn't have it. You would need content that is mastered in DV and HDR10+ to compare. You never want to force an HDR mode.
If you're in a naturally lit room, it's sometimes annoying to have an OLED. I have a buddy with the 77" LG C9 and it's noticeably dim during the day. In controlled lighting, it's phenomenal. I have a Samsung 82" Q9 and I honestly think the picture is better in the day, better for gaming and almost as good for HDR movies, just not as inky blacks.
 

RollTide1017

macrumors 6502
Sep 28, 2009
264
102
Montgomery, AL
How many people actually notice a difference between HDR10 and Dolby vision anyway?
On my TV (TCL P605), DV looks sightly more vibrant than HDR10, even after calibrating both modes. DV black level are also a little better. It's not a huge difference but, I do notice one and prefer DV. Other's experiences may differ on their TVs.
 

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
If you're in a naturally lit room, it's sometimes annoying to have an OLED. I have a buddy with the 77" LG C9 and it's noticeably dim during the day. In controlled lighting, it's phenomenal. I have a Samsung 82" Q9 and I honestly think the picture is better in the day, better for gaming and almost as good for HDR movies, just not as inky blacks.
yeah it can depend on lighting conditions. I feel like we have a good amount of light during the day and I'm not having issues with it. The C9 did receive a gaming focused firmware update. Input lag is down. Support for G-sync. It's fantastic for gaming. I'm on the B6 and considering upgraded to the 77" C9 or Sony A9G master series.
Though eventually microled(not to be confused with miniled) with replace OLED and LCD. All the pros of both with none of the cons.
 
Last edited:

quagski

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2014
73
80
It looks great, but I'd never own an OLED because of the issues with burn (I watch too much CNBC). They also don't get as bright as a TV like the QLED Samsung Q9.
Burn-in is completely overblown. Newer OLED sets have plenty of mitigating settings as well as auto-screen correction features to improve older burn-in concerns. Not to mention, numerous tests have show burn-in is a non-issue when varying content.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G3
Mar 29, 2008
9,926
3,801
Seattle
It would be nice if the Apple TV showed what video format was being displayed. Similar to Amazon when you check the playback time.

Good luck with that. Apple TV can’t even display 24hz properly (playing it back at 23.976hz). Makes watching foreign (non-USA etc) movies a pain with the frame rate.

Boggles the mind Apple still hasn’t fixed that.
 

Baymowe335

Suspended
Oct 6, 2017
6,640
12,451
Burn-in is completely overblown. Newer OLED sets have plenty of mitigating settings as well as auto-screen correction features to improve older burn-in concerns. Not to mention, numerous tests have show burn-in is a non-issue when varying content.
I agree it's not the worst thing ever, but if I'm paying $5,000 for a TV, I don't want this after 18 weeks.

http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/lg/real-burn-in/real-burn-in-week-18-tv-3-magenta-large.jpg

If I work at home, I might have CNBC on for 10 hrs. This was after 20 hrs/day for 18 weeks. Sure, that's a lot, but 5 hrs/day isn't. So my guess is it would look like this at 5 hrs/day after about 72 weeks (less than 1.5 yrs) IF you watch a lot of CNN, CNBC, etc.
 

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
Good luck with that. Apple TV can’t even display 24hz properly (playing it back at 23.976hz). Makes watching foreign (non-USA etc) movies a pain with the frame rate.

Boggles the mind Apple still hasn’t fixed that.
Use your TV's motion settings. Problem solved. With the proper settings you won't get dropped frames from that and you also won't get the soap opera effect(which no one wants). I have my LG B6 set that way and never see any dropped frames.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
5,550
5,879
Why do I feel like I'm the only one who does not care about these fancy stuff? As long as I can view the show in 1080p, I'm good.
Do your wallet a huge favor and never take a good long look at an OLED TV. I almost wish I hadn’t, for I am now ruined.
 

ke-iron

macrumors 68000
Aug 14, 2014
1,537
1,020
Before Dolby vision HDR was the it, and now they’re saying without Dolby vision an odd tint may be seen, or scenes too dark and whatever else they said. They make it sound like standard HDR isn’t good. I guess if our tv’s aren’t showing in Dolby vision we shouldn’t watch standard HDR, just switch back to SDR.
 

archer75

macrumors 68040
Jan 26, 2005
3,116
1,746
Oregon
Before Dolby vision HDR was the it, and now they’re saying without Dolby vision an odd tint may be seen, or scenes too dark and whatever else they said. They make it sound like standard HDR isn’t good. I guess if our tv’s aren’t showing in Dolby vision we shouldn’t watch standard HDR, just switch back to SDR.
Nobody is saying that. HDR is great. Dolby Vision is just better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nutmac

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,061
7,340
Honestly, I prefer HDR10+ over DV in most scenes. Only on rare occasions, DV is better. Not sure if HDR10+ is supported though?
You mean HDR10? Apple, along with almost all streaming services, do not support HDR10+.

Also, if HDR10 looks better than DV, your TV maybe the culprit. Which set are you using?
[automerge]1575656311[/automerge]
You mean like how Netflix charges you extra for HD and 4k?

How much does Netflix cost?
We have a variety of plans to fit your life.
  • Basic - ($8.99 per month) Watch on 1 screen in SD quality.
  • Standard - ($12.99 per month) Watch on 2 screens at a time with HD available.
  • Premium - ($15.99 per month) Watch on 4 screens at a time with HD and Ultra HD available.
It's ridiculous that Netflix charges for HD and UHD. This is very cable TV-like behavior. And before someone say "but you get 4 screens", I have no need for 4 simultaneous screen. I just don't want Netflix to look like crap in comparison to Amazon, Apple TV+, Disney+, and Hulu originals.
 
Last edited:

fontman

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2009
237
168
Costa mesa



We're hearing multiple reports worldwide from subscribers to Apple TV+, Apple's video streaming service, about the loss of support for watching shows in Dolby Vision HDR on Apple TV 4K set-top boxes connected to compatible 4K TVs.

apple-tv-plus-series-banner.jpg

Over the past two weeks, more and more users have taken to the MacRumors forums, Twitter, Reddit and Apple's discussion pages to highlight the problem, which appears to be affecting not only new show episodes as they're made available, but existing episodes hosted on the service that previously worked in Dolby Vision HDR.

For example, early episodes of "See," "The Morning Show" and "For All Mankind" are no longer being streamed in dynamic Dolby Vision HDR, but revert back to static HDR in HDR10 format on TVs that officially support Dolby Vision. The same goes for brand new episodes of these shows that were released today, despite the fact that they still carry the Dolby Vision HDR support label on the summary screens.

Compared to static HDR10 which works uniformly across content, Dolby Vision HDR use dynamic image metadata that enables Dolby Vision-capable TVs to adapt the extended color gamut and increased contrast range of HDR on a scene-by-scene and even frame-by-frame basis. Losing the DV HDR support can result in scenes that look too dark, appear like a negative image, or have an odd tint to them.

@UHD4k I don't know if it's just me but today on my Apple TV 4K when I watch an Apple TV+ show (See and Morning show) it's in HDR instead of Dolby vision. Used to work fine.Weird.— Djems (@Djems94) December 6, 2019

Some users have suggested that the affected episodes may still be encoded in Dolby Vision and it's actually a bug in Apple TV's Match Dynamic Range feature that's preventing the set-top box from outputting the source content correctly. However, it seems more likely that Apple has removed support from the source content while it resolves a problem streaming shows in Dolby Vision.

It's worth noting that the problem doesn't currently seem to affect all shows on Apple TV+ for at least some users. There are scattered reports that "The Elephant Mother" documentary and Apple's "Dickinson" show still appear to be streaming in full Dolby Vision HDR, as do some kids shows like "Snoopy in Space."

We've contacted Apple for comment on the issue and will update this article if we learn anything more.

Article Link: Apple TV+ Content No Longer Playing in Dolby Vision HDR for Apple TV 4K Owners
[automerge]1575656837[/automerge]
Dose it really matter that much :)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.