Browser Companies Criticize Apple's EU Choice Screen in iOS 17.4

[Wowfunhappy]

For example, Vivaldi CEO Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner notes that Apple's choice screen only appears when iPhone users open Safari

I think this is an under appreciated point—and impressively clever/sneaky on Apple's part.

A user who taps the Safari icon is expecting to get Safari. If they are subsequently presented with a screen that says "would you like to use a different browser instead," the user is likely to respond "uh, no, please just give me Safari like I asked."

By contrast, if the browser choice was presented as part of the initial iOS setup flow (where you are asked to choose between light and dark mode, enable Siri, and so on), users would likely be much more amenable to selecting a different browser.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Hey EU, it's really unfair that I can't use other OS on my iPhone.

Can you make it so the first time I boot up, I've given the choice to download Android, Blackberry, or Palm?

I'm not sure about a choice screen, but I firmly believe Google and others should have the ability to port their operating systems to the iPhone.

You can install Linux on a Mac, but Apple doesn't let iPhone users do that.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I think this is an under-appreciated point. I also think it's impressively clever/sneaky on Apple's part.

A user who taps the Safari icon is expecting to get Safari. If they are subsequently presented with a screen that says "would you like to use a different browser instead," the user is likely to respond "uh, no, please just give me Safari like I was expecting you to."

By contrast, if the browser choice was presented as part of the initial iOS setup flow (where you are asked to choose between light and dark mode, sharing crash reports, and so on), users would likely be much more amenable to selecting a different browser.

Well we all know apple really likes to do everything in their power to encourage the default choice and fight free choice based on merit

 

[switz]

I bought the complete package iPhone with Apple operating system. If I wanted the Android operating system or some other non-major operating system, there are literally thousands of other brands of cell phones ranging from super cheap to the top Samsung to choose from.

Apple has few security issues when compared to the rest of the products out there. Apple has spent billions developing the iPhone and that is why it is successful. The "also rans" want to have free access to an established brand.

I suggest that the dumber than a stone bureaucrates try and deal with their private cash hoards from the bribes and other decision modifying incentives and leave technology to those trained in the fields.Very few if any of these folks ever added value to anything technical, but they can destroy instantly thru inept rules, regulations, fines and taxation.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think this is an under-appreciated point. I also think it's impressively clever/sneaky on Apple's part.

A user who taps the Safari icon is expecting to get Safari. If they are subsequently presented with a screen that says "would you like to use a different browser instead," the user is likely to respond "uh, no, please just give me Safari like I asked."

By contrast, if the browser choice was presented as part of the initial iOS setup flow (where you are asked to choose between light and dark mode, enable Siri, and so on), users would likely be much more amenable to selecting a different browser.

Very few users get that flow nowadays. Case in point, my daughter had a new iPhone two days ago, they just go straight to restore from the old iPhone

Those who want another browser already pick another browser.

 

[nicolas_s]

They are annoying, I agree. But they're mainly annoying due to how the particular website implements them. My personal websites have an unobtrusive banner that only starts collecting anything if clicked. The website works without clicking it.

The fact of the matter is though, before this regulation websites collected what they liked, put whatever cookies they liked, and took what info they liked, and then did with it what they liked. They also gave other unrelated companies the ability to do all the same things.

Maybe thats OK with you but its certainly not OK with me and now it's not a thing. So yes, thank you EU.

Doesn't even mean anything nor make sense even.

Still takes space on the website. In the era of mobile devices, every cm is important and little things like that can ruin the experience because you don't immediately get the content you're looking for, and you have to skip things to get to it.

Those who care about cookies could still delete them or use private mode, and those who don't care could let them. That was the option back then.

But now, I can't even browse the web in private mode because they keep showing up every time.

So, I stopped using private mode and I potentially expose my browser to websites that may not comply and install cookies anyway, instead of using private mode that won't store any cookie in any case.

 

[ApAx]

This is what the EU required of Microsoft a decade ago. Small descriptions were easier to do because it was a webpage on a large screen. The iPhone screen has limited space to present all the options.

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It doesn't matter what Apple does. These companies have bad business models. Their CEOs will always be whingers who run to governments to save their jobs by tilting the playing field towards their goal. If they are so good at innovation, perhaps they should make something new and useful that Apple doesn't already bundle. Governments should not be assisting companies that waste human intellect and economic power by having engineers constantly reinvent the wheel with little to no additional marginal value.

That's very interesting, and fundamentally at odds with the American capitalism ethos. I doubt we will see any government requirement like that here. In this case, Microsoft is a lot like other tech-enabled industries, such as cars. My Volkswagen has a proprietary emergency/crash alert system built in, which I can subscribe to. VW does not have to make Ford's version compatible or show me what Ford offers instead when I buy a VW.

 

[MNGR]

Ok now this is going too far. It’s a selection screen, and it isn’t anticompetitive because Apple’s own product isn’t even at the top spots of the list. Not even Safari has a description. If users want to change their browsers they’ll search for what each does, if they don’t they clearly wouldn’t have switched.
All these competitors are going too far. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.

The EU has concluded that NOTHING Apple does is compliant.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That's very interesting, and fundamentally at odds with the American capitalism ethos. I doubt we will see any government requirement like that here. In this case, Microsoft is a lot like other tech-enabled industries, such as cars. My Volkswagen has a proprietary emergency/crash alert system built in, which I can subscribe to. VW does not have to make Ford's version compatible or show me what Ford offers instead when I buy a VW.

No it isn't at odds at all, if there reasonable and non-discriminatory licensing or frand as some call it we wouldn't enjoy what we enjoy today. And the example you name is exactly the kind of limitation that isn't good for consumers. Having more datapoints improves the service opposed to just getting the data from VAG cars. It is so short sighted to look at things like that, and that is actually what the EU is pretty good at, or has become good at over the years. And naturally they do get it wrong at times....But each for their own is not the capialism ethos, it limits the amount of money you can make...

 

[delsoul]

Is there anything the EU is happy with and not investigating?

This is true. Seems they’re always moaning about something. Wish they would be happy for once.

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

On windows it’s simple, every few weeks there’s a new pop up trying to nag you into using Edge. If you use Teams, it will default to links in Edge, then ignore your preferences after a few updates. If you’re using outlook, it defaults to Edge (system preference setting be damned), and again requires you to choose in the settings. Then an update comes along and blows out that preference.

It’s fun living in the dual world of seeing the teeth gnashing over Apple’s anticompetitive actions here, while at work being beaten over the head by Microsoft’s daily 🤷‍♂️

It doesn't, never once have I gotten a pop up to use Edge..

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

My experience on windows is very different… are you completely sure its not just your companies/ work laptops preferences.

I don't have that issue either, just sounds like an excuse to dig at Microsoft.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It doesn't, never once have I gotten a pop up to use Edge..

Indeed, only time where that happens is when the company administrator enables that. I used to enforce it to ensure all data remained in our domain.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Very few users get that flow nowadays. Case in point, my daughter had a new iPhone two days ago, they just go straight to restore from the old iPhone

Those who want another browser already pick another browser.

But it often asks new questions after you install an update. For example, when dark mode was introduced, they asked everyone if they wanted to enable dark mode.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Still takes space on the website. In the era of mobile devices, every cm is important and little things like that can ruin the experience because you don't immediately get the content you're looking for, and you have to skip things to get to it.

Those who care about cookies could still delete them or use private mode, and those who don't care could let them. That was the option back then.

But now, I can't even browse the web in private mode because they keep showing up every time.

So, I stopped using private mode and I potentially expose my browser to websites that may not comply and install cookies anyway, instead of using private mode that won't store any cookie in any case.

So essentially you just give users a bad experience so they just click accept so they can use all your personal information.

The option back then was you didn’t have a choice. The websites stole your information and sold it to the givers bidder without telling you. Essentially 99% of websites did what Facebook does but secretly

 

[Chazak]

You're not thinking from an average consumers perspective. A lot of people just either don't care or don't know of other options. There are people who basically don't ever go into the settings App and then just think thats all thats available. This presents a choice in your face to ensure fairness.

Apple have a huge, huge advantage being the makerof the OS and browser. It’s the Microsoft situation of 20 plus years ago all again.

The average consumer could not care less about any of this and if you think the EU regulatory authorities care about the average consumer if you think Epic or Spotify cares one iota about smaller developers you have definitely fallen off the ledge. The only market segment they are responding to is the developer community. Smaller developers are merely pawns for the big boys to help them manipulate EU regulators. Understandably, the small guys just want more money and they should get it.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

But it often asks new questions after you install an update. For example, when dark mode was introduced, they asked everyone if they wanted to enable dark mode.

Sure but if you’ve already answered it, and we got that update regarding tbe browsers about a month ago why would it ask again? Now that would be annoying.

If anyone wants to add and default another browser or switch they can do that at any time. Why keep on asking?

 

[Yoshimura]

It’s always insane to me to see so many people on this forum side with the anti-competitive behaviour of the trillion dollar company, rather than basic government regulations that keep these companies in check.

I suppose that’s what you get on a forum specifically dedicated to coverage of one of those companies, but it’s still sad to see.

It’s always insane to me to see so many people always side again trillion dollar companies, rather than simply side with what make more sense.

 

[BGPL]

Apple will never make all of its users, devs, shareholders happy at the same time.

It has never wanted to make the users happy. Making them happy and getting them to buy your products are completely different. It's always been about the bottom line and that will never change.

 

[BGPL]

It's so adorable how the EU thinks they matter in world politics and the global economy.

Well, they've kind of proven they do matter... quite a bit.

 

[MartiNZ]

It doesn't, never once have I gotten a pop up to use Edge..

Indeed. I've never had any issue with Edge and have been using it exclusively since its inception. The only one that annoys me is Google always telling me I should switch to Chrome whenever I visit the site. Conveniently on mobile Edge seems to be detected as Chrome, so it's easier there lol.

As for the story, the EU got us USB C iPhones to go with every other phone around, so they can pretty much do what they like IMO, but complaining now about slow implementation of something like this, when it has taken 16 years to even get this far ... seems a bit hasty. It's great that Apple is starting to give people choice; it was the lack thereof that moved me off Apple for good back when OS X Lion came out. But it is going to take time for sure. Good to keep them honest, but they might have to lower their expectations as Apple is in the specific business of avoiding choice.

 

[nicolas_s]

So essentially you just give users a bad experience so they just click accept so they can use all your personal information.

The option back then was you didn’t have a choice. The websites stole your information and sold it to the givers bidder without telling you. Essentially 99% of websites did what Facebook does but secretly

What information if we use private navigation? It doesn't store any cookie on the browser when enabled. If you're talking about the IP address, it doesn't have anything to do with cookies.

 

[I7guy]

It has never wanted to make the users happy. Making them happy and getting them to buy your products are completely different. It's always been about the bottom line and that will never change.

IMO, everything else being equal an unhappy user wont buy your products. (At least for companies that produce consumer discretionary products where there is a choice)

 

[Sophisticatednut]

What information if we use private navigation? It doesn't store any cookie on the browser when enabled. If you're talking about the IP address, it doesn't have anything to do with cookies.

Private navigation? They just stored cookies, tracked you between websites, used fingerprinting techniques to create grey profiles. You know when Apple have the “ask websites to not track you” it was just ignored as no legal consequences existed.

They literally didn’t need any consent from you.

Google agrees to delete incognito search data of millions of Chrome users

Google agrees to delete incognito search data of millions of Chrome users - Tech giant to update disclosures about data collected in private browsing mode

www.msn.com

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Sure but if you’ve already answered it, and we got that update regarding tbe browsers about a month ago why would it ask again? Now that would be annoying.

If anyone wants to add and default another browser or switch they can do that at any time. Why keep on asking?

It shouldn't keep on asking. It should have asked once after iOS 17.4 was installed—but at setup time, not the time when you launch Safari.