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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Consumer choice is good. If Safari is best browser, let customers choose it as default. If customer wants some other browser as default, let them choose the other. If Apple App store is best app store through a consumer lens, they will use it. If someone else offers some benefit to that consumer, they will use that one. Maybe the App Store offers some benefit for one app purchase and some other App Store offers a desirable benefit for another app? If so, consumer can "shop around"- as we all do for other purchases- to get the best deal for each consumer.

If you have as little as ONE app on your Mac that you got from some source other than the Apple Mac App Store, you should very much appreciate this EU freedom because you indulged in it yourself (where you were able). If you are not in the EU now, you're just NOT able to do the same on iDevice apps... but our EU friends can. Now they get to decide such things for themselves vs. as it is for the rest of us where a for-profit, richest-in-the-world, "company store" has a complete hold on all such decisions for us.

See IE circa 199X when it was the default choice for Windows and- as such- quickly crushed the established competitor at the time and came to dominate the browser space so much that the Apple resurrection under Jobs had to include IE on Macs into the early 2000s. Remember IE for OSX? I think it was on Macs until about 2003 or so when Safari finally arrived. If you didn't rail against consumer choice of browser to benefit Microsoft Inc. back then, we might want to think a little more carefully about how we feel about this scenario now. Just because we love this other brand much more doesn't mean the underlying motivations & limitations & opportunism is not just about the SAME.

A group of customers gaining the power to decide what software they want on their own computing tech is equivalent to all of us Mac owners getting to decide which software we want on our Macs and/or from where we wish to procure apps and/or pay the fees for the services related to such apps. If any of us are perfectly happy with Apple and only Apple choices of browser, store, in-app fee processing... that doesn't mean that everyone else in the world is perfectly happy with the same. On Mac, we can choose the everything-Apple/Apple defaults options while the next guy can choose other browser/apps/in app purchase & payment channels, etc. If the next guy chooses different than me, that has zero effect on me... and vice-versa.

And if we are NOT in the EU, this also has no effect on "us"- our very limited choices of browser, no choices of App Store, select app availability or no availability as chosen by "Daddy" and/or how we pay some in-app fees to either split off a big chunk to Apple Inc or let all of it flow through to the creator of the app itself. This only affects EU Apple people and thus it seems THEY should have a say about matters relevant to only them... while the rest of us roll with how things are where we are (because that's the only non-choice we have)... instead of railing how these distant strangers should have to have it only as we have it and/or like/love/worship it ourselves.

As an American, I envy the much greater, very-Mac-like freedoms in the EU along these lines. I'd rather have choices than having a group of corporate strangers choosing for me... just as it has always been with Mac. Congratulations EU Apple people. Enjoy your freedom of choice!
 
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Lyrics23

macrumors newbie
Feb 9, 2023
25
251
It’s always insane to me to see so many people on this forum side with the anti-competitive behaviour of the trillion dollar company, rather than basic government regulations that keep these companies in check.

I suppose that’s what you get on a forum specifically dedicated to coverage of one of those companies, but it’s still sad to see.
 

UliBaer

macrumors regular
Feb 10, 2024
101
180
Germany
As usual, the browser selection was implemented in the least meaningful way. No wonder, there are complaints! When i was presented to the browser selection, i thought: "WTF! I already have chosen a different browser than safari! Why Apple is nagging me with this sh*4?"
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
14,723
21,358
As the head of a browser company you could have some valid complaints, but your credibility craters when you make the claim that this process is “convoluted”.

You can assert that you *wish* there was more details on the browsers, or something else concrete, but there is nothing “convoluted” about icons on a list.
 

Fuzzball84

macrumors 68020
Apr 19, 2015
2,146
4,885
I am from Europe and I really hope that Apple pull back from the EU. I wouldn't be mad. EU is going to kill innovation and stop future companies to enter the EU with all the regulations.
Have you seen regulations in other trading blocs… id say the EU is isnt that bad compared to the activities of other trading blocs and their protectionist actions and laws.

This is ignorance of massive proportions
 

Fuzzball84

macrumors 68020
Apr 19, 2015
2,146
4,885
I think the EU was happy when Nokia was the global leader. They also didn't mind BMW trying to force subscription for heated seats. They only have issues when the US companies try to make profit.
Have you seen what the US is doing to its competitor companies and countries… every country looks after its own.

Can you not see that??
 

zach-coleman

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2022
1,187
2,105
I still think this screen mostly just confused old people who didn’t remember what browser they were already using. If you wanted to change your default, it was not hard to do so. Don’t think this did much for intentional attempts to choose a new browser. But I guess that’s considered progress to the EU, for whatever reason.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,336
31,472
How does this currently work on the Mac and on Windows? What is the best way to implement something like this?
 

Fuzzball84

macrumors 68020
Apr 19, 2015
2,146
4,885
It’s always insane to me to see so many people on this forum side with the anti-competitive behaviour of the trillion dollar company, rather than basic government regulations that keep these companies in check.

I suppose that’s what you get on a forum specifically dedicated to coverage of one of those companies, but it’s still sad to see.
Yeah, you’re unlikely to get a completely balanced view on here.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
14,723
21,358
How does this currently work on the Mac and on Windows? What is the best way to implement something like this?
On windows it’s simple, every few weeks there’s a new pop up trying to nag you into using Edge. If you use Teams, it will default to links in Edge, then ignore your preferences after a few updates. If you’re using outlook, it defaults to Edge (system preference setting be damned), and again requires you to choose in the settings. Then an update comes along and blows out that preference.

It’s fun living in the dual world of seeing the teeth gnashing over Apple’s anticompetitive actions here, while at work being beaten over the head by Microsoft’s daily 🤷‍♂️
 
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rorschach

macrumors 68020
Jul 27, 2003
2,275
1,876
Next up: the EU demands Apple allow all these companies to place full-on ads on this screen so their app is “better represented". Maybe the user should also be forced to watch unskippable ads for every browser offered before they’re allowed to make a choice. It’s only fair. /s
 

Fuzzball84

macrumors 68020
Apr 19, 2015
2,146
4,885
It was easy enough for me to switch to Firefox as my default browser here in the USA, and that is without the additional push government mandate provides. How can it be so difficult in the EU?
You're not thinking from an average consumers perspective. A lot of people just either don't care or don't know of other options. There are people who basically don't ever go into the settings App and then just think thats all thats available. This presents a choice in your face to ensure fairness.

Apple have a huge, huge advantage being the makerof the OS and browser. It’s the Microsoft situation of 20 plus years ago all again.
 

rorschach

macrumors 68020
Jul 27, 2003
2,275
1,876
Have you seen what the US is doing to its competitor companies and countries… every country looks after its own.

Can you not see that??
They should just admit that’s what they’re doing then. Politicians who support protectionism in the US will generally (though not always, of course) straight up tell you they’re supporting “America First” policies.
 
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sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,496
19,268
I think the EU was happy when Nokia was the global leader. They also didn't mind BMW trying to force subscription for heated seats. They only have issues when the US companies try to make profit.
I wasn't aware that Renault, Diamler, Iveco, DAF, Scania, Volkswagen, and BMW were American companies.


The European Commission has found that MAN, Volvo/Renault, Daimler, Iveco, and DAF broke EU antitrust rules. These truck makers colluded for 14 years on truck pricing and on passing on the costs of compliance with stricter emission rules. The Commission has imposed a record fine of €2,926,499 000.



The European Commission has found that Scania broke EU antitrust rules. It colluded for 14 years with five other truck manufacturers on truck pricing and on passing on the costs of new technologies to meet stricter emission rules. The Commission has imposed a fine of €880,523,000 on Scania.



The European Commission fined German carmakers Volkswagen and BMW a total of 875 million euros ($1 billion) on Thursday for colluding to curb the use of emissions cleaning technology they had developed.
 
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