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planteater

Cancelled
Feb 11, 2020
892
1,680
Meanwhile they are euthanizing people's pets without consent and the police is being violent towards those who protest.

No. Freaking. Thanks.
I saw a video of the bags they were throwing cats into so they had to fear before they offed them. Horrible. Unthinkable what they are doing.
 
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Keymaster

macrumors regular
Dec 15, 2003
139
559
The life of whom? The government? Because surely you aren’t talking about those being locked inside their apartments without food or medication over a virus that has mutated to be less potent than the flu.

Just so it's clear, COVID is not less potent than the flu, it is both more contagious and more deadly. The omicron variant was less deadly, but the new version of omicron appear to have features related to delta, which is pretty bad. COVID has been killing upwards of 20% of the elderly that are infected, depending on the age group. And it's killed over a million Americans in two years, while the flu might kill 50,000 in that time, maybe up to 100,000 in a really, really bad flu year. The false information spread about COVID is why so many people have died, without that things may not have been so bad.

China is taking lockdowns to the extreme, and it's not clear that will save them from the new versions of the virus that are so much more contagious. The Chinese people are getting really ticked off at the lockdowns too, and justifiably since they really are draconian (and nothing at all like what happened here). It could spark more severe unrest in the nation, it's really ripe for major confrontations if the people turn against the government, especially since the government is willing to beat the people down in response. My wife is Chinese, so we are hoping it doesn't come to that.
 

jeffpeng

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2021
227
359
from what i gathered its a logistic thing, india is known for bureaucratic red tape for any business and bribing is almost a formality. apple is doing the bare minimum in investment so they are not hit by the tariff subjected by the indian gov't, that is also why you only see base models being produced, since in order to produce pro models, apple suppliers would have to import materials in order to sustain the manufacturing, such materials are not readily available nor reliable within India itself.
Thank you!
 

jeffpeng

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2021
227
359
In general: I think people underestimate how much the "western" economy is intertwined with China. In fact: you can hardly over-estimate it. It would take decades to untangle this, and at no small cost which I am not confident the typical customer will be willing to pay. Plus this would require a coordinated effort of multiple nations, including, but not limited to, the US and the EU. I am also not seeing that happening unless something as drastic as the current Russia-Ukraine situation is happening. And even with that the "West" has a hard time forming a uniform response.

Companies such as Apple are in a unique position as they could probably afford cutting ties with China to some degree. German automobile manufacturers are in the same position, for example. Still: this would cause not only huge profit margin losses, which would have to explained to share holders, but also beg the question to why they are doing that. Making such a decision puts you on the political playing field, and as long as there is no general consensus that you are doing the right thing there is nothing to gain for those companies. So for this to happen a public anti-China mindset would have to establish itself first. And I'm not really seeing that, either.
 

msp3

Suspended
May 9, 2015
489
608
Crazy country. Do they expect to lock down their borders for tourism forever as well? Like … Covid will never go away. Everyone should know this by now.
After the past two years, has no one learned anything? It's never been about coronavirus, it's clearly not about coronavirus anymore, and this is no different then what The Party does to their own people on a regular basis. Remember what the communist Chinese government did to the Uighurs (that Apple and every virtue-signaling firm implicitly supported)? Internment in concentration camps, arrests and imprisonment without charges or trial, "re-education through labor", organ harvesting, forced sterilization, etc. All of that was just a dry run for what the regime is going to do to the rest of the population, you see it now in the wealthiest, most cosmopolitan part of China: The state and their enforcers' “boot stamping on a human face—forever”.
 

ilikewhey

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2014
3,595
4,640
nyc upper east
In general: I think people underestimate how much the "western" economy is intertwined with China. In fact: you can hardly over-estimate it. It would take decades to untangle this, and at no small cost which I am not confident the typical customer will be willing to pay. Plus this would require a coordinated effort of multiple nations, including, but not limited to, the US and the EU. I am also not seeing that happening unless something as drastic as the current Russia-Ukraine situation is happening. And even with that the "West" has a hard time forming a uniform response.

Companies such as Apple are in a unique position as they could probably afford cutting ties with China to some degree. German automobile manufacturers are in the same position, for example. Still: this would cause not only huge profit margin losses, which would have to explained to share holders, but also beg the question to why they are doing that. Making such a decision puts you on the political playing field, and as long as there is no general consensus that you are doing the right thing there is nothing to gain for those companies. So for this to happen a public anti-China mindset would have to establish itself first. And I'm not really seeing that, either.
the board of apple would be burn alive by the shareholders if apple decided to cut ties with china for political reasons.
 
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Lucas Curious

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2020
596
768
I work at a hospital. I had to go in every day throughout 2020 and 2021. Pre vaccine. Now that I’m vaccinated, boosted, and got omicron and recovered, I’m trying not to really worry about it anymore.
my family members work in the top 4 USA hospitals. They work in the rough units (ICU). two of them got the original virus and it was rough but they refused the boosters at all costs. Hospitals made deadlines for boosters and threatened job loss but the workers are going against boosters and they keep extending deadline because they need the workers. Ive been told from the beginning that the people suffering and worse were mainly elderly and fat diabetics. When the CDC data got published, sure enough there is a high percentage of Diabetics on the statistics. I didn't like how news never talked about actual detailed statistics and people fell for it. I myself also got teh original bad version of the virus and took it like a champ but for months before getting it, I was working out outside at the beach every other day. I truly believe that eating healthy, exercise and sunlight could prevent many of these numbers. I never got vaccine and need will but I did double down on the health lifestyle
 

Madhatter32

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2020
1,458
2,916
Apple's continued heavy involvement and reliance on China is becoming untenable. It has "kowtowed" to the CCP while pushing back on other matters against its own government. This is beginning to receive serious scrutiny and I think Apple should reevaluate its priorities immediately for the sake of its own business if not over concerns for human rights and individual liberty. The risks of Apple's continued allegiance and dependence on a rogue regime such as the CCP continues to grow by the day.

 
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jeffpeng

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2021
227
359
the board of apple would be burn alive by the shareholders if apple decided to cut ties with china for political reasons.
My point, exactly. For this to actually be a possibility there would have to exist actual socio-political pressure to do that.
 
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planteater

Cancelled
Feb 11, 2020
892
1,680
Apple is tethered to China in many ways for obvious logistical and historical reasons. That can't and won't change quickly, but even as Apple evaluates ways to diversify it's supply and manufacturing chain, this must be a wakeup call that they must accelerate.

Nobody benefits from reliance on any one jurisdiction for the bulk of production. We are seeing just how much risk is associated with over-reliance on any state. I'd like to see more involvement from countries like India, and perhaps, movement into Mexico and/or South America over the next dozen years of so, plus of course, production in the US where possible, component or assembly.
 

jeffpeng

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2021
227
359
Nobody benefits from reliance on any one jurisdiction for the bulk of production. We are seeing just how much risk is associated with over-reliance on any state. I'd like to see more involvement from countries like India, and perhaps, movement into Mexico and/or South America over the next dozen years of so, plus of course, production in the US where possible, component or assembly.
Agreed, wholeheartedly, but who's going to pay for that? That's the actual problem with that. For this to work there need to be either political pressure to do so, or real market incentives. Plus, considering how short qualified labor is not only in the US, but also in many parts of Europe, there has to be the question if we could even do it - even if all those other problems were somehow solved.

The point is: as long as it is the financially sound choice to keep production in China Apple and any other company that has its wits about it will. The only ways to fix this is by either putting very high tariffs on anything that touches China, which, again, would only work if it was an internationally coordinated effort (which would have wide ranging diplomatic repercussions), or you would be considered socially "tainted" if doing business with China because public opinion had shifted into an anti-China mindset.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
Just so it's clear, COVID is not less potent than the flu, it is both more contagious and more deadly. The omicron variant was less deadly, but the new version of omicron appear to have features related to delta, which is pretty bad. COVID has been killing upwards of 20% of the elderly that are infected, depending on the age group. And it's killed over a million Americans in two years, while the flu might kill 50,000 in that time, maybe up to 100,000 in a really, really bad flu year. The false information spread about COVID is why so many people have died, without that things may not have been so bad.

China is taking lockdowns to the extreme, and it's not clear that will save them from the new versions of the virus that are so much more contagious. The Chinese people are getting really ticked off at the lockdowns too, and justifiably since they really are draconian (and nothing at all like what happened here). It could spark more severe unrest in the nation, it's really ripe for major confrontations if the people turn against the government, especially since the government is willing to beat the people down in response. My wife is Chinese, so we are hoping it doesn't come to that.
So much mis/disinformation in this one post it’s unbelievable, no wonder mass psychosis is full steam ahead.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
After the past two years, has no one learned anything? It's never been about coronavirus, it's clearly not about coronavirus anymore, and this is no different then what The Party does to their own people on a regular basis. Remember what the communist Chinese government did to the Uighurs (that Apple and every virtue-signaling firm implicitly supported)? Internment in concentration camps, arrests and imprisonment without charges or trial, "re-education through labor", organ harvesting, forced sterilization, etc. All of that was just a dry run for what the regime is going to do to the rest of the population, you see it now in the wealthiest, most cosmopolitan part of China: The state and their enforcers' “boot stamping on a human face—forever”.
People still believing this is about a virus 🤣
 

0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
Crazy country. Do they expect to lock down their borders for tourism forever as well? Like … Covid will never go away. Everyone should know this by now.
China is not able to render enough ICU beds for 1.4 billion people, and since socialism does not allow scarce social resources to be dedicated to the highest bidders, the only way to ensure equity and human rights is to make sure that not too many people will get infected.

The right to live and the right to remain healthy is the most important human right. No one should trample on other peoples human rights.
 
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0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
The life of whom? The government? Because surely you aren’t talking about those being locked inside their apartments without food or medication over a virus that has mutated to be less potent than the flu.

Of the elderlies, the pregnant, the kids, the weak, and the vulnerable.

Also, it has been discovered that COVID has long term post-Covid syndromes that may affect men’s fertility, etc. It’s unreported in the West, but if you go read international coverage or medical journals, you will know. COVID has lasting effects, especially if you have coexisting conditions.
 

0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
I don't think many of you understand that when they say "Lockdown" they mean: You can't leave your home period, for any reason. That means if you run out of food, you starve. If you have a heart attack, you die. The Chinese authorities don't mess around.
That’s disinformation, I went to Shanghai Pudong International Airport for international flights during a Shanghai city-wide lockdown. You just have to get special permits for exemption.
 

0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
Given how China abuses human rights regularly its a LITTE ironic they are soooooo “Concerned“ with a few people getting sick or dying from their virus.

You can’t apply the US definition of human rights abuse because that’s just a tool for seeking America’s interest aboard. It’s an influence operation and a disinformation campaign. It’s objective is to subvert the Chinese government and cause disruptions to the BRI initiative in the Middle East.

I‘ve yet to hear anything the American government has said that is actually beneficial to China’s development and supports China’s interests.

It’s all hypocrisy.
 

sorgo †

Cancelled
Feb 16, 2016
2,871
7,046
Of the elderlies, the pregnant, the kids, the weak, and the vulnerable.

Also, it has been discovered that COVID has long term post-Covid syndromes that may affect men’s fertility, etc. It’s unreported in the West, but if you go read international coverage or medical journals, you will know. COVID has lasting effects, especially if you have coexisting conditions.
Still greater than a 99% chance of survival in even the most “at-risk” groups. Which, by the way, doesn’t include kids.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to lay off the CNN.

Also I’m not going to entertain long-covid fear-mongering from the same people who couldn’t care less about ethics in science or medicine and potential short- and long-term side effects induced by the “vaccine,” such as its disruptive effects on the female menstrual cycle and fertility.

I’ll take my chances with a virus with a nearly 100% rate of survival, regardless of its potential lasting effects, and you and many others will apparently take their chances with both the virus and the jab—since the latter doesn’t seem to affect transmission of/inoculate against the former.
 
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0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
Just so it's clear, COVID is not less potent than the flu, it is both more contagious and more deadly. The omicron variant was less deadly, but the new version of omicron appear to have features related to delta, which is pretty bad. COVID has been killing upwards of 20% of the elderly that are infected, depending on the age group. And it's killed over a million Americans in two years, while the flu might kill 50,000 in that time, maybe up to 100,000 in a really, really bad flu year. The false information spread about COVID is why so many people have died, without that things may not have been so bad.

China is taking lockdowns to the extreme, and it's not clear that will save them from the new versions of the virus that are so much more contagious. The Chinese people are getting really ticked off at the lockdowns too, and justifiably since they really are draconian (and nothing at all like what happened here). It could spark more severe unrest in the nation, it's really ripe for major confrontations if the people turn against the government, especially since the government is willing to beat the people down in response. My wife is Chinese, so we are hoping it doesn't come to that.

People will not “turn” against the government, worst scenario is people would refuse to comply and force the government to make a policy change or render more aid and resources.
 

sorgo †

Cancelled
Feb 16, 2016
2,871
7,046
the right to remain healthy
There is no such thing—health is a personal responsibility and only the thickest of fools (apparently a lot of people) would trust the government with such a responsibility. Teach your children how to eat healthy, to get exercise, sunlight, and fresh air, good hygiene, and basic survival skills. Knowing how to take care of oneself and listen to one’s own body is far more effective than any draconian, corrosive “public health” ordinance.
 
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