COVID/Coronavirus non-political DISCUSSION thread

[A.Goldberg]

This may help ...

How Often Will You Need to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine?

How long COVID-19 vaccines offer immunity may change as the virus evolves. It's likely that annual COVID-19 shots may be the norm.

www.verywellhealth.com

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Key Takeaways​

• The Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines could offer immunity against COVID-19 for up to two to three years. However, they will most likely have to be administered annually.
• The Johnson & Johnson, Moderna, and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines will likely protect against current variants of COVID-19.
• Immunity wanes as antibody levels drop in response to a lack of use.
• Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech have launched preliminary studies of booster shots.

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The CDC is pretty much useless at this stage...
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We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated. What we do know is that COVID-19 has caused very serious illness and death for a lot of people. If you get COVID-19, you also risk giving it to loved ones who may get very sick. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine is a safer choice.

Experts are working to learn more about both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity. CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.
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Seeing the technology between the types of vaccines and method of testing, I would much rather get the J&J version than the Moderna or Pfizer version. That however is MPO.

How can you expect the CDC to know exactly how long naturally acquire or vaccine immunity will last when you haven’t had the time to make such observations.

That’s not even the responsibility of the CDC, if you want to pin it on a government agency you should be looking at the FDA. But it’s really the pharmaceutical companies making the best guess of the duration of immunity of their respective vaccines based on their knowledge of the technologies used.

I think it’s fair if you want to stick with the tried and true technology of J&J’s DNA vaccine, but it’s really doing the same thing as the mRNA vaccines. DNA just gets transcribed into mRNA which then gets translated into proteins. mRNA vaccines just skip the step of having to be converted from DNA to mRNA. So mechanistically speaking, mRNA vaccines are simpler. The reality is whether you get any of these vaccines you should be fine and they are all very beneficial. Tens of millions of Americans have been vaccinated and we don’t see people dropping dead right and left from them. And I will preemptively mention that long term effects of vaccines really are not a thing considering you’re not being dosed daily and it’s mechanism of action is completely different than small molecule drugs.

 

[dk001]

How can you expect the CDC to know exactly how long naturally acquire or vaccine immunity will last when you haven’t had the time to make such observations.

That’s not even the responsibility of the CDC, if you want to pin it on a government agency you should be looking at the FDA. But it’s really the pharmaceutical companies making the best guess of the duration of immunity of their respective vaccines based on their knowledge of the technologies used.

I think it’s fair if you want to stick with the tried and true technology of J&J’s DNA vaccine, but it’s really doing the same thing as the mRNA vaccines. DNA just gets transcribed into mRNA which then gets translated into proteins. mRNA vaccines just skip the step of having to be converted from DNA to mRNA. So mechanistically speaking, mRNA vaccines are simpler. The reality is whether you get any of these vaccines you should be fine and they are all very beneficial. Tens of millions of Americans have been vaccinated and we don’t see people dropping dead right and left from them. And I will preemptively mention that long term effects of vaccines really are not a thing considering you’re not being dosed daily and it’s mechanism of action is completely different than small molecule drugs.

Thanks!
I agree with all you said however when I look at the tech and the scope (area) of testing, I’ll stick where I feel most comfortable. Part of my issue is the lack of actionable information (that I have access to). As for being dosed with COVID daily, these vaccines do not confir immunity. You can still get it although the effects should be significantly reduced post vaccination.

Good news is that the J&J option is now available in my area (CVS notice). Will be getting that shortly.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Thanks!
I agree with all you said however when I look at the tech and the scope (area) of testing, I’ll stick where I feel most comfortable. Part of my issue is the lack of actionable information (that I have access to). As for being dosed with COVID daily, these vaccines do not confir immunity. You can still get it although the effects should be significantly reduced post vaccination.

Good news is that the J&J option is now available in my area (CVS notice). Will be getting that shortly.

Well, to be clear pertaining to the original strain of the virus, Pfizer and Moderna do demonstrate reduce your individual chance of infection by 95%, which is effectively immunity. As for the idea that immune/vaccinated people can spread the virus, this is highly unlikely IMPO given how every other vaccine I can think of. It’s possible if infected person sneezed, a vaccinated person breathed in the virus, and then breathed in the face of an unvaccinated person- sure maybe that could spread it. But that’s a bit extreme and the chances of spread/infection largely depend on the amount of exposure and the contagious individual’s viral load. If you look at Israel’s data, it’s pretty clear vaccination has dramatically slowed the number of infections/spread.

J&J’s efficacy is a bit less- ~70%, though there are a number of count founders.
1) Would the efficiency be higher with a different dosing protocol (ie 2 doses)?
2) The J&J trial occurred later than Pfizer as Moderna and involved patients exposed to strains of the virus
3) The prevalence of the virus was much higher during the J&J trials compared to the others.

That said, even in instances where a vaccinated person becomes infected, no severe cases or deaths occur. That in itself is an extremely important outcome and in reality the most important outcome.

J&J has just had to destroy 15m doses due to a manufacturing error by one of their contractors, a company with a pretty poor record on numerous fronts. This is just another instance in a long string of problems for them on the production end. So you might be waiting a bit longer for it.

The problem with DNA vaccines is that they are much more complicated to develop and manufacture. mRNA is a game changer because of its quick and easily development and production.

I think it’s also important to understand is that vaccines are really just emulating the mechanism a viral infection minus the pathogenicity. This is something your body is doing 24hrs a day, 365 days a year, unless you have the misfortune of immune suppression. The body is constantly fighting off pathogens and once the immune system stops working, people are dead within several days. That’s why long term health risks really are not associated with vaccines and the adverse events that do occur are incredibly rare.

I have to respect people’s individual autotomy, even if it’s misguided in my opinion. I just think it’s important to consider for most people in the world, getting vaccinated in reality has much less do to with personal safety and everything to do with the health of people around me. In my early 30’s and in good health, if I get sick my chances of dying or severe illness are minuscule. But with my parents in their 60’s that risk becomes a bit higher, and for my grandfather in his 90’s, he has at least a 20% risk of death if infected. And then there are also people who might need to hold off on vaccination- such as pregnant women (that’s still being assessed). While a young mother is likely to survive the infection just fine, there is a higher rate of miscarriage in infected pregnant women.

Despite working in a hospital, somehow I have avoided COVID, at least according to antibody testing (not the most reliable). I want life to get back to normal with the minimal amount of detriment to society. I also would be horrified to be infected and to risk infecting my at risk patients, family, neighbors, etc. I’m willing to take the minuscule risk of getting the vaccine for the greater good. The less people are vaccinated, the longer this drags on, and the greater the risk of major mutations that will render the vaccines totally useless.

 

[pshufd]

The CDC just put out their recommendations on who should get it today. COVID is going around in Boston and there's something else going around that's not COVID and not flu.

 

[poorcody]

The 2023 version of the vaccine is now rolling out in the UK and the US, with more countries on the way. I hope those in the MR community who get the shot will share their experiences again. I will, in any case.

My neighbor across the street just got Covid for the very first time ever (that she knows of, of course). She said it's been like a bad cold. Imagine I will be getting a booster this fall.

 

[pshufd]

I just asked my son on what he's getting and he will be getting the Flu shot (required by his workplace), and he hasn't heard on COVID booster requirement yet but he's likely to get it anyways. He's always up on variants and the shots.

 

[4sallypat]

The CDC just put out their recommendations on who should get it today. COVID is going around in Boston and there's something else going around that's not COVID and not flu.

Yes, there is something going around making you sick for a week at a time - my wife has it.

It's not RSV, covid nor the flu according to the doctor so it's some type of viral bug...

 

[pshufd]

Yes, there is something going around making you sick for a week at a time - my wife has it.

It's not RSV, covid nor the flu according to the doctor so it's some type of viral bug...

Our daughter had it for 2 days. Low fever (99+), aches, tiredness. She has respiratory symptoms but is generally fine. She got it from school and she's the only one in the household that got it. There's a thread on it in r/Massachusetts and some people have it for 2 days and some have it for 2 weeks. Lots of people tested for COVID of course and they tested negative.

 

[maflynn]

I'll not be getting the booster, if I can help it.

Covid has weakened to a point where its better to get the illness then taking the vaccine imo.
Myocarditis and Covid-19 vaccines: should you be worried?

We look at the link between myocarditis and Covid-19 vaccines, including which age groups are at a higher risk.

 

[Kung]

I'll not be getting the booster, if I can help it.

Covid has weakened to a point where its better to get the illness then taking the vaccine imo.
Myocarditis and Covid-19 vaccines: should you be worried?

Agreed. I ran into opposition from people who heard me say that within the first year of COVID...but none of them were taking into account the fact that myself/my family had COVID 2x by the end of August 2020; and 3x by the end of March 2021. Regardless of how people thought it would affect me...I knew how it DID affect me and my family, and I knew @ that point a vaccine wasn't really necessary as we had a serious amount of natural immunity.

I did end up getting vaccinated but ONLY because I was told I had to...and even the doctor administering the shot said, "I'm only giving this to you because your job says you have to get it." LOL

 

[poorcody]

Covid has weakened to a point where its better to get the illness then taking the vaccine imo.
Myocarditis and Covid-19 vaccines: should you be worried?

The risk of Covid is still far greater than the risk of a vaccine side-effect, by a wide margin.

Remember, mutations don't always make the virus weaker, they can make it stronger. The future of Covid is still unknown.

 

[poorcody]

3. My doctor actually sent off our blood as a 'baseline' for an antibody test...and found out that of all of her patients (including vaccinated), our antibody levels were far higher than everyone else's.

Antibodies to Covid only last a few weeks, maybe a few months in most people. The long-term immunity comes from T-cells and such. Antibodies are generated when exposed, so if there are antibody levels that are consistently high in her patients that would indicate a lot of ongoing Covid exposures...

 

[Kung]

Antibodies to Covid only last a few weeks, maybe a few months in most people. The long-term immunity comes from T-cells and such. Antibodies are generated when exposed, so if there are antibody levels that are consistently high in her patients that would indicate a lot of ongoing Covid exposures...

Which I'm 100% sure was the case. (At that time, I was an essential employee on an Army basic training post, and we trained a LOT of Soldiers from foreign countries, many of which were early hot spots for COVID.)

 

[poorcody]

Essential employee on an Army basic training post, and we trained a LOT of Soldiers from foreign countries, many of which were early hot spots for COVID.

Interesting... your continual exposure probably makes your immune system super-strong against Covid. What is the saying? "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."

I appreciate your service and sacrifice.

 

[Kung]

Interesting... your continual exposure probably makes your immune system super-strong against Covid. What is the saying? "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."

I appreciate your service and sacrifice.

Thanks for the appreciation. And yeah, where I work now, actually, COVID is making the rounds again, and yet my family and I are just fine (so far *knock on wood* lol), likely due to the previously mentioned immunity. Of course, we do exercise the normal precautions.

 

[maflynn]

The risk of Covid is still far greater than the risk of a vaccine side-effect, by a wide margin.

Tell that to my sister-in-law who died (after getting vaccinated). This hits way to close to me

Edited for clarification

 

[Kung]

Tell that to my sister-in-law who died. This hits way to close to me

You have my sincere condolences, Mike. 😢

 

[maflynn]

You have my sincere condolences, Mike. 😢

Thanks, it devastated my wife, because it came out of the blue.

 

[Kung]

Thanks, it devastated my wife, because it came out of the blue.

Oh, I'm sure. It's very easy to stand on ideology (and I'm speaking primarily about myself, to be sure) concerning COVID and vaccines and the like....right up until people you know personally suffer long COVID or lose their lives or loved ones. We (again, I count myself as chief of sinners, as the saying goes) have to remember that *real* people are behind the viewpoints and statistics we like to throw around.

 

[Gregg2]

I'll stick with the CDC's recommendations.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Covid seems to have been talked about less over the past year but I am finding a few people I know have had it in recent weeks. They all seem to have suffered worse with it this time around, including a friend of mine who had 4 days in bed and his daughter (18) was admitted to hospital with breathing difficulties. She has had Covid twice before and didn't have many symptoms previously. I think this winter we are going to be hearing about it more and more.

 

[Gregg2]

I finally got COVID last month. I'm pretty sure I contracted it in an airport food court. I had not been sick in several years, and can't remember having the flu in the last decade. I'll be seeing my doctor for a regular check up at the end of the month. If he doesn't have some reason for me to not get the latest vaccine, I'll get is as soon as the waiting period for recovery is up.

 

[Kung]

Yes, there is something going around making you sick for a week at a time - my wife has it.

It's not RSV, covid nor the flu according to the doctor so it's some type of viral bug...

Agreed. Coworker and a ton of other people where I work were dealing with COVID. I felt like crap for a day or two and ran a very low-grade fever...but that was it. Tested negative for COVID, so it's some viral thingamabob.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

My wife refuses to take the COVID-19 shots, but I did take the first shot in 2021. She contracted COVID-19 that year, and I did not. However, the only symptoms she had were mild tiredness, and slight runny nose. She had to travel from Alaska to Washington State, so she used one of the COVID test kits sold at the local supermarket, and tested positive, while I tested negative but felt sick for a week (very tired, body ache, and runny nose). We were laughing about it, because I had all the symptoms while she did not.

Maybe Sweden was right about COVID-19 and building immunity to it?

 

[Linkbill]

I still can’t believe that I never caught this infection. Never say never though. 😄